1970 New to us Ambassador reality check

[2002sheds]

Hi Tx,
Great info! It sounds as if you did not drop the belly pan either -- is that correct? Or did you drop only the rear section?
I am very encouraged by the idea that I might be able to get that piece of replacement plywood in there!
Do you recall if it is 5/8? My floor is so rotten in some areas that is is hard to measure. Was it one piece that went in? I am still mystified by the process, but it sounds as if it will be much more clear as things come out.
And pictures would be very welcomed


Thanks,
David

[tx70amb]

David, I have the pictures but having trouble posting for you and others to enjoy. I may have to wait on technical help from my daughter. I could do private message sooner if I knew how to do that. Working on how to now, especially since I have pulled the pictures and are on my desktop, John in TX

[tx70amb]

[tx70amb]

David, unbelievable, I got it myself. In picture one you will see I rolled the belly pan back out of the way until I reached the joint where new and old floor met which was by the way the original install joint. Please note in the same picture where I slid in the replacement metal brace above the frame, but below the floor and inside the Al skin. I think the floor was 3/4. Picture #2 shows a piece of 90 degree Al that I added inside the C channel to strengthen and tie frame, floor and channel together as noted in px#3. Px#4 shows one of the added outriggers that I mentioned before.

[dbj216]

Way to go tx70amb. Nothing better than doing it yourself, just like you did on your Ambassador. Your rear end separation repair looks similar to mine. I did drop the belly pan as I removed the old tanks, and I had some frame sag that I needed to repair. But the rear end separation and frame repair is done. I'm working on the tank install this week.

I made a new rear body plate, a new rear crossmember, and a new subfloor replacement to replace the rotted out stuff. The first photo is of the parts I made, and the second photo is the completed assembly with the welds done. My rear end ain't separated anymore.

I don't know if 02sheds trailer has rear end separation. Considering the floor rot he describes, it wouldn't surprise. Have you done the bumper bounce test?

Colorado David

[2002sheds]

Hi DB, Tx,
Thanks very much! Guys, it is hard for me to grasp the description of the photos -- I think it is because I have not yet removed the rear section of floor. I will do so and review the pics again.
DB, I have not done the bounce on the bumper test. The floor is rotted away from the back end of the trailer so much (about 2 inches) that I am afraid to do so. Instead, I am planning on pulling the floor, checking the frame, and barring any needed repairs, sliding the new plywood in.
If I had to guess, the existing plywood is 5/8". If I find a discrepancy, I will try to route/shave the edge of the plywood so that it will fit into the channel...

Thanks,
David

[Minno]

David,
We did not replace the insulation in the belly pan on our trailer. We do not camp in extremely cold weather, and have found that our floors are not cold. We used click lock cork floors in our trailer. They added weight but also are nice and warm. Belly pans are hard to get completely water tight, and, in fact, are not meant to be. I would be cautious about using rigid foam insulation, since if it gets wet it will hold the water up against your new wood subfloor.
Just a thought....

Kay

[dbj216]

Hi 02sheds: I can't think of anything you could damage by doing the bounce test. Except for yourself if you slipped and fell off the bumper. I stand on the rear frame rails, first left side and then the right side, and pretend I'm an olympic diver on a diving board. My feet don't leave the bumper. I'm watching the intersection of the rear body molding and the frame rail. If a gap opens up when I'm bouncing down, and closes when I "unweight" it, then you know the mounting bolts and rear body plates are rotted.

My trailer had about a half an inch gap. So I discount the asking price of the trailer knowing the extent of the work needed to repair it. If not accepted, then I find another trailer.

Your vintage Ambassador can handle a bounce test I'm sure.

David

[2002sheds]

Hi David,
Thanks for the followup. I am planning on replacing the bath floor, so I will have the floor out as well as the belly pan. Would I be able to see any rot/separation then?
Today I started removing the bath fixtures in order to get at the floor back there. I am making progress, but things have stalled while I try to get the cabinets (or at least the walls) towards the bedroom area out.
I have pulled every fastener I can find, and nothing moves. I am clearly missing something, so any helpful hints will be welcomed :-)

Thanks,
David

[tx70amb]

David, to help with understanding of of px note the hole in the frame from Colorado David px. It looks like he replaced the back 6 to 8" of the floor and then tied those two pieces together. A agree with him, his repair is going nowhere. It is solid. Once you start taking yours apart I do think the pictures will mean more. Please also note my earlier post where some great threads on this subject were around about 8 years ago. They served as my guide.

[mimiandrews]

I'd recommend sheet metal screws only in locations where nothing bad would happen if they backed out due to vibration. Our Airstreams flex and jiggle a lot when we're on the road.

[2002sheds]

Hi Mimi, All,
I hear you on the sheet metal screws. I have a feeling that replacing the floor won't be the last time the belly pan comes off in the near future...
I have hit a snag, in that I need to remove the walls nearest the bath in order to continue. I have done some searches on here, but wonder what I am missing, since even after removing every fastener I can see, none of the cabinets/walls are budging. It seems as if I would need to remove everything along the walls from the door/refrigerator back.
Meanwhile, I got a glimpse of my future, and it is literally crap. The black tank may not have been used for some time, but it is definitely "occupied". I am sure that many of you have faced similar unpleasantries. I do not have the option to take the AS to a place to flush it out and empty the tank -- it has to be done here. Any advice on either/both topics will be appreciated :-)


Thanks,
David

[rugjenkins]

A bucket, bleach and a hole.[emoji12]

[2002sheds]

Hi Rug,
I am on that path . While my son was at soccer practice I visited the nearest Walmart and picked up the “wand” with jets at the end and some Camco tank cleaning chemical...
Any thoughts on where the fasteners are that I am missing on those partition walls?

Thanks,
David

[dbj216]

It would be easier to drain the black tank if you lived in the country on your own farm. I have a macerator pump (Thetford tank buddy) that grinds solid waste. I live on an acreage. I dig a hole and grind everything up. Then I bury it. I've only done this twice in the 13 years I've been Airstreaming. It is on my own property. Heck, I have a septic tank and drain field for the wastewater coming out of our house. It's going in the ground. I would never dump wastewater on public ground. Heck, we have so many elk, deer, a bear or three and foxes around here that my mess pales in comparison. I might add I found my black tank broken at the toilet spinweld. Thus the new black tank for me.

One watchout is the undrained black tank my have solidified if it sat for very long. You may want to add some water and let it soak for a week or so in an effort to loosen it. That is one reason I always try to have 5 gallons of water in my black tank for "slosh cleaning".

You are wise to move slow and not force anything until you find the "hidden rivets" preventing you from removing something. I assume you have your bed frames out. I assume you have your bath fixtures out. The pocket bath door floor guide is attached to the floor as well as the walls. I am not sure how to disassemble all that. I don't have to in my project. The curb side bulkhead wall is also a double wall affair. Both of the rear bedroom, bathroom bulkhead walls have vent pipe going up through the roof.

You may not have to remove them to complete your subfloor replacement project.

You will be able to see the rusty rear body plate, rotted subfloor, rusty rear crossmember when the subfloor is removed. You can look at some of the frame rails. You will likely have to drop some of the belly pan and maybe the wastewater tanks to facilitate the repair, like the welding needed. I did. Removing the belly pan is easy compared to other tasks. Putting the belly pan back up is harder, much harder. You will have to make or have made replacement parts for these rusted out frame components.

It's a big project. I find it fun. That's the reality for me. Yep, I'm wierd.

David

[2002sheds]

Hi David,

"You are wise to move slow and not force anything until you find the "hidden rivets" preventing you from removing something. I assume you have your bed frames out."

No, I don't. Looks like they are coming out tomorrow :-)



"I assume you have your bath fixtures out. "

No, I don't. I am stuck/stalled because the walls between the bath and the beds are still in place, I am stumped about how to get them out...looks like removing the bed frames will be part of this...



"You will be able to see the rusty rear body plate, rotted subfloor, rusty rear crossmember when the subfloor is removed. You can look at some of the frame rails. You will likely have to drop some of the belly pan and maybe the wastewater tanks to facilitate the repair, like the welding needed. I did. Removing the belly pan is easy compared to other tasks. Putting the belly pan back up is harder, much harder. You will have to make or have made replacement parts for these rusted out frame components."

Great info -- thanks!


Tomorrow I will go at it again, with the hope of getting those pesky walls out. And I will definitely be adding some water to the black tank in the hopes of loosening the caked-on grossness...


Thanks,
David

[dbj216]

Here is a photo showing some of the bath "shower side" wall. It is painted white. You can see the pocket door which runs in between the bath and bedroom walls. There is a "header" which is over the pocket door and holds up the track the pocket door is hung from. This wall you want to remove is a rather complex affair. Lots of parts.

Maybe the photo will give you some insight. The bed frames come out easy. The bathroom parts come out pretty easy. I'd do these items first. That bed to bath bulkhead wall is a tough one.

I am unsure why you want to take it out.

Colorado David

[2002sheds]

Hi David, All,
Lots of progress today. All of the cabinets on the side away from the door are out, as well as the fiberglass around the toilet (the one just below the counter).
I almost have the bulkhead out on the other side, and am closing in on the tub.
I am almost certainly going to remove virtually every cabinet and all of the upper interior skins -- there were rats up there, and I (literally) want to start fresh...
I am now at that uncomfortable point of saying "well, since everything is out anyway..."
The original layout is:

Gaucho up front
Galley on door side starting right at the door
Twin beds "mid-ship"
Rear bath

The AS was pretty original, and most items are still there, right down to the avocado green Formica counter in the galley. The vinyl on the interior skins is a super-light beige plaid, and is in remarkably good condition, considering its age. Likewise the plywood. While the finish is worn in many places, the wood itself is still good, for the most part.

This leaves me with a bit of a puzzler... I would prefer the bath to be in the middle of the AS and to have a convertible dinette up front and bedroom in the rear, but I also desire to keep some of the "retro" feel...I kind of like the beige vinyl on the interior skins and I even like the galley pretty much as is.

Having made many cabinets and having done quite a bit of remodeling, I can say that the quality of the original Ambassador cabinets left a lot to be desired. It seems as if they made up for a lack of precision with 100 times the number of screws needed. Even if I opt for more of a "restore" look, I can't bear to put the cabinets back exactly the way they were built earlier -- they are simply not that good...

I would love to hear any of your opinions about my path forward. Have any of you kept some of the original look while updating other elements? How many of you actually like or prefer the twin bed layout with the bath in the rear? Why?

My instinct is telling me that apart from the galley and the cool tambour door overhead cabinets, much should change... is that too far from the original?



Thanks,
David

[tx70amb]

David, my bath area is unchanged in layout with all components painted with epoxy paint to good as new after use of bondo w screen material repair. All wood reworked with sanding as needed, stain and polyurethane. The original wood of such high quality that all original wood now looks like it belongs on the interior of a high dollar yacht. Both twin beds were raised to improve getting up/down. Kitchen changes limited to cabinets to left of refer replace with large drawers and more countertop space. Pull out drawer added below refer and microwave added above it. Front galley changes: Pull out sofa now facing door with new bench added just to right of door ( it folds out for sleeping to meet sofa) Table now under front window placed between new bench and sofa for eating/game table. Avocado green still remains with tambour overheads along with cleaned up vinyl on walls Still very retro looking

[tx70amb]

Here are some px David.