1958 Cruiser (two door) Frame-off Restoration

[flyfshr]

Ankornuta ~

I'm not sure if you remember seeing the AC on the roof of mine but I got the Penguin Low Profile unit and I have been very pleased with its performance. Its really not all that noticeable and it certainly cools the insides during the relentless summer heat. It even has a heat strip.

Brad
FF

[ankornuta]

Originally Posted by flyfshr

Ankornuta ~

I'm not sure if you remember seeing the AC on the roof of mine but I got the Penguin Low Profile unit and I have been very pleased with its performance. Its really not all that noticeable and it certainly cools the insides during the relentless summer heat. It even has a heat strip.

Brad
FF

Actually, come to think of it, I don't recall noticing the A/C on your trailer... which is a good thing!

I'm kind of tempted - if I put a rooftop unit on - to build a galvanized box up around it and make it look truly '50's...

[ankornuta]

I've been starting to give more and more thought to the electrical and propane systems lately, as they're going to be the next big milestone in this project, after getting the body back on.

I've been looking at getting a true-sine inverter w/ three-stage charger. I've also been looking at some "golf-cart" batteries, or possibly L-16 deep cycle batteries. Has anyone installed anything more than a 12v system in their trailer? I've heard there are some gained efficiencies by going with a 24 volt battery system, but I wonder if the cost is really worth it...

Before I pick an inverter and battery bank, however, I need to know how much electrical power I will need. I also need to know how much propane I want to carry with me. I've started by making a list of powered items that will be built into the trailer, and what their source(s) of power is(are). The next step of course is to determine their rate of consumption.

Item____________Propane______12vDC______110vAC
----------------------------------------
Refrigerator_______X_______________________X
Water Heater_____X_______________________X
Water Pump___________________X____________
Toilet______________________________________
Fan, bedroom__________________X____________
Fan, stove____________________X_____________
A/C_____________________________________X
Flourescent lights______________X_____________
Outside light__________________X______________
Interior outlets____________________________X (output power)
Exterior outlets____________________________X (output power)
Hall lights_____________________X___________X
Sconces_____________________X_______________
Bathroom light________________X________________
under-shelf lights______________X_______________
running lights_________________X________________
furnace___________X___________________________
stove_____________X__________________________
oven_____________X___________________________


If anyone knows the rates of consumption for any of these items, or has gone through this exercise already, your help would be very appreciated

[ankornuta]

I went to the RV store today because my gray tank came in. The ABS tank I got originally didn't quite meet my specs, so I exchanged it for a much slimmer polyethelene tank, only 5" tall. It's a 39 gallon tank.

Then on the way home, I stopped by Home Depot and was separated from another wad of cash, yet again... this project is expensive and only getting more expensive! I picked up everything I need to finish the waste water plumbing, including some r-30 insulation for the holding tanks. I also got some conduit to house the electrical lines for the trailer's brakes. I think they were too exposed previously, especially if there was a blow out or if I run over some debris.

This weekend I'll finish the plumbing, including the connections for the black and gray tank flushing systems. I'm considering adding a gray tank transfer mechanism, so I can pump contents of the gray tank into the black tank for expanded storage... but I'm not sure if this is really necessary in my case, since my black tank is only like 14.6 gallons.

I think I might plumb in an expansion tank for the fresh water system (not yet plumbed at all) this weekend as well because I want to locate it in the same area as the waste tanks and it's going to be tough to get in there once the floor's on. I'm getting antsy to put the floor on...

[uwe]

Originally Posted by ankornuta

I've been starting to give more and more thought to the electrical and propane systems lately, as they're going to be the next big milestone in this project, after getting the body back on.

I've been looking at getting a true-sine inverter w/ three-stage charger. I've also been looking at some "golf-cart" batteries, or possibly L-16 deep cycle batteries. Has anyone installed anything more than a 12v system in their trailer? I've heard there are some gained efficiencies by going with a 24 volt battery system, but I wonder if the cost is really worth it...

Before I pick an inverter and battery bank, however, I need to know how much electrical power I will need. I also need to know how much propane I want to carry with me. I've started by making a list of powered items that will be built into the trailer, and what their source(s) of power is(are). The next step of course is to determine their rate of consumption.

Item____________Propane______12vDC______110vAC
----------------------------------------
Refrigerator_______X_______________________X
Water Heater_____X_______________________X
Water Pump___________________X____________
Toilet______________________________________
Fan, bedroom__________________X____________
Fan, stove____________________X_____________
A/C_____________________________________X
Flourescent lights______________X_____________
Outside light__________________X______________
Interior outlets____________________________X (output power)
Exterior outlets____________________________X (output power)
Hall lights_____________________X___________X
Sconces_____________________X_______________
Bathroom light________________X________________
under-shelf lights______________X_______________
running lights_________________X________________
furnace___________X___________________________
stove_____________X__________________________
oven_____________X___________________________


If anyone knows the rates of consumption for any of these items, or has gone through this exercise already, your help would be very appreciated

My layout is similar. Here's what I chose:

Intellipower 60A converter/charger with charge wizard for all 12V needs. Also, 2 group 42 (?) 12V batteries.
12 circuit 120A fuse block. used 9 circuits for varying things, much like what you have listed.
30A electrical service, with 4 breakers. 30A incoming, 20A A/C circuit, 2 ea. 15A outlet circuits, streetside and curbside, respectively.
2 30lb propane bottles.

we've had enough for everything for a week's worth of camping without hookups, basically. Your mileage may and will vary....

[uwe]

Originally Posted by ankornuta

Then on the way home, I stopped by Home Depot and was separated from another wad of cash, yet again... this project is expensive and only getting more expensive!

Ever heard the "tip of the iceberg" saying? That's where you're at.

[ankornuta]

Originally Posted by uwe

Ever heard the "tip of the iceberg" saying? That's where you're at.

Oh man... don't I know it. I recently made a list of pretty much everything that I need to buy to finish this project. It's in the thousands of dollars; somewhere around $6k-ish.

It's funny because when I first started out (knowing pretty much nothing about what I was getting into) I guesstimated that I would spend "around $2k when all is said and done". Ha! I have to laugh to keep from crying...

[ankornuta]

Originally Posted by uwe

My layout is similar. Here's what I chose:

Intellipower 60A converter/charger with charge wizard for all 12V needs. Also, 2 group 42 (?) 12V batteries.
12 circuit 120A fuse block. used 9 circuits for varying things, much like what you have listed.
30A electrical service, with 4 breakers. 30A incoming, 20A A/C circuit, 2 ea. 15A outlet circuits, streetside and curbside, respectively.
2 30lb propane bottles.

we've had enough for everything for a week's worth of camping without hookups, basically. Your mileage may and will vary....

Cool... this is great info. Out of curiousity, do you know what the amp/hour rating is for your batteries?

Thanks again!
-Andrew

[Jim & Susan]

What type of R-30 did you choose? The pink stuff or something else? Was it expensive?

Jim

[ankornuta]

Originally Posted by Jim & Susan

What type of R-30 did you choose? The pink stuff or something else? Was it expensive?

Jim

It's not pink, it's a yellowish fiberglass insulation. Backed and unbacked, depending on where it's going. I don't recall the exact manufacturer name. This is just for around the water tanks, though. I'll be using bubble foil in addition to fiberglass insulation for between the frame rails and the body walls.

[ankornuta]

I got everything I needed to finish up my holding tank plumbing this weekend. I got caught up with a bunch of other chores around the house today, so I only got to do a little work on the trailer, but I did finish all the dry-fitting of the holding tank plumbing, including vent lines for black and gray tanks, drains to the gray tank, drain to the black, etc, etc. I also picked up a tank washing system that mounts into the black tank and will hook up to a hose under the trailer, near the dump valve.

Hopefully I'll find some time after work this week to drill the holes in the holding tanks and glue all the pipes together.

Here's some pictures. I've only just zip-tied the pipes into place and the tanks still aren't insulated, that will come soon.

[47WeeWind]

Are any of those long horizontal runs for black water? If not, ignore my remarks. If so, they seem like rather long trails to move them little doggies along the pipe if you don't have a household volume of water to encourage them. The best line from a toilet appears to be a straight drop. Perhaps you haven't yet cut a hole in the top of a tank for the toilet flange? I'd hate for you to have a traffic jam after the floor is installed. Just trying to think ahead here. Nice progress by the way!

[ankornuta]

Originally Posted by 47WeeWind

Are any of those long horizontal runs for black water? If not, ignore my remarks. If so, they seem like rather long trails to move them little doggies along the pipe if you don't have a household volume of water to encourage them. The best line from a toilet appears to be a straight drop. Perhaps you haven't yet cut a hole in the top of a tank for the toilet flange? I'd hate for you to have a traffic jam after the floor is installed. Just trying to think ahead here. Nice progress by the way!

I like your use of euphimisms

No, none of them are for black water, two are vents and one is the gray water drain for the shower and sinks. The toilet drops straight down into the black water tank.

On a different note, I can really appreciate the rear bath layout now, after plumbing for mid-bath. It gets very crowded there in the middle of the trailer.

[fastrob]

Originally Posted by ankornuta

......

The two RV-specific units are similarly priced, coming in right around $900 when all is said and done. I'm not sure if better prices are available elsewhere. Modifying a portable or window-mount A/C unit would be quite a bit less money.

....

Thanks for sharing, good craftsmanship and nice photos.
Uwe has a clean installation of a window mount converted a/c. Have been waiting to get some feedback from him during the heat of the summer.
I will not start my restoration until I have a bunch of cash, my guess is $10,000.
The slimline carrier rooftop is tempting though.

R

[ankornuta]

Originally Posted by fastrob

Thanks for sharing, good craftsmanship and nice photos.
Uwe has a clean installation of a window mount converted a/c. Have been waiting to get some feedback from him during the heat of the summer.
I will not start my restoration until I have a bunch of cash, my guess is $10,000.
The slimline carrier rooftop is tempting though.

R

Waiting on the restoration until you have the money saved up to do it all in one fell swoop is actually a really good idea. Or even better yet, ordering all the parts and keeping everything stored and then doing it all at once. Of course, it helps to know exactly what you're going to need.

If/when I do another one, that's the way I'm going to do it. I think $10k for the restoration might be a little high... but better safe than sorry

[fastrob]

Originally Posted by ankornuta

If/when I do another one, that's the way I'm going to do it. I think $10k for the restoration might be a little high... but better safe than sorry

Friend,

I am lowballing so the wife does not freak out. It could easily go way over that unless I do everything, i.e. parts only.

R

[66Overlander]

Originally Posted by ankornuta

Here's some pictures. I've only just zip-tied the pipes into place and the tanks still aren't insulated, that will come soon.

It seems that on most trailers I've seen, they keep the gray water lines above the floor as much as possible (behind cabinets and such) until they get near the tank. I don't know if it'll be an issue, but you'll probably be sloshing water back and forth in those long horizontal lines if you travel with the gray tank anywhere near full. Depending upon how you run the traps and such I wonder if there could be any slosh out back into sinks, or especially the shower pan.

This is just a thought, but I have no personal experience plumbing a trailer to confirm if this could really be an issue or not.

[wkerfoot]

Originally Posted by ankornuta

I like your use of euphimisms

No, none of them are for black water, two are vents and one is the gray water drain for the shower and sinks. The toilet drops straight down into the black water tank.

On a different note, I can really appreciate the rear bath layout now, after plumbing for mid-bath. It gets very crowded there in the middle of the trailer.

ankornuta,

What is the distance between your axles and the drain lines? Also, where are you putting the tank drains?

Thanks,

Bill

[ankornuta]

Originally Posted by wkerfoot

ankornuta,

What is the distance between your axles and the drain lines? Also, where are you putting the tank drains?

Thanks,

Bill

Hi Bill. The drain lines look pretty close to the axles in the pictures I noticed, but they don't stick more than an 1" below the frame rails where the axles are. I think the reason they look SO close is because the rear axle is currently "cantilevered" up (the front one down).

Tank drains exit a couple feet behind the rear axle; about two feet back for the black tank and about five feet back for the gray tank. They meet up there with a Valterra valve. Where the dump valve is, there is also a place to attach a hose which connects to my black tank washer.

-Andrew

[ankornuta]

Originally Posted by fastrob

Friend,

I am lowballing so the wife does not freak out. It could easily go way over that unless I do everything, i.e. parts only.

R

LOL, I hear you So far I've done everything myself on this project... with the exception of all the support I've gotten from these forums! Then again, this has taken up almost all of my weekend time since January (which your wife might not like either).

-Andrew