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Old 02-06-2008, 04:01 PM   #41
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blackwater tank support questions

Before I go cutting the new angle iron for my blackwater tank support I'd like to 'ask the experts' a few... notice in this photo how the support doesn't reach all the way across to rest on the 'skid plate'. Is this to facilitate removal of the tank (with its supports)? (Seems like it would be stronger to have it rest on the skid plate, but I don't wanna go changing stuff if it ain't correct to be doin' so..)

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I can just as easily make the new angle reach all the way across (stronger) but not if it will make removal a pain, ya? Also note in the photo the little triangle shim-type-thing within the old support angle iron. ??? Maybe this helps keep the tank pan from sliding around?? Should I add this into my new support iron? It might also keep the tank slightly raised up off the support to avoid corrosion? boy, those AS engineers musta been smokin' sump'n when they designed this puppy... opinions, as always, appreciated..
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Old 02-15-2008, 02:37 PM   #42
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Slightly off subject sorry, but can the gray water be routed to the black tank in a 1970 safari landyacht rear bath? zz
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Old 02-15-2008, 02:53 PM   #43
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do you have the plastic-formed bath parts taken out? if so you'll notice the grey plumbing from the shower makes a circuitous route to join up with the sink, then they terminate just aft of the black dump valve. sending grey water to the black tank will fill up your black tank REALLY fast and doesn't seem advisable. a better solution is to get a dump CAP that has a male garden hose outlet. this will enable you to leave the dump valve CLOSED, hook a short garden hose to the cap (which stays on) and send the grey water to a 'blue boy' type portable wheeled tank, which you can dump at will.
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Old 02-16-2008, 03:15 PM   #44
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Sounds like the way to go, thanks.zz
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Old 03-03-2008, 02:54 PM   #45
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Update: 3/3/08

-been a while, made some progress...

-one of the best things about renovating your Airstream is just how EDUCATIONAL the whole experience is. that and how doing it yourself allows you to really take ownership of the vessel. you really get to know it and learn a lot about yourself and what kind of challenges you can meet.. for example, I haven't done any welding since college sculpture class..around '76 maybe?... and upon learning that prof welders have to charge you a couple hundred to come out (which I totally understand) I decided to give it a shot. my 'stream buddy Jim Clark loaned me his Lincoln 110v mig and lo and behold, I did it. here's a shot of the old rusted-off blacktank support tab and the pretty new POR'ed one I welded on:

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after salvaging some really nice 1/4" galvanized angle-iron (bleachers being torn down) I started fitting the new supports in (as opposed to just drilling holes first) and noticed that in the fit-up the black tank actually stood a bit higher than where the bottom edge of the new floor will sit. well, that would be a problem. so I had to go back and cut into the new angle iron supports (to lower them as much as possible) and drill the holes as high up as possible to drop the supports down a bit. here you can see where I first thought the hole would go (lower sharpie-mark, below the actual hole) and where it needed to actually be drilled to drop the tank down a bit:

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these will be secured with 3/8 galvanized bolts and self-locking nuts:

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here you can see how this lowered the tank level a quarter inch more:

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clever arrangement with the bolted-in supports allowing the black tank to be dropped out for servicing/maintenance... to get the tank to sit at the proper height I also took my mini-grinder and shaved down the streetside "risers" that are built into the blacktank styrofoam pad which the tank sits upon:

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the blacktank tray was a bit corroded but still servicable so I MarineCleaned it and sprayed it down with Metal Ready prior to coating with POR-15:

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next up I'll be getting the proper closet flange for the SeaLand toilet and using my luan floor templates to determine exactly where the toilet hole needs to be cut out of the floor....stay tuned...
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Old 03-03-2008, 02:59 PM   #46
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oh, and that last picture above shows the new outrigger cross-pieces I welded on (salvaged from the one viable former tank support angle iron) that the lower panel and bellypan are riveted into. I gotta get myself some credit for all that welding,ya?? (professional welders may cringe in horror, but I'm downright proud of meself! man, looking back over this thread its easy to forget just how NASTY it was under there! something about that glossy POR just makes it all better... ;-)
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Old 03-03-2008, 03:51 PM   #47
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Rick,

Nice job with the welder. I've found in many cases that it's cheaper to purchase the tool and develop the skill rather than pay a professional, and you'll have the tool and the skill when it's over. (There are some things worth paying for, though. Sanding drywall joints comes to mind.)
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Old 03-04-2008, 03:37 AM   #48
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Good job! It looks very neat.

SIU Bound
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Old 03-04-2008, 08:37 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PizzaChop
...There are some things worth paying for, though. Sanding drywall joints comes to mind...
Yes, you do it once and prove you can do it [taking 5 times as long] and you never, ever have the temptation to do it again...

Rick, nice work on the welding. I'm about to buy the machine and teach myself. Maybe InsideOut and I can compare the learning experience!

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Old 03-04-2008, 09:26 AM   #50
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I gotta thank Jim Clark again since he not only loaned me the great little Lincoln 3200HD mig welder, but let me view a basic mig welding dvd that got me up to speed on mig vs. stick etc. In it the instructor keeps saying "watch the edges of your puddle"... good advice in more than one aspect of life it seems ;-) I'm stuck waiting to get yalls opinion on exactly WHERE the blacktank flange sits on/in/above the subfloor, so if'n you wanna chime in here:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f444...ing-40150.html

I'll probably ask a mod to move that question/ans over to this thread to add more info along this line... thanks!
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Old 03-04-2008, 10:54 AM   #51
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Thumbs up

Rick,
Thanks for the insight on what I have to look forward to . Maybe I missed it , but what thickness of plywood is necessary for replacement?
Great looking job and a terrific job on the documentation.
Loren
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Old 03-04-2008, 11:30 AM   #52
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Rick,
You are doing a great job. I have our bathroom gutted in our 69 31'. I have printed up all your notes. I am sure some of your problems will help my hubby get it all back together. Our black tank pan was totally rotted, we had to have a new one built ($45). We also had to order a new black tank as ours was cracked around the vent pipe ($260). Guess what the new tank is really black. We are puting in a new hotwater tank, as I don't want to have to ever ever take the bathroom apart again. I haven't bought our POR15 yet to do the beams after we sand all the rust off. Keep up the good work. We are having to wait until the weather gets better as we have to work outside. Thanks for all the great pictures and info.
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Old 03-04-2008, 12:05 PM   #53
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-Silverback: I think it may vary from year to year, but in my '69 the OEM plywood was 3/4" thick and I'm replacing with same (BC Exterior) after applying 3 coats of "hybrid" polyurethane (ala Aerowood, where you mix all the mis-matched cans of poly you have lying around and slap 'em on)..

-CJ: as I dis-mantled (and because my biz is photog) I shot digital photos oF EVERYTHING, even things I thought I might 'remember' later... and now I'm enjoying posting shots of the entire 'phase 2' (rebuilding instead of dismantling) as a way of giving back, passing it on, since I never would have tackled this proj without the previous threads of prior Metal Gurus..
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Old 03-04-2008, 03:00 PM   #54
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fotochop,
Thanks, ours is a '69 Overlander. So, it was really interesting to see your progress.
We have been to N.O. twice . That was before Katrina. Plan to get back some other time.
Was the only exterior metal removed , the pan?
Loren
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Old 03-04-2008, 03:59 PM   #55
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Flanges make me scared...

Ok, I'll try this again, since I posted this in a separate thread hoping "maybe someone will know this right off and I can get to work on it" but that little mini-thread must be a forum faux-pas and it's probably lost in cyberspace somewhere so I'll ask the question again in this WELL-ESTABLISHED thread..

here's my deal. my current black water tank has a flange that is extremely well attached sticking out of it. I believe this is part of the original toilet flange (toilet is a SeaLand model 910). here it is:

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I'm thinking maybe this needs to come OFF the tank and be replaced with something like a current plastic, non-rusting floor flange like the one I bought today, which fits the toilet perfectly (and has a nice foam gasket, not shown):

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Does that sound correct? If so, ugh. That flange on the tank is WELL STUCK to the tank. The new flange looks like it would fit inside the tank, with the old one removed. ??? If you wanna cut me some slack here,consider what a mess this whole thing was when I started on it:

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any and all opinions, no matter how harebrained, will be considered...
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Old 03-04-2008, 04:39 PM   #56
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Rick,

On my '67 the flange threaded into a fitting on the top of the tank. The plywood was sandwiched between the the flange and the tank. I am now using a new tank with a rubber grommet and a flange like the one in your picture. They make a special wrench to turn out the old flange in your picture. You might be able to rent or borrow one from a good plumbing supply store.
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Old 03-04-2008, 04:56 PM   #57
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thanks, caravanner, that's what I needed to know. It looks like a 'spanner' wrench is what's needed to remove the old flange, as it has two notches opposite each other, so I'll try to locate one of those. The new flange fits the toilet perfectly (the old one didn't) so I think i'll be using the new..gracias
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Old 03-04-2008, 05:31 PM   #58
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Cut a rectangle of 1/4" thick plastic-metal-hardwood rectangle just wide enough to fit across the two notches in the toilet flange. Thickness of the appropriate corners should be trimmed to about 7/64ths to fit tightly in the notches. You can then turn the toilet flange out of the tank using this inexpensive rectangle as a "spanner" tool.

I don't recall exactly, but I think the threads are 2-1/2" standard PVC pipe thread, per the test item in this post: http://www.airforums.com/forums/523734-post19.html You have to replace the toilet flange with a threaded fitting.

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Old 03-04-2008, 10:39 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ of Okla
Rick,
You are doing a great job. I have our bathroom gutted in our 69 31'. I have printed up all your notes. I am sure some of your problems will help my hubby get it all back together. Our black tank pan was totally rotted, we had to have a new one built ($45). We also had to order a new black tank as ours was cracked around the vent pipe ($260). Guess what the new tank is really black. We are puting in a new hotwater tank, as I don't want to have to ever ever take the bathroom apart again. I haven't bought our POR15 yet to do the beams after we sand all the rust off. Keep up the good work. We are having to wait until the weather gets better as we have to work outside. Thanks for all the great pictures and info.
Do you have the specs on what you ordered (model number etc of the tank) and any pics of the new and old tank, specs on the pan. That is much more reasonable than I thought on the tank. I was planning on putting off replacing the metal pan and tank until next season (and still may) but it is the weak link in our system at this point. Was thinking of adding a temporary strap under the belly pan just so I don't hit a bump and leave my tank on the highway (or just have the extra water weight drop the tank for me).
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Old 03-05-2008, 05:37 AM   #60
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Black Tank

Quote:
Originally Posted by goransons
Do you have the specs on what you ordered (model number etc of the tank) and any pics of the new and old tank, specs on the pan. That is much more reasonable than I thought on the tank. I was planning on putting off replacing the metal pan and tank until next season (and still may) but it is the weak link in our system at this point. Was thinking of adding a temporary strap under the belly pan just so I don't hit a bump and leave my tank on the highway (or just have the extra water weight drop the tank for me).
The company that has been making tanks for airstream is still in business.
Inca Plastics Inc. If you look on your tank you will see INCA, and you will see a number on your tank ours was H4 (this is a 20gal). They have these in stock. I believe the guy I talked to was AL (owl). He will tell you to print up the photo from their web sight and make measurements and put them on the paper and email or fax to him. I can private email (pe) you our copy for a reference for you is you would like. Our pan was custom made in a metal shop in Oklahoma City. Our old one was so bad it fell apart when they took measurements (there was no botton in it) the foam was the only thing holding it against the belly. Our leak was also at the vent. I am sorry but I do not intend to take the trailer apart again in my life time so a new tank was the only way I would go. AL told me the old one couldn't be fixed as the vent pipe is heat spinned into place which causes it to melt and set. They couldn't guarantee it would stay fixed, I wasn't about to take that chance. With all the vibrations going down the road just to risky for my taste. Now this is just a girls point of view. I have photos of the old tank, haven't taken the time to take photo of new pan and tank. I can this weekend if you like and PE you the photos from home. Like I said the new tank is BLACK. INCA did a great job and $260 included shipping to Alex, OK. It is funny the tank is shipped in it bare nothings just a black tank with your name and address stuck to it. That is a pretty strong tank to make it through the US postage with no box.
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