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2002sheds · 02-13-2018, 11:08 AM

Hi All,
I am looking more closely at the tail end of this AS, and I wonder if it is possible that it is missing a whole cross member. Below is photo that I hope will help provide context.

In the pic, the view is from the non door side towards the door side. I am on the ground and the camera is angled up. The tank support that had rusted in two is pointing towards the camera. There seems to be one or two vertical rust lines on the longitudinal frame (towards the bottom of the picture). Is something supposed to be there? And a related question, what forms the forward most "wall of the storage compartment (the one that the slinky is stored)? The storage compartment lid is open in this picture to allow more light.

Thanks,
David

dbj216 · 02-13-2018, 06:51 PM

Your photo shows the U shaped rear cross member. It looks pretty solid to me. The vertical rust line looks like where water was dripping and left a stain.

My trailer had some aluminum boxing around the tanks to hold the insulation and keep heat in the tank compartment. I will rebuild the "rear end" of the tank compartment likewise to hold in heat to keep the tanks from freezing. This boxing formed the "forward most wall" of the bumper storage compartment.

I am unsure of your tub plan. My tub is on a plywood "table" support about 4.5" high. Under the "table" is the trap, drain pipes and heat ducts to the bathroom. My tub integrates with the rest of the plastic bath furniture. It would mean starting all over in the bathroom if I tried to lower it.

Here is a photo of my black and gray water tanks that I'm not reusing. Your trailer has just a black tank, and I don't know what it looks like. Draining the tub into a black tank would quickly fill it. I think you would be better off draining all the gray water into a "blue boy" portable tank on wheels and then just tugging it over to the campground dump site. Many folks do this.

David

2002sheds · 02-13-2018, 08:55 PM

Hi David,
Thanks very much for the clarification! That makes perfect sense (about the tank box being the "front wall" of the storage compartment.
My hope for the lowering of the tub is dependent upon a few things:

* re-routing the hearting duct, which I see as a small issue, and
* plumbing the tub. Currently, all water goes into the one tank. It has been that way since it was set up in 1970. I think you are right, though, that there would be a huge advantage to not using the same tank for all things. Any chance you would sell the old grey water tank?

Now would be the time for me to make any changes in plumbing layout. The other aspect of plumbing would involve a drain that uses a mechanical trap instead of the normal P trap. I think it is called Hepvo. This setup may allow me to drain the tub into a grey water tank or blue tote, as you described. As it stands, all of the grey water is routed to an inlet right near the dump valve.

Hopefully, the picture below will make it clear. The toilet flange is to the right, the vent pipe attaches to the white flange in the back towards the left, and you can see the length of black ABS pipe that goes away from the valve and then drops and comes back into the valve area itself.

Thanks,
David

ke6gkv · 02-14-2018, 12:12 AM

hello david, i built the tank platform myself, used the old tube for measurements, left extra tab length at rear for exact fit. it worked fine for 6 years until a fire destroyed my beloved overlander. what i learned on my 64 has help me on my 80 caravelle. kurt

2002sheds · 02-14-2018, 07:33 AM

Hi Kurt,
Thanks for the info. I am going to my favorite scrap metal place today to look for sheet material and also the angle iron braces.
Sorry to hear about the 64... That is terrible!

David

dbj216 · 02-14-2018, 06:50 PM

Heck, you can have that old gray tank if you want it. The trouble is the shipping cost to your place, maybe $75 or more. It doesn't weigh much, but it is a big cube. The old tank is only 10 gallons, really not big enough for today's use. And the spin weld fittings may not suit your new plumbing layout.

My new gray water tank is 27 gallons. And it is a whole lot easier to mount as it is T shaped and designed to be hung between angle irons.

Colorado David

2002sheds · 02-14-2018, 07:47 PM

Hi David,
Thanks for the offer -- I have an account with USPS, so I may just take you up on it...

Any idea of length, width, depth? I will estimate a weight (I will look up similar sized tanks and go slightly higher)... I will calculate using a generic address in Conifer to see if it is worthwhile.

Thanks,
David

dbj216 · 02-14-2018, 08:06 PM

I'll measure it up tomorrow down at the shop. I'll weigh it too, take a good picture and post the info here in your thread.

My new tanks were shipped "nude", no box, just a label. Made sense to me.

Colorado David

2002sheds · 02-15-2018, 04:14 PM

Hi All,
I have now removed all of the fasteners that held the U channel to the rear brace and through the L-shaped tin thing...

The L-shaped tin thing was rusted in several places, as is the (I think) exterior skin that also wraps under there...

The U channel is riveted onto the body on the sides of the AS, but I don’t even see evidence of where it was attached to the body along the rear hatch area... the U channel sure looks like it is an important part of what holds the rear shell up, so I am a little confused...

Also, I have read (in this thread) about the L-shaped tin thing (sorry to keep using the wrong name) can contribute to water getting directed towards the subfloor. I am replacing this piece and would like to do it right, while things are accessible.

Thanks,
David

dbj216 · 02-15-2018, 06:10 PM

I dug the old gray water tank out of the Overlander junk pile. I cleaned it up a bit and unfortunately notice cracks in the 3" drain port and the 1 1/2" drain port. This tank is scrap. So I don't have a useable one to get to you.

The second photo shows the Inca Plastics part number on the tank. I believe this tank is in their Airstream catalog. For some reason today, I am unable to download their Airstream catalog. But I believe the tank is still being make.

David

Minno · 02-16-2018, 08:19 AM

Chris made tanks for grey and black water for our trailer. His method is in our thread. Stinky work, but it only cost us about $100 per tank instead of several hundred. Tanks have held up for 5 years now with no issues. It's not for everyone, but something to think about, anyway.
We bought a new fresh water tank. The one we removed was a very pretty shade of green due to the algae growing inside it. Cost for that one was around $500 with shipping.

Kay

2002sheds · 02-17-2018, 08:18 AM

Hi Kay,
That is an interesting idea (making my own tank). I am definitely going to check it out... :-)
Through the help of Rug Jenkins, the mystery of the missing rivets in the rear portion of the U channel has been solved. He explained that the (in my case very rusted) L-shaped rear body plate is what makes the connection between body and frame in the straight section across the rear.
I had my first taste of removing bucked rivets, which was not as difficult or as different from removing a pop rivet as I had feared, and the offending plate was freed and pulled out.
Getting closer to replacing that floor...

Thanks,
David

dbj216 · 02-17-2018, 07:13 PM

Removing solid rivets (hammered, bucked, squished, mushroomed, etc.) is even easier with a drill guide.

My rear body plate wasn't too rusty. I replaced it with a stainless steel one which I think will be okay.

Colorado David

Toolmanbt · 02-18-2018, 08:51 AM

Sheds, all

Sheds your progress looks great, Im trying to keep up with you.

So I have a question about lifting the rear body just enough to work on the frame/C-channel, at the rear and remove what is left of the plywood back there.

Thinking about building some wood framing that would bolt to the ribs on both sides of the interior and just high enough to place two hydraulic jacks between the wood framing and the steel framing, (2" x 6" on top of the steel frame for jacking). I believe that I saw this technique on the forum ? Then slowly lift the body maybe an inch or two.

Anyone done this ? how did you go about working on the rear frame where the body is sitting on it. If you did lift the body at the rear, how much did you lift it ?

2002sheds · 02-18-2018, 10:21 AM

Hi Toolman (better than calling you "Tool"

,
I have not yet gotten to that point (jacking up the shell), but I saw in another post the method I will try to use:

1. Put a step ladder inside the AS on the first stable (in my case, 4 feet in from the rear) section of floor.

2. Open (or more likely remove from its hinge) the rear window.

3. Find a long enough, fairly broad board (I plan on using a 10 foot long 4 x 4 with a 2 x 6 "pad" to go where it contacts the top of the window frame) and place on end on the step ladder (fairly high, I would guess) and the other through the window.

4. Grab a floor jack and a post and lift the brace -- and therefore the shell. I plan to use a 4 x 4 again, tied to the horizontal piece with one or two Simpson brackets so it does not fall apart as I jack up the whole contraption.

What is critical (of course) is to gain enough vertical room AND have enough room behind the AS to allow you to get back there with the replacement sheet of plywood. Since I have never tried this, I am apprehensive about placing that kind of pressure on the top of the window frame. But it has been done successfully, so I will try to minimize the chance of bending anything by using a broad area that the window will sit on.

Your method sounds similar to the above. I am guessing that as long as there is room to move around behind the AS and you find a stable place inside the AS, it will work. And I seem to recall other pictures of these coaches lifted in various ways, many through the windows...

Let me/us know how it goes. I can learn from this :-)

Thanks,
David

2002sheds · 02-18-2018, 11:02 AM

Hi Colorado David,
Thanks! I would like to know if you built or considered a rear end connection that separates the shell from the "slinky box".
It seems to me that wrapping the belly pan past the rear access compartment (where the battery lives in my AS) is a recipe for water collection. If I read your post correctly, my understanding is that you want to have the rainwater flow down the body, past the rear access compartment and into the belly pan, where holes would be drilled to drain the water.
Quite a large section (around 5 feet, from the rear) of belly pan was ripped off of the rear of the AS we bought. I am wondering if it might make more sense to try to bring the belly pan up to (and under, if possible) the outer skin below the access compartment. I would then make the box (I have the lid) for the slinky from separate sheet aluminum or metal mesh.
There may be some physical limitations that I have not yet seen, but is there some merit in trying this?

Thanks,
California David

Minno · 02-18-2018, 11:28 AM

When we redid our subfloor, we did it shell-on. We clamped pieces of scrap board on the outriggers and C channel as we removed the old subfloor, and then removed them as we slid new floor into place. In the rear, there was enough room to slide plywood in without the spacers. We had one instance of the body falling off an outrigger, but we were able to get it back on. The biggest issue was the body spreading out as we worked. Chris made a sort of come-along device to hold sides together as we worked. The two of us were able to do it.
For your rear compartment: on our trailer the belly pan curved up to the rear bumper to form the bottom of the compartment. We (I, that is, since I was driving at the time) lost the rear 2 feet of the belly pan including that storage area on our initial drive home from Mississippi in road construction. When we reformed it we did it as part of the belly pan again. We did find that it holds water after rain, so we drilled some holes through it and now it drains well. Just holds the sewer stuff, so no big deal if it gets wet for us. Mesh might make for more of a muddy storage area.

Kay

2002sheds · 02-18-2018, 05:09 PM

Hi Kay,
Thanks -- I hadn't thought of the effect of mud... I will need to keep that in mind as I figure out the plan...
Since the belly pan was missing when we bought the AS, I'd like to ask if the belly pan also covers the tank box (which seems a bit redundant) or goes around it? I am inclined to rebuild the tank box to fit within the space available (roughly 53 inches by 29 inches) and to attach it with sheet metal screws. I would have already replaced the belly pan in all areas where it is missing except for that tank box area. Is that how it is done anyway?

Thanks,
David

dbj216 · 02-18-2018, 06:18 PM

Hi 02sheds: I've had the unfortunate experience of doing three belly pan replacements, on a 66, 69, and 86. It is hard work for me working on my back.
In every case, the belly pan terminated at the bottom of the rear bumper. On my 75 Overlander, the belly pan is attached to the three foot long "skid angle irons" that are welded to the bottom of the frame rails at the back of the trailer. Airstream used this extra 3" to house the wastewater tanks in the rear. Maybe this is similar to your 70 Overlander.

I don't care if water gets into the "basement" of my trailer. I want it to get out, and I want some air circulation down there to dry it out. I don't want mice down there. 3/8" diameter drain holes seem logical to me.

David

Minno · 02-19-2018, 08:03 AM

I think we didn't cover the tank box, but I'd have to look. Probably not going to happen today: 17 degrees F and snow coming in, baby quilt to work on, Olympics are on, puppy wants a lap, I'm still getting over the viral crud I can't seem to shake, and it's my day off of work. I'll see what I can do!

Kay