'55 FC The Whole ball of wax

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by NorCal Bambi

I've just finished the design for the side bath in The 55 Flying Cloud. It's not too different form some of the stock designs...

hi donny boy!

good to read u r back in rehab...

has the snow melted, so that u can work outside?

i gots some questions...

1. is this a wet bath?

more later

cheers
2air'

[Bowmans]

Great renderings for your bath Don, and the setup looks great for the space.

Not that I am suggesting anything for your shower head location, but I noticed Brad posted "Unless you want exposed plumbing, the curved exterior wall is out so that leaves the two end walls."

In ours, the plumbing is in the curved wall and not exposed. Is there a reason this isn't feasible in yours or why someone wouldn't want it located there? I can understand the logical part in a wet bath, not wanting to have the shower head pointed to the doorway. Just wondering why the pipes would need to be exposed.

[FC7039]

Are their generally an exhaust vent in these baths? Or are they just not used enough to worry about moisture build up?

[NorCal Bambi]

Keeping my thread up "is good incentives. I learned that in Rehab." From the movie Captain Ron.
Yes this is a wet bath.
Great to get secret messages form the flat land.
Don

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

hi donny boy!

good to read u r back in rehab...

has the snow melted, so that u can work outside?

i gots some questions...

1. is this a wet bath?

more later

cheers
2air'

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by NorCal Bambi

...Yes this is a wet bath...

continuing the query...

why?

cheers
2air'

[NorCal Bambi]

I will put an exhaust vent and fan in the top of the trailer for the shower moisture and other pleasant things that can happen in this local.There are two reasons for the vent. One is for moisture. The second is there is a hole in the top of the trailer in the right spot that a PO has cut in the trailer. I have no idea what the hole was for in the past. If you look at the colored pictures you will see a black pipe. This is the vent for the plumbing.
Don

Originally Posted by FC7039

Are their generally an exhaust vent in these baths? Or are they just not used enough to worry about moisture build up?

[NorCal Bambi]

Claudia thinks I should change my ways.
Don

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

continuing the query...

why?

cheers
2air'

[NorCal Bambi]

Thanks for the nice complement. I think what I'll probably do when I get to the decision point is hold the shower head up and see what works.
Don

Originally Posted by Bowmans

Great renderings for your bath Don, and the setup looks great for the space.

Not that I am suggesting anything for your shower head location, but I noticed Brad posted "Unless you want exposed plumbing, the curved exterior wall is out so that leaves the two end walls."

In ours, the plumbing is in the curved wall and not exposed. Is there a reason this isn't feasible in yours or why someone wouldn't want it located there? I can understand the logical part in a wet bath, not wanting to have the shower head pointed to the doorway. Just wondering why the pipes would need to be exposed.

[Bowmans]

BAH! It has been so long since I was in our AS, I forgot the plumbing isn't in the curved wall for the shower, sorry. The head is just mounted on that wall. The plumbing is in the side wall. You would think I would remember after building the whole thing this summer .

The shower head was mounted in the same spot before de-construction and it seemed the best spot to get the most height out of the shower. Since I am 5'10" and the shower pan is up about 4" off the AS floor as original, I wanted to get my hair wet. I just barely fit under the shower head. It comes off that hook in the ceiling and there is another matching hook near the seat (threw this in for a shower head placement).

Easy to see here:


With the wall in place (disregard the plastic covering the shower floor/seat):


Here is the hardware on the separater wall with the second hook for the shower head:

[2airishuman]

'em i think u missed my point...

WHY are u putting a wet bath in a 22 ft trailer?

does it REALLY shrink the space requirements THAT much?

it would seem that ANY space savings is OFFSET by the extra weight...

of a FULLY fiberglassed lavatory/shower...

have u got an ESTIMATE of how much the fiberglass will weigh?

my unit has a 2 piece fiberglass SHOWER stall, but the rest of the lav is LIGHT weight wall board and ply...

if the goal is a compact footprint, consider leaving the lav SINK out or installing a flip up/down sink in the shower.
________

same for the retro cool fixtures.

is this trailer for USE and travel (like the bambi) or show?

yes it is an old/cool shell but why not save some weight by using MODERN fixtures?

they don't need to be big or metal but LOW flow would be useful.

the simple/inexpensive/light plastic/nylon shower handles available now work GREAT and are very very light.

(like the 1 in bowman's pic, but there are others examples too)
______

as always ignore anything above that is wacky or doesn't fit with the goals.

cheers
2air'

[NorCal Bambi]

You bring up excellent points. I guess I didn't explain what my goal is with a wet bath. Most of the shower setup in small trailers have high potential for leaks. The leaks sooner or later will rot the floor. I was thinking that a one unit or as close to a one piece unit that I could get would maybe solve the leak problems. The reason for making this post was looking for ideas. How do you create a shower stall etc. with seams that don't leak. These trailers move and joints will leak after time. As you know I like the idea of light weight. I was even considering a design made from Aluminum sheets laminated on foam board. This would have been real cool shinny light etc. But the joints were a problem.
Too all thanks for the ideas and thoughts. Please keep them coming. I'm not afraid of the work doing a custom build. I was hoping together we might come up with a better idea.
Don

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

'em i think u missed my point...

WHY are u putting a wet bath in a 22 ft trailer?

does it REALLY shrink the space requirements THAT much?

it would seem that ANY space savings is OFFSET by the extra weight...

of a FULLY fiberglassed lavatory/shower...

have u got an ESTIMATE of how much the fiberglass will weigh?

my unit has a 2 piece fiberglass SHOWER stall, but the rest of the lav is LIGHT weight wall board and ply...

if the goal is a compact footprint, consider leaving the lav SINK out or installing a flip up/down sink in the shower.
________

same for the retro cool fixtures.

is this trailer for USE and travel (like the bambi) or show?

yes it is an old/cool shell but why not save some weight by using MODERN fixtures?

they don't need to be big or metal but LOW flow would be useful.

the simple/inexpensive/light plastic/nylon shower handles available now work GREAT and are very very light.

(like the 1 in bowman's pic, but there are others examples too)
______

as always ignore anything above that is wacky or doesn't fit with the goals.

cheers
2air'

[NorCal Bambi]

I like this a lot. Thanks for the pictures. What did you do to solve the problem of possible leaks down the road?
Don

Originally Posted by Bowmans

BAH! It has been so long since I was in our AS, I forgot the plumbing isn't in the curved wall for the shower, sorry. The head is just mounted on that wall. The plumbing is in the side wall. You would think I would remember after building the whole thing this summer .

The shower head was mounted in the same spot before de-construction and it seemed the best spot to get the most height out of the shower. Since I am 5'10" and the shower pan is up about 4" off the AS floor as original, I wanted to get my hair wet. I just barely fit under the shower head. It comes off that hook in the ceiling and there is another matching hook near the seat (threw this in for a shower head placement).

Easy to see here:


With the wall in place (disregard the plastic covering the shower floor/seat):


Here is the hardware on the separater wall with the second hook for the shower head:

[Blue Pearl]

Don, Fun to watch the design process, My only thought is making the bath a tad larger, moving the sink to the inside corner by the door, toilet on the outside wall. You can then curtain off the sink area to keep dry, towels etc. can then go under sink. It will also make an automatic toilet cleaner or a seat when you take a shower. As I always say everything in your Airstream should have 2 purposes.
Note, Glenn just finished putting in new pan for black tank, lucky we didn't leave it and belly pan on I-5. only thing holding black tank was neck of tank, New axels too Yea!

[NorCal Bambi]

Thanks for the ideas. The black tank. Airstreaming can be such fun! We had quite a bumper experience on our way back from Mexico. This is a campfire story.
Don

Originally Posted by Blue Pearl

Don, Fun to watch the design process, My only thought is making the bath a tad larger, moving the sink to the inside corner by the door, toilet on the outside wall. You can then curtain off the sink area to keep dry, towels etc. can then go under sink. It will also make an automatic toilet cleaner or a seat when you take a shower. As I always say everything in your Airstream should have 2 purposes.
Note, Glenn just finished putting in new pan for black tank, lucky we didn't leave it and belly pan on I-5. only thing holding black tank was neck of tank, New axels too Yea!

[NorCal Bambi]

I took the front inside end cap off today and on the inside of the outside end cap are some great finger and hand prints. My guess it was a hot sweaty day in LA back in 1955 when this trailer was built. I'd like to see if I could get a good record of these prints to put in my restoration book. Anybody have good ideas on how to lift old prints off of aluminum? You may remember that I had mentioned in an earlier post the "Rudy" had signed his name to the frame of this trailer.
Don

[malconium]

I found a neat little stainless steel sink at the following place which happens to be local to me but they do a lot of Internet business.

RV PARTS OUTLET

I think it was the specific sink in the above link. The faucet was an in stock item at Home Depot that I thought was pretty neat and it was not all that expensive either. It comes with a couple of different bases. The drain I had to buy seperately since the one that came with the faucet would not fit. I found it at Home Depot in the area where they have bar sinks - which was separate from most of the faucets and drains.

In the front view photo below you can see the single lever shower faucet mounted on the wall under the sink. I have not yet hooked up the fresh water lines but my drain lines are all in place.

In case you are wondering the counter top is a re-issue of an original Formica pattern. I bought it locally but might have paid more than I needed to. You can order this pattern in 4 different colors at home depot. The really nifty polished aluminum counter edging I found at Outwater Plastics. Check out the following link:

Outwater Plastics - 2009 Master Catalog - page 20

The type I bought was ALU777-P

The one thing that was a little awkward ordering something like this was I had to have it cut down to no more than 8' per piece. That worked out OK though. Since then I found a place locally where I could have bought almost the same thing. I could not find anywhere that carried it locally before ordering though.

Malcolm

[malconium]

I am not yet entirely done with my shower but what I am doing is to use hollow core doors for most of my wall partitions. For the shower I glued the white bumpy plastic panels available at Home Depot to the surfaces of the doors with contact cement. The same kind as I used for gluing down my Formica counter tops. The curved piece that follows the contour of the wall actually floats off the wall a little. It is glued to the edges of the panels on each side. One of the photos shows how I held that panel in place while the glue set up. It would have been easier to glue up the whole assembly and then slide it into place I think. The one thing that I still have to do is carefully caulk the seams of the plastic. The jury is out on exactly which product I will use for that. All of the joints are tightly held together so the caulk will just be sealing the cracks. By the way the panel on the sink side of the shower is actually plywood because I wanted something thinner there that was a little stronger for mounting the shower faucet. Also I was able to reuse the original aluminum extrusion that was in that same location on my original shower. The shower head will be on a flexible tube and hung on a hook on the wall. By the way the doors are luan which I intend to finish a bit redish to enhance the mahogany look. The one panel at the right side of the shower does not yet have the plastic attached and I think is just sitting in place there now. I can see a little light coming through the crack at the joint.

Malcolm

[Bowmans]

Originally Posted by NorCal Bambi

I like this a lot. Thanks for the pictures. What did you do to solve the problem of possible leaks down the road?
Don

I am also concerned of possible leaks but this is definately better sealed than what was there. I used the original shower pan which (except the drain) is one piece up to about 2 feet from the floor. I reinforced the corners with glas since those seem to go first when it starts cracking. The shower walls are 4 pieces (one for each side) and overlap the shower pan by 2 inches. I then sealed the corners and screws with plastic caps with silicone. Bending the plastic sheet on the curved wall was tricky to keep it in one piece because it goes around the heat duct.

The original walls were just painted paneling on one side and wallpaper over paneling on the others and were not very sturdy. It looked like the PO had used tons of silicone to keep those sealed as they shifted in and out of the bracing. When I first started taking it apart, the shower pan looked like it had settled toward the curved wall making the seat area hold water. I solidly shimmed underneath the base and the seat to angle it for runoff.

In the original design, there was also a number of seams that weren't needed. Where the walls met the pan and each other, there was wide aluminum trim with the plastic inserts all cut up to go around the seat, etc. These were sealed with silicone top and bottoms and even in the plastic insert area tops and bottoms. Then the curved back wall had 2 extra pieces of aluminum to go around the heat duct and they were additional flat ledges that would hold water. 4 horiz. crosses of trim on the back wall to seal all of those pieces, each with 4 passes of silicone to seal. It was a mess.

I think having minimal seams will help keep the water in but will watch the silicone areas closely.

Below is the only shot I have of the original shower area. You can see the ends of the 2 additional panels that were put on the back wall creating some odd angles:

[NorCal Bambi]

This is a collection of great information. Please keep the info and ideas coming. I'm going to throw in an other idea for your reactions. How about a bath section built out of aluminum sheets only? They have make boats out of aluminum. The trailers are build out of aluminum. and if sealed properly, they work pretty well. Sea planes have been made of aluminum sheeting. Maybe some other classic trailer brands had aluminum bath units. I don't know. Anyone out there have ideas or comments? One thing about an aluminum unit, it would flex with the trailer as a unit.
Don

[2airishuman]

hi don

i've seen many made with stainless steel sheeting.

while i agree LEAKs are a major concern even a fiberglass unit can leak if it cracks...

or the fixtures/pipes fail.

both things have happened to the "leakproof" 2 piece fiberglass enclosure in my unit.
__________

the new safaris (sports) are made with a 2-3 piece molded shower stall.

looks like fiberglass but it's some sort of high tech plastic, so it's lighter and more flexible.
__________

the key elements seem to be a solid/reliable PAN and walls that are layered INSIDE the pan such that water is channeled inside.
__________

the stainless steel pans and walls do give a vintage/industrial look but are COLD to touch.

the stuff in bowman's pix looks very much like the newer units.
__________

now about that lavatory layout...

why isn't the shower more forward, over the wheel well?

is the crapper tank HOLE directly under your toilet location in that sketch?

cheers
2air'