Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-05-2011, 08:56 AM   #1
P&K
2 Rivet Member
 
P&K's Avatar
 
1970 29' Ambassador
Austin , Texas
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 55
Images: 37
2 layers of plywood?

I am in the middle of a shell off floor replacement on my 1970 Ambassador 29'. I have torn the old floor out and noticed that at each lateral frame member (where plywood seams are) there is an additional strip of plywood between the sub floor and frame member. Is this standard? The two edges of sub floor that butt together are nailed to this strip underneath, essentially gusseting them together. It makes sense I guess.
P&K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2011, 10:23 AM   #2
retired USA/USAF
 
2001 30' Excella
Somerset , New Jersey
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,414
That should just be a way of securing the span of plywood. It will take some of the bounce out for those longer spans between frame rails.
__________________
Roger in NJ

" Democracy is the worst form of government. Except for all the rest"
Winston Churchill 1948

TAC - NJ 18

polarlyse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2011, 10:55 AM   #3
Rivet Master
 
Minno's Avatar

 
1972 31' Sovereign
Lexington , Minnesota
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,785
Quote:
Originally Posted by P&K View Post
I am in the middle of a shell off floor replacement on my 1970 Ambassador 29'. I have torn the old floor out and noticed that at each lateral frame member (where plywood seams are) there is an additional strip of plywood between the sub floor and frame member. Is this standard? The two edges of sub floor that butt together are nailed to this strip underneath, essentially gusseting them together. It makes sense I guess.
Yes, that's how they built the floors. In the narrow body 70's trailers, the floor is only 7' 8" wide, so a 4" strip is cut off the end of each piece of plywood. These cut offs are used as gussets to reinforce the seams. If you look at the framing cross members, where the seams and gussets are, the cross member is about 3/4" lower than the other ones to allow for the gusset. Glue and screws (or nails) hold it all together, and then it's bolted to the frame.

Chris
Minno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2011, 10:37 PM   #4
2 Rivet Member
 
1969 31' Sovereign
O , Central,Florida.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 30
I just noticed this today But I was wondering was it necessary for the installers to bend the length of the bolt sticking past the nut?

Gonna be a SOB to remove.

Oh well I have cutting torches.

I am replacing just a 4 x 8 section in the rear bath of my 69 land yacht.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...out-78002.html


SR66
Slowride66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2011, 11:36 PM   #5
Rivet Master
 
Phrunes's Avatar
 
1978 31' Sovereign
Oakley , California
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,197
The bent bolts are an insurance policy so the nut wont walk all the way down the threads and fall off. Like that crusty rusty square nut is gonna walk down a welded together with rust, machine threaded 6 mile long bolt! Hahaha

Another technique borrowed from the aircraft industry...all bolts should point down with nuts installed from the bottom, that way if a nut wiggles loose, the bolt is still there to hold things together.
Phrunes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 10:06 AM   #6
2 Rivet Member
 
1969 31' Sovereign
O , Central,Florida.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 30
Yes "held in by Gravity" I am familiar with that technique.

Would seem to me the Wire thru the hole would be more to aviation technology .

I prefer "top locks' Myself.


SR66
Slowride66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2011, 02:31 PM   #7
Rivet Master
 
Phrunes's Avatar
 
1978 31' Sovereign
Oakley , California
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowride66
Yes "held in by Gravity" I am familiar with that technique.

Would seem to me the Wire thru the hole would be more to aviation technology .

I prefer "top locks' Myself.

SR66
If you take your Airstream to the South Pole, do you change them to bolt in from bottom? Hahaha
Phrunes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2011, 01:43 PM   #8
Rivet Master
 
worldinchaos's Avatar
 
1959 17' Pacer
Long Beach , California
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phrunes View Post
If you take your Airstream to the South Pole, do you change them to bolt in from bottom? Hahaha
And I can't even imagine what you do in space...

Oh, wait I remember- they use Duct tape. Like when fixing lunar landers.

I guess we'll find out soon, since I'm pretty sure the Airstream is a contender for the space shuttle replacement program.
__________________
- Peter (and Marie)
TAC CA-15

1959 Pacer 18' Renovation - Knight in Shining Armor

Our Adventure Blog - Documenting our backpacking, hiking, camping, and Airstreaming
(still updating, haven't gotten to the Airstream trips yet)
worldinchaos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2011, 07:52 PM   #9
P&K
2 Rivet Member
 
P&K's Avatar
 
1970 29' Ambassador
Austin , Texas
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 55
Images: 37
Wow

Ok everyone. I will probably end up moving this thread into one containing my whole project. This is just the start. I have some great pictures up to now that I will post later.

I have the shell off. The floor is totally shot. HORRIBLE. Front C-Channel is ok. Side channels are easy. The rear channel is shot. Does anyone have a source for the 1970 style C-channel (U-channel)? It is not the C-on-U style found in later 70s models, and its not the J-channel found in 60s models (at least I don't think it is). It is the same height on both interior and exterior.

Does anyone know where I might get this rear channel? Ideally I would like to find the channel specific to this model so that I don't have to cut and bend to match the curve. Andy, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Inland has this type.
P&K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2011, 08:12 PM   #10
Tool Hoarder
 
Currently Looking...
West , California
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 907
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by P&K View Post
Ok everyone. I will probably end up moving this thread into one containing my whole project. This is just the start. I have some great pictures up to now that I will post later.

I have the shell off. The floor is totally shot. HORRIBLE. Front C-Channel is ok. Side channels are easy. The rear channel is shot. Does anyone have a source for the 1970 style C-channel (U-channel)? It is not the C-on-U style found in later 70s models, and its not the J-channel found in 60s models (at least I don't think it is). It is the same height on both interior and exterior.

Does anyone know where I might get this rear channel? Ideally I would like to find the channel specific to this model so that I don't have to cut and bend to match the curve. Andy, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Inland has this type.
P&K The channel is pretty easy to get either Andy @ Inland RV, Outdoors Mart, Collin Hyde, or Uwe Sawender @ Area 63 can help you with that. As far as the other channel you can make it if you had a metal break. I made my own, check out my thread.
marzboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2011, 09:31 PM   #11
P&K
2 Rivet Member
 
P&K's Avatar
 
1970 29' Ambassador
Austin , Texas
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 55
Images: 37
Talking Nice!

Sweet! That info should move things along.

This project is getting really fun now. I have been sitting on this trailer for about a year now. My wife and I got fired up about Airstreams and bought this one quickly. Should have researched more...

Luckily I am a fairly handy guy, and my dad is super handy and has a shop where I can get help with the frame repairs, so this is a father son project . We got the shell off today and have some pics I'll be posting.

Any recommendations on the tank situation? Like I said, Ill be posting pics in a couple days. The black tank seems to have been replaced at some point with a new one from Airstream, so it should be fine. The fresh tank appears original, but not particularly stinky or dirty. Should I add a gray tank? It would seem the black tank IS the gray tank on this model.
P&K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2011, 10:41 PM   #12
Rivet Master
 
worldinchaos's Avatar
 
1959 17' Pacer
Long Beach , California
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by P&K View Post
Any recommendations on the tank situation? Like I said, Ill be posting pics in a couple days. The black tank seems to have been replaced at some point with a new one from Airstream, so it should be fine. The fresh tank appears original, but not particularly stinky or dirty. Should I add a gray tank? It would seem the black tank IS the gray tank on this model.
From what I've seen, the canned response around here on that topic is "what sort of use will your trailer actually see? Will you be boondocking, etc?" and then the debate can come up of using a Blue Boy portable tank or two, versus installing some gray tanks.

I personally expect to be boondocking a lot and like the idea of being completely self-contained. For instance, we will only be installing a single kitchen sink and exterior utility shower (and boondocking outdoor shower) in our trailer, but are putting in 42 gallons of freshwater capacity and 26 of graywater capacity. Big change from the factory 12 gallon fresh and 5 gallon black that was there before. I can't imagine how many tanks I would be buying if we had decided to keep/add a toilet.

So there's one person's perspective for you. Seriously though, what are you using it for, aside from a father-son project which is a GREAT reason by itself.
__________________
- Peter (and Marie)
TAC CA-15

1959 Pacer 18' Renovation - Knight in Shining Armor

Our Adventure Blog - Documenting our backpacking, hiking, camping, and Airstreaming
(still updating, haven't gotten to the Airstream trips yet)
worldinchaos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2011, 09:45 AM   #13
Tool Hoarder
 
Currently Looking...
West , California
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 907
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by P&K View Post
Sweet! That info should move things along.

This project is getting really fun now. I have been sitting on this trailer for about a year now. My wife and I got fired up about Airstreams and bought this one quickly. Should have researched more...

Luckily I am a fairly handy guy, and my dad is super handy and has a shop where I can get help with the frame repairs, so this is a father son project . We got the shell off today and have some pics I'll be posting.

Any recommendations on the tank situation? Like I said, Ill be posting pics in a couple days. The black tank seems to have been replaced at some point with a new one from Airstream, so it should be fine. The fresh tank appears original, but not particularly stinky or dirty. Should I add a gray tank? It would seem the black tank IS the gray tank on this model.
Sounds like a great project! I am wrapping up a year of gutting clean up frame repair/ modification and new tank install. As wordinchaose said depends how you will use your trailer. I have a 30' so I decided to ad d a grey tank. I got mine from Ronco you can check it out on my thread. I hope to have pics of the dry fit up this weekend.
marzboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2011, 04:28 PM   #14
Rivet Master
 
Minno's Avatar

 
1972 31' Sovereign
Lexington , Minnesota
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,785
A 1970 AS did not have any grey tanks, the grey water watered the ground. It's one of those "while we're at it, we might as well add tanks" ideas. We're adding grey tanks to our '72. Chris is building them - you can see it on our thread "Little Girl Refurb". We're almost ready to install them...

Kay
Minno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2011, 04:34 PM   #15
4 Rivet Member
 
rmpray's Avatar
 
1973 31' Sovereign
Bertram , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 277
Images: 21
Just a thought, but I am replacing some of the flooring in my 73 and came by some fire rated epoxy plywood. When you think of the possibility of the occasional water leak (well we all know old Airstreams never leak ) this stuff may be a good investment. I have had some large scrap pieces I left outside, directly on the ground and often flooded (when it rains in TX) and not so much as a hint of de-lamination or rot. Be nice to just do this task one time.
__________________
Catmando
"There’s not much in life we can’t over-analyze”
rmpray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2011, 02:56 PM   #16
Rivet Master
 
Phrunes's Avatar
 
1978 31' Sovereign
Oakley , California
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmpray
Just a thought, but I am replacing some of the flooring in my 73 and came by some fire rated epoxy plywood. When you think of the possibility of the occasional water leak (well we all know old Airstreams never leak ) this stuff may be a good investment. I have had some large scrap pieces I left outside, directly on the ground and often flooded (when it rains in TX) and not so much as a hint of de-lamination or rot. Be nice to just do this task one time.
Man, I'd be all over that one. If you've got it, or can get it affordably. Do it!
Phrunes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 12:59 AM   #17
P&K
2 Rivet Member
 
P&K's Avatar
 
1970 29' Ambassador
Austin , Texas
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 55
Images: 37
Ok. I know I'm being a total slacker with the pics, but I promise they are coming. We have the shell off, trailer out, floor off, and belly pan off. I will order replacement outriggers tomorrow. The trailer is sitting in my dads shop waiting to be worked on this week.

Any thoughts on strengthening the frame? The frame appears to be bent (wavy up and down, not side to side), but it's hard to judge since the whole thing is floppy without the plywood or shell attached. The main frame rails are cracked and sagging about where the rear bath starts, so they will for sure be getting the treatment. The welders suggested "boxing in the frame" like they do on old cars, but I realize this is not a car and that different principals apply. It seems to me that if the suspension is doing its job well that a stiff frame would not be a bad thing.

I'm also looking for suggestions on where to get some axles around Austin or Dallas. I would like to pick them up to avoid shipping charges.

I'm feeling stuck on the fresh water tank. The tank that is in there is original. It doesn't smell or look funny. It feels pliable and doesn't appear to be cracked, but how long can that puppy last? It just feels like while I'm in here I should replace it. Again, direct replacement is available, but pricey compared to similar square tanks. I doubt we will be doing much boondocking. I guess building a rectangular tank into a cabinet or piece of furniture might be a good way to go.

I'm liking the sound of this epoxy plywood. I'll check it out.
P&K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 05:34 AM   #18
Rivet Master
 
r carl's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Lin , Ne
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,430
I would build a new frame. Use at minumum 2x6x11ga rectangle tube.
r carl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 07:45 AM   #19
P&K
2 Rivet Member
 
P&K's Avatar
 
1970 29' Ambassador
Austin , Texas
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 55
Images: 37
I'm sure a new frame would be superior, but is it really necessary? Material cost is going to be pretty big compared to just patching it. It seems to me that as much as the frame relies on the floor and shell for strength, buiding a new frame might be overkill. The only real frame rot is on the very rear cross member and the outriggers.
P&K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 08:04 AM   #20
Tool Hoarder
 
Currently Looking...
West , California
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 907
Images: 3
You can "box" in the channel like I have to strenghten weak areas of the frame
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P6210240.jpg
Views:	59
Size:	269.5 KB
ID:	137520   Click image for larger version

Name:	P6210244.jpg
Views:	57
Size:	296.5 KB
ID:	137521  

marzboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Removing 1" plywood under fresh tank bennyg Belly Pans & Banana Wraps 0 06-12-2011 02:50 PM
Floor channel size when installing 3/4" plywood? surfpod Repairing/Replacing Floor &/or Frame 8 05-03-2011 12:25 PM
Plywood or Advantech? COACHJEFF Repairing/Replacing Floor &/or Frame 27 04-05-2011 08:48 AM
More than u wanted to know about plywood ! BabyBoomers Repairing/Replacing Floor &/or Frame 1 04-02-2011 01:36 PM
Aluminum Trim for Plywood Walls Motochi Upholstery, Blinds, Walls & Interior Finishes 7 02-06-2011 09:33 AM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.