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Old 10-04-2020, 10:25 AM   #1
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Two foot-iris

We are in serious pursuit of our last trailer.
We’ve tear dropped for seven years, sold the teardrop and built a garage that will accommodate up to a 30 ft-er.

We’re agreed on our floor plan (RB-Q).
However I’m leaning toward a 23 and my wife is sure she wants a 25.
A humorous sidebar is that we’ve never really experienced the inside of either version, not in any detail anyway.

My reasoning is I’ve read (a blogger) that 23 is the best length for national parks and dry camping.
My wife (who’s never been able to walk around in our teardrop) is afraid that 23 ft will be claustrophobic.

My questions for the forum are:
Is there an ideal length for national parks and dry camping (we’ve done both for up to two weeks with our tear drop)?
And
Are there any serious downsides to the RB-Q floor plan (we realize it means a smaller split bathroom)?
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Old 10-04-2020, 10:35 AM   #2
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We have a 25 and both dry camp and national park camp; the 25 has never been an issue and, in fact, has been the largest some of the parks can fit into the prime spots. We had some friends who had a 23, crawled around our 25 and immediately traded theirs on a 25.
Larry
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Old 10-04-2020, 10:39 AM   #3
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We started with a 25 and caught the 2 foot-itis disease and now have a 27'. It is a real disease for which there is no vaccine!

I know it's only 2 feet but it seems like 6 feet on the inside. Your wife's concern about being claustrophobic should be taken seriously. Of course there are many, many people that are very happy with 23'.

While we certainly have not been to every national park we have never been anywhere where the two extra feet prevented us from getting a campsite.

FWIW!
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Old 10-04-2020, 10:46 AM   #4
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"While we certainly have not been to every national park we have never been anywhere where the two extra feet prevented us from getting a campsite."

While I agree with that completely, I would use Shenandoah as an example. The most beautiful sites are right along the App Trail and you cannot fit anything bigger than a 25 in those prime sites. The park has plenty of sites for any size trailer, though.
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Old 10-04-2020, 11:04 AM   #5
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This may be helpful to the OP

https://camperreport.com/best-rv-len...ational-parks/
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Old 10-04-2020, 11:26 AM   #6
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The 23FB is a great coach. The queen can be a residential size with little modification. The bath is really usable. The coach can be easily pulled with a comfortable and capable daily driver SUV. The ability to do a u-turn in a wide space of road is more valuable than it's ability to get into a NP CG. Being narrower means less scratches and shorter will get you into some tent sites. The double sinks are a help to galley duty.

However, not all can deal with only having a dinette. You must go and experience the layout. You must figure it out for yourself. We did well for five years. But we felt we needed more space for trips longer than five weeks. Not all get it, but for those that do, Two Foot It'is has a trigger. Figure out if you have the potential to catch it, and understand what your trigger might be. Best to do this one time.

If you think you need more than a 23, get a 27. The NS bed is worth towing an extra two feet. If you feel you need a 3/4, get a 27. Pat
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Old 10-05-2020, 11:13 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKI View Post
The 23FB is a great coach. The queen can be a residential size with little modification. The bath is really usable. The coach can be easily pulled with a comfortable and capable daily driver SUV. The ability to do a u-turn in a wide space of road is more valuable than it's ability to get into a NP CG. Being narrower means less scratches and shorter will get you into some tent sites. The double sinks are a help to galley duty.

However, not all can deal with only having a dinette. You must go and experience the layout. You must figure it out for yourself. We did well for five years. But we felt we needed more space for trips longer than five weeks. Not all get it, but for those that do, Two Foot It'is has a trigger. Figure out if you have the potential to catch it, and understand what your trigger might be. Best to do this one time.

If you think you need more than a 23, get a 27. The NS bed is worth towing an extra two feet. If you feel you need a 3/4, get a 27. Pat
I’m doing pretty well with AS acronyms but I haven’t encountered “NS” yet in regard to beds.
What does that term refer to?

Also are you say a 23 RB-Q is wider than an FB?
Are you implying the 25 is wider than a 23?
Are you implying that a 27 is wider?

Obviously I can look these questions up and I shall, please excuse the pre-purchase newb jitters.
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Old 10-05-2020, 11:22 AM   #8
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I think "NS bed" refers to "North/South" meaning it runs the long ways in the trailer rather than sideways.

Shari
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Old 10-05-2020, 11:23 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
I’m doing pretty well with AS acronyms but I haven’t encountered “NS” yet in regard to beds.
What does that term refer to?
I'm guessing North/South, fore and aft.

FWIW I go from wishing I had a 23' to happy with my 25'. Ever since I got into RVing I keep wanting smaller. Personally I think 25 with twins is the sweet spot for Airtreams.
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Old 10-05-2020, 11:33 AM   #10
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. . .
. . . Personally I think 25 with twins is the sweet spot for Airtreams.
. . . or our 1885 25' rear corner bed Sovereign . . .

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Old 10-05-2020, 11:43 AM   #11
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WOW! You must have the worlds oldest A$. LOL
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Old 10-05-2020, 11:59 AM   #12
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WOW! You must have the worlds oldest A$. LOL
No, the one George Washington slept in has that distinction.
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Old 10-05-2020, 01:02 PM   #13
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At the risk of sounding like “Cruiser” from the movie “Stripes”, there was a 23 RB-Q?

I’m positive I saw one in the classifieds (under used) but no such animal exists in the 2021 lineup as far as I could discern.

The side mounted dinette isn’t going to work for us, that may take 23’-ers out of the running.

Also for any other newbs following this the 25’s are indeed 5inches wider than 23’s.

So far that’s the best defense I’ve heard for the 23’s.
Another plus for the 25’s, they can be safely hauled with .5 ton P/U.

I was scared to leave my Subie for a Tacoma (mpg) and ended up loving the Taco.
I was scared to go to the Tundra (mpg) from the Tacoma and the Tundra turned out to be one the most comfortable long distance rides I’ve ever enjoyed.

But I’m not sure a.75 will continue this progression.
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Old 10-05-2020, 01:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
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-- snip--Ihaven’t encountered “NS” yet -- snip --
The 23FB and CB/D are 8ft wide. The distance from ball to axle is different. The tongue weight will be different. The 25 and longer trailers are 8'-5.5" wide. The 25FB has excessive tongue weight. The 25RB is a bit betUse the Search box at upper right to pull them up.

NS (North-South) is the orientation of the bed with the head at the end and the foot toward the center of the coach so you can access both sides of the bed. It is used in reference to queen beds. The EW beds really are not walk around, but the NS are.

The 27 is NS layout. The 25 is the same EW (East-West) configuration as the 23. The difference is the extra width of the 25.

No problem with not knowing. You have a lot to learn. An error is costly and really not necessary. The layouts are on the AS website. Takes a little learning to get around, but the info is there. The more you know before you visit an AS dealer, the better questions you will have and the more you will learn.

EDIT - RB-Q - that likely is a rear bed queen and likely was a 25. It may have been a 23 with an error in the designation information. The rear bed 23 has a full size (not a short queen) bed tucked into one corner of the coach. One owner gives that bed to the wife and sleeps on the couch. Works for them. Never would work for us.

EDIT - do not have pre-purchase jitters. Do not be like the folks who walk into a dealership and walk out with a purchase. Define what you need, investigate the compromises and become comfortable with them, shop for a deal and the coach you want. The folks who purchased our 23 shopped for a year to find the right coach for them. Take the time to get it all right and you will have a life long coach.

Good luck with the investigation. Pat
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Old 10-05-2020, 01:29 PM   #15
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You will find that a bigger truck matched to a trailer gets about the same mileage as a smaller TV that is straining. So why subject yourself to the towing stress?
My wife is 100% in agreement that modern pickups are excellent for long trips.
That said, our test drive in a gas F250 made it clear that a half-ton was enough. For us, the generous.cabinet space, easier bed access and quiet A/C made the 23FB the right choice. The extra weight and width of the 25’ A-S were daunting. I liked the rear dinette and hatch option on the 25, but you have to know when to say “when”.
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Old 10-05-2020, 01:30 PM   #16
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We love our 23 FB so far, for many of the reasons mentioned above. Many state and national parks, as well as some smaller campgrounds, only allow for a trailer and TV combination of 45 feet in length. Mine is just over 43 feet, which is perfect. When we were shopping, my goal was to get the smallest trailer that I could get with a queen sized bed and a relatively large bathroom. The 23 FB checks those boxes.

The 23 FB is a small trailer. The bed and bathroom are great, but the living area is small. You have to be comfortable with the dinette as your only real interior seating other than the bed. When two people are trying to walk down the aisle, it's crowded. I think you need to experience it for yourself before you decide. Again - it works great for us and we love it, but it's not for everyone. I haven't been in a 23 FB twin, but my understanding is that the extended center aisle between the beds makes it feel much larger than the queen bed version. That might be something to consider if you are okay with twin beds. The twins are also longer than the queen, if that's important to you.
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Old 10-05-2020, 02:28 PM   #17
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But I’m not sure a.75 will continue this progression.

I recommend you actually look at current HD offerings from the Big 3 before you make up your mind. And by "look", I really mean take them for long test drives. Whatever you want, you can find in a ".75" if you give it a chance.

Ram-->Interior and trim level that makes me say "wowzers!" The Mega Cab with the fold-flat rear seat is friction' awesome.

Ford-->There's something about seat massagers that make me start wondering when the Rolls Royce is gonna pull up next to me and ask for the Grey Poupon...

GM-->The independent front suspension makes for a "little truck"-type ride, and the pro-grade trailering amenities (with the 163 different camera views) make for a much lower-stress towing experience.

There are many things to like about how each of these drives, pulls, and looks. I'm a GMC guy, but only because the AT4 HD is a complete bad ass. It's also a daily driver for me, so I made the choice, in part, on how easily I could navigate Houston's crowded freeways and suburban parking lots.
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Old 10-05-2020, 03:35 PM   #18
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Tom, if you have a Tundra you will be able to tow either of your prospects.


I have a 25FB and have had it since 2009 with over 50K miles on it since we purchased it used. Great trailer and I too would like a 27 but....getting to that point where that is not likely to happen.



A couple of observation here. First we did not want a bed situation where one of us had to crawl over the other to get in or out. I think I remember the 23 had a bed against a wall. The 25 is tight but you "can" get in without bothering the other person.


I wanted a fridge that vented out the roof. The smaller ones have less interior space and are problematic when it comes to getting a decent draft. Many have to have fans installed.



I prefer the FB model. ALMOST every spot we camp at had a better view out the back. But EVERY SPOT has a view of my TV out the front. Some don't like the door in our FB being at the back of the trailer. I suppose having to walk an extra 16 feet to get to the door is a big issue for them. Some have mentioned that they have camped in spots that drop off at the back which causes the door to be elevated too much. That has happened to us, but only in 3 or 4 times in these last 11 years.


The 25FB has a heavy tongue. I am not sure if it is "excessive" as someone has described but it hasn't been an issue with me, my Tundra or the Equalizer hitch I use.



Do as some have suggested. Look at the two trailers you mentioned. If you can't actually see one in person, take a look at the floor plans.
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Old 10-05-2020, 04:06 PM   #19
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[The 25FB has a heavy tongue. I am not sure if it is "excessive" as someone has described but it hasn't been an issue with me, my Tundra or the Equalizer hitch I use.

Do as some have suggested. Look at the two trailers you mentioned. If you can't actually see one in person, take a look at the floor plans.[/QUOTE]

The fact that you’re pulling as heavy as I plan on going with the Tundra is reassuring.

I own an older Ford and had a new Jimmy in the 90’s.
I wouldn’t take either over the Tundra, especially in durability.
I’m not knocking Fords or GMC I’m just saying in my experience my Toyota trucks have held up well.
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Old 10-05-2020, 04:16 PM   #20
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I really wanted to want a 23, but after spending time in both at shows and a consignment dealer, we went with a 25. We got RB twins so we do have north / south beds. The 25 has bigger tanks and, in the Flying Cloud line anyway, a bigger fridge. Haven't done any really tight campsites yet, but I think it will work ok most places. All personal preferences, but we are very happy where we ended up. While the 27 queen would have been nice, a 25 is as big as I wanted to go both to not have to get a bigger truck and for some fear of campground access (not sure how real that is).

Oh yeah, and the tongue weight concerns kept me focused on the RB model.
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