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Old 12-22-2007, 08:18 PM   #21
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Wow 62 Overlander

Thanks for that advise. I will drop the belly pan this week and update. I will also try and get a lead on the 18mm Marine plywood.
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Old 12-22-2007, 08:47 PM   #22
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I've been trying to reach you by pm, but not sure if you've received them. Just an FYI.

glad you're making progress on the floor removal.
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Old 12-22-2007, 08:54 PM   #23
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Past thread on bolts: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...lts-16001.html

A past thread on the subfloor: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...ion-28340.html

Aluminati, if you use the search feature on the forums, you will find more information then you may ever thought possible. Just be prepared to do a lot of reading. It will be well worth your time.

If you view my picture at http://www.airforums.com/photos/show...00&userid=8174 you can get an idea of how to remove your flooring without removing the belly pan. Problem is, you will need to have the belly pan removed to properly reinstall the floor and related insulation.
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Old 12-22-2007, 09:01 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 62overlander
Aerowood,
What is a source for those stainless fasteners? I want to go in that direction.
Try here McMaster-Carr
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Old 12-23-2007, 06:54 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 62overlander
Aerowood,
What is a source for those stainless fasteners? I want to go in that direction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerowood
I would put .250 stainless steel bolts around the perimeter and 82degree countersunk stainless steel bolts in the general floor area...Try here McMaster-Carr
McMaster-Carr sells SS elevator bolts... very expensive, but if you are expecting rust... they are worth it.

Aerowood, they also make elevator bolts with a slot in the head... making them less of a pain.



... Or "fanged" bolts too.

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Old 12-23-2007, 07:07 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiffy Gem
... Problem is, you will need to have the belly pan removed to properly reinstall the floor and related insulation.
Yeah...after talking with a couple of people and thinking about it real hard, I am going to do it the right way and take the bellypan off. If I dont, it will always be in the back of my mind that I did a half-a$$ed job on it...and that is the unacceptable part.

If I want square work...I cant cut corners.

Ill keep you posted.
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Old 12-23-2007, 09:38 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byamcaravanner
McMaster-Carr sells SS elevator bolts... very expensive, but if you are expecting rust... they are worth it.

Aerowood, they also make elevator bolts with a slot in the head... making them less of a pain.



... Or "fanged" bolts too.

Yes I saw those, and they would be perfect. I however, am using all aircraft NAS hardware on mt GT. If I didn't have a supply of the NAS I would most likely use what is pictured. I'm also using all self locking nuts. McMaster-Carr has them also.
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Old 12-23-2007, 10:04 AM   #28
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Belly pan issue.

I have seen where someone would remove the "bananna clips" from around the trailer when they are doing floor replacement. I dont have thoes. My side panels look like the curve under the the body...being one piece. So when I take the belly pan out to get the black water tank out and to replace the floor..I will have to replace the floor from the inside? I dont see how i can step on the back to put pressure on the floor to get the plywood back in place.

I have not done this yet...just making a game plan of how to get everything back toghether before I start taking it apart.

Also...does anyone know if this year had a black and a grey water tank or just a black water tank?
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Old 12-23-2007, 10:49 AM   #29
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Aerowood... I some how knew it was Mc Master, I ordered their catalog about two weeks ago.. So where are you going to get the wings for that GT?

Aluminati... I think you only had a black tank. Once you remove the belly and "c" channel it will be clear how easy it is to slide the plywood in. Your shell will move where ever you push it and it will make weird sounds that will freak you out... Rear Aerowoods thread again. The half and half technique is excellent. Are you done being afraid and starting to have fun? It is all for the pleasure of it....
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Old 12-23-2007, 01:25 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aluminati
I don't see how I can step on the back to put pressure on the floor to get the plywood back in place.
Take a look at my blog (see link below my signature). With the help of some folks on this forum I devised a way to pull the frame down as needed to slide the floor in and out. Another forum member "PizzaChop" used a skid steer to push down on the bumper.

You just have a black tank. If you are interested in adding one, my blog shows how I did it. Many folks just use a portable tank on wheels called a "blueboy" to dispose of the gray water. Your dump valve setup will allow you to dump just the gray water or both the gray and black. If you have your trailer parked near a sewer hook-up you can just hook up the "stinky slinky" hose and let the gray water just flow out.

The "Banana" skins are just in the front 4 feet. In the rear 4 feet there are some flat pieces that are sniped in segment to slide up behind the skin at the beltline. In between the front and rear 4 feet the skin wraps under as you have said.

I know it sounds overwhelming but once you get things figured out it is not that complicated. Feel free to call (I PM'd you my phone number) with questions if you need some immediate interaction. I certainly know that many times the answer to a question spawns many other questions.

When things get overwhelming, just call on one your new Airstream Buddies... I've found, that is the great thing about Airstream folks, they are always willing to help.
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Old 12-26-2007, 08:21 PM   #31
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The belly of the beast.

Well...today I started taking the belly pan off. Starting from the back and working my way up the front. I got up to the back set of wheels. I was expecting to find all kinds of "stuff" on there. There was the usual stuff but I found insulation and lots of it. This was spray on insulation!...this stuff is pretty stiff...is almost looked like the expanding foam but it was much more dense. Also...I did not want to look at the condition of the cross members and outriggers ( If I ignor it ....it will go away right) Well...to my suprise, it only has surface rust on it!!! I guess the insulation they used did not absorb moisture. From the mid of the cross member down has surface rust so I am VERY happy about that.

Question about the outriggers.
Could I weld 2" angle iron between each of the outriggers for more support?

I know this is going to sound crazy but I have an idea.

From what I can tell...there is the trailer, then there is the plywood and then the shell goes on top of that and is screwed into both.

At the out rigger section,the bolt goes through the c-channel of the shell...through the plywood and through the outrigger...tying them all toghether.

In the spaces where there is no outrigger...the bolt just goes through the c-channel and the plywood.


If this is correct, then I am thinking that there is not the same support from outrigger to outrigger...there is a space where support is missing?


Why couldn't I just run angle iron from outrigger to outrigger, making a long bar so to speak...coat this with POR 15 so that the steel is protected then just bolt the shell onto the frame.

or

Bring the welded supports 6 inches from the end of the outrigger, replace the
sections of the floor on the edges...the width of the wheel well, from fron to back...then replace the floor in the middle.

In short, if the edges are boldted down and the floor is bolded down This should be pretty solid...correct?
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Old 12-27-2007, 02:15 AM   #32
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Airstream spent many years finding the design sweet-spot in having their monoque shell handling live loads of travel and occupancy - with the two layers of aluminum riveted together the shell is stiff enough it collectively holds the frame up, not the other way around.

Outrigger sheet metal stampings are designed to be lightweight and stiff though retaining enough flex that temperature changes and rough roads won't immediately start tearing the shell apart - you can add more outriggers, I believe Andy said you can't have too many, but I would not add an outer stiffener. Just make sure your rivets go back in snug, use the numeric drill bits and add more and/or relocate some rivets to fresh backings to draw everything tightly. and let the eggshell work its magic...

Some of what you are seeing is tired plywood - but the movement is tensioned in or borrowed from another place. I had a lot of outrigger damage with many of the radius edges bent and one folded up, to get it right I'd need to pull the shell to get rid of the remaining compressed fiberglass insulation and ensure the outriggers were level and true. That isn't going to happen but assembling it back to better than I found it with new belly skins and new c-rail throughbolts and washer plates should make it good for another 20 years..
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Old 12-27-2007, 02:34 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malconium
There is a tremendous ammount of information in these forums about floor installation. Also there are several of us that have done it without removing the entire shell from the frame. I was able to replace mine that way. In my opinion the main reason that someone would need to remove the frame entirely is if major rebuilding or restoration had to be done. Especially if the work had to be done somewhere else. I was able to have some welding done on my frame while sitting under the body. I also cleaned it up and painted it there. I think that floor replacement can also be done without removing the belly pan if the frame is not in too bad of a condition. I took off about 1/2 of mine mostly because it is going to need to be replaced. Here are some threads where I documented a shell on replacement technique and the use of a product called Polyboard as an alternative to plywood - but that another story.

http://www.airforums.com/forum...0&page=1&pp=20 Polyboard for a floor.

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=14804

http://www.airforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11818 (title = Body and banana wrap on floor replacement technique.) Look especially at the first post where I added a drawing. I am not using this technique but it still should work fine if you want to replace the band around the edges first. You would be able to access all the bolts from above too which was part of the intent of the approach.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11814 (title = Shell Off vs. Shell On Summary) Look especially at my detailed progress report in post number 74. Among other things I include a pretty detailed list of the tools that I used. The bracing that I used there works great and does not require all that much in the way of materials. There are photos in my gallery that go along with that report. The technique does not require lifting the body entirely off of the frame - it just supports and locates it while you repair the floor under it. It would also be easy enough to lift the shell a little if you needed too.

Malcolm
Hi Malcolm, Good advice.
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Old 12-28-2007, 07:38 AM   #34
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A day that did not go well

Last night did not go well.

I started to take the floor out last night and it is not as easy as I thought.
The wood floor is stuck against the spray insulation which makes it harder.
I used a saw set to the depth of the floor to try and cut sections but this did not work either.

While some parts of the floor over the black tank came out fine,(it was rotted) other parts did not fair well. (they are still good)
On the curb side and street side (under the u chanel) are stuck...I guess the floor is still solid in these areas.
I tried to use my grinder to cut the bolts but that did not work. There was not enough room to fit my sawzall under the u-chanel to cut the bolts either.

Do I need a different tool to get to these bolts without damaging the u-chanel?

The black tank:
Is it o.k to cut the black tank out from the top? ...cutting the supports when I can get to them?
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:29 AM   #35
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I cut a big hole in some of my floors in order to get the saws-all blade in between the "C" channel and plywood.
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Old 12-28-2007, 01:32 PM   #36
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That is what I did as well. I use my circular saw to cut at close to the wall and the cross members as I could and remove the plywood in big chunks. I was then able to use my air power cutoff wheel, sawsall or even hand held hacksaw blade as necessary to cut the rest of the fasteners loose. Under the C-channel I used my cutoff wheel and cut right into the wood just below the top as well as cutting the screws or bolts.

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Old 12-28-2007, 04:54 PM   #37
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Today was much better.

I used the advise for removing the floor...still have some work to do. I used a 1.5 inch spade bit for making holes...drilled holes in the four corners of the board I wanted to take out then ran my sawzall through it. I now have 1/3rd of my floor out will work on it some more in the comming weeks.

Oh yeah! My floor through out is 3/4inch. it is the original floor. I measured it from a piece that I cut out where the floor was still good. I guess it did not have the 5/8th inch because the insulation was sprayed on under the bottom so it did not need the extra space.

Also...I dropped that gawd awful black tank out of there. I never thought I would say this but I was happy to see the ground through the trailer. I dont think I will ever have to say that again

Still plugging away...

Now for window gaskets. Why could you not use the rubber door gaskets like you would find at Agent Orange?
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Old 12-29-2007, 06:38 AM   #38
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Leaks

If the trailer seems solid, is it possible that leaks can be comming from the lights where there is caulking missing, or not sealed correctly.
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Old 12-29-2007, 11:28 AM   #39
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The problem with Airstream leaks is that they could be coming from just about anywhere. I had one leak which turned out to be around one of the plumbing vents that ran down inside the wall and then ran horizontally along a wall frame member for 5 or 6 feet before it ran out under the wall onto the floor. Typically places to look are around the plumbing vents or around ceiling fans or any other opening in the shell such as for antenna, lights, etc. Another place is around window and door openings. Also body seams can leak. It was a real revelation to see what could leak once I had taken out the entire inner skin and insulation. I did some caulking from the inside. I still want to carefully go over the entire outside and re-seal all the joints and cracks. Also in a previous owner put any silicon caulk anywhere these locations are prime candidates for leakage. While silicon caulk sticks well enough to be hard to get off if does not seal well. General consensus on the forums is that is should never be used on a Airstream.

I hope this gets you started.

Malcolm
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Old 12-29-2007, 01:12 PM   #40
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Virtually all my leaks came from the water supply piping. Everywhere the floor was rotted, with the exception of one place, it was directly under water lines with many splices.
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