A Perspective on Buying and Selling

[Carroe]

A Perspective on Buying and Selling

Over the years, I have had a passion for buying and selling almost everything, including real estate, boats, RVs and whatever looked appealing at the time. Almost always, I was able to do this profitably. Recently, I have been shopping for an airstream, for the reasons all you own them: they are the best around. During my search, I have encountered the same issues that I have seen over and over when dealing with other assets. So, please consider this perspective, whether you are shopping or selling:

For Sellers:

1. Clean up your rig and fix everything that needs repair. Don’t expect a buyer to pay top dollar for a rig that isn’t perfect. A corollary to this is to reduce your price by the estimated cost of repairs and have estimates from a reputable shop to support you. I have sold every boat and RV I have owned in one week or less because everything is fixed and I price at the bottom of the market.
2. ANSWER YOUR ENQUIRIES PROMPTLY. You cannot sell it if you don’t communicate. Over the last several months, I estimate that less than half of my enquiries received any response. Even if the unit has been sold, take a few seconds to email a courteous reply.
3. My experience has shown that the first offer is usually the best offer. And, it will probably be less than you think is a fair price. Don’t be insulted if the offer is way below what you expect. If you keep lines of communication open, respond in a polite and reasonable manner and suggest a compromise, there is still a chance for a sale. The offer may be low but you have an interested buyer so don’t run him/her off.
4. Regardless of the asset, it has a “shelf life”. If you haven’t received an offer within 30 days, something is wrong, probably several things. Usually, the problem is that the price is high for the condition.
5. Don’t get emotional.

For Buyer:

1. Golden Rule: Take your time. Understand the market. If you are new to RVs and airstream ask for help.
2. Don’t get caught up in the deal. You see this on EBay often. People get caught up in the bidding and overpay. Be prepared to walk away.
3. Don't get emotional.

[aceflys]

I could have wrote this statement. I have lived by these rules for many years. I have sold everything from smalley's on Ebay, bikes, cars, boats and even a few airplanes. I have found the same thing too. Price thing right and being honest with buyers. Doing this has resulted in quick sales and happy buyers. When buying to resell. I find you make your money on the buy. Not on the sales. Thanks for your input.

[rodsterinfl]

I have a question about wear and tear. I ask because I am curious about my own AS. I have upgraded everything to better than new in most cases and replaced things looking worn- skylight, fridge, sound system, tvs, etc. The one thing I cannot change is the exterior scratches from the awning or "use marks" that do not effect performance but just detract from being like when new. How much does this matter in the big picture of value given that everything is cleaned up and working.

Oh, one more thing. If an owner adds features not originally available and these things are almost new (last few years added) how would that impact value? I know on a car things added mean little unless it is a real custom job but RVs are much different I would think. Some things I added are not cheap to add but how does that change value compared to a same year same model comparison? Does it matter?

[Carroe]

Unlike many members, I am not an airstream expert but I do have a background in RVs and boats so I have an understanding of what to look for. To me, all of the items added by the owner would be important in determine the price I would be willing to pay. Start adding up the cost of tires, awnings, refrigerator and similar items and the value can quickly change by thousands of dollars. Likewise, when I see a 10-15 year old rig which is advertised as "original", it suggest that the owner has not taken the time and incurred the expense to keep the unit "as new". An owner who has updated systems may not get a dollar for dollar return, but it will sell quickly.

[rodsterinfl]

Sounds reasonable. All these "toys" are like money pits. I have learned so much from this forum and, while I am no expert either, there are particular things we learn with experience. I have added around $12K of updates, additions, replacements and in a few minor cases, repairs. While this may seem extreme, my friends who own a 2006 30' Class C motorhome they bought new said they spent 5-7K each year since they have owned it on service, repairs and replacements. That is about 40-56K beyond the purchase price. My spending has halted for now as most everything is updated and/or functional.

I guess the "stuff" would make a difference. I am not sure how a scratch here or there would impact a value. I know that I backed into something a year ago and had a panel replaced $$$ but it is now like new again. Now that I have seen more used ones and own one as a second owner, the idea of value, especially when considering wear and tear, is harder to determine. If I were selling mine, I would want top dollar as It is not average in equipment; however, that too could be tempered by any external marks. I have come to overlook the latter as I have seen how easy such things happen - a tiny twig on the end of a tree moving along the side as you pull in/out etc. I guess it all relates to your point #4 on shelf life.

[Bigskyrider8]

Sounds like jumping joe is prepping us to buy and flip an Airstream..........

[Carroe]

JumpingJoe is not buying and flipping. You have missed the point. When buying an asset, the value is in buying correctly. The worst buy is a very nice unit is good condition. The value is in an unit which is in extremely good condition or one that can be restored and updated. Of course, I expected critical comments. If you disagree on the facts, great. But personal attacks are unwarranted.

[Bigskyrider8]

Not a personal attack Joe......."Don't take it personal"

Wish you the best.

[featherbedder]

Buy & sell what you think it's worth to you & to h=== what every one else thinks as it's your deal....

[Carroe]

Thank you BigSkyRider8. I apologize if I misunderstood your comment.

[Charca]

Is there any source to determine the approximate dealer cost in order to make an offer on a new Flying Cloud 25 FB?

[sinjin]

Originally Posted by JumpingJoe

A Perspective on Buying and Selling

Over the years, I have had a passion for buying and selling almost everything, including real estate, boats, RVs and whatever looked appealing at the time. Almost always, I was able to do this profitably. Recently, I have been shopping for an airstream, for the reasons all you own them: they are the best around. During my search, I have encountered the same issues that I have seen over and over when dealing with other assets. So, please consider this perspective, whether you are shopping or selling:

For Sellers:

1. Clean up your rig and fix everything that needs repair. Don’t expect a buyer to pay top dollar for a rig that isn’t perfect. A corollary to this is to reduce your price by the estimated cost of repairs and have estimates from a reputable shop to support you. I have sold every boat and RV I have owned in one week or less because everything is fixed and I price at the bottom of the market.
2. ANSWER YOUR ENQUIRIES PROMPTLY. You cannot sell it if you don’t communicate. Over the last several months, I estimate that less than half of my enquiries received any response. Even if the unit has been sold, take a few seconds to email a courteous reply.
3. My experience has shown that the first offer is usually the best offer. And, it will probably be less than you think is a fair price. Don’t be insulted if the offer is way below what you expect. If you keep lines of communication open, respond in a polite and reasonable manner and suggest a compromise, there is still a chance for a sale. The offer may be low but you have an interested buyer so don’t run him/her off.
4. Regardless of the asset, it has a “shelf life”. If you haven’t received an offer within 30 days, something is wrong, probably several things. Usually, the problem is that the price is high for the condition.
5. Don’t get emotional.

For Buyer:

1. Golden Rule: Take your time. Understand the market. If you are new to RVs and airstream ask for help.
2. Don’t get caught up in the deal. You see this on EBay often. People get caught up in the bidding and overpay. Be prepared to walk away.
3. Don't get emotional.

Sounds right to me. We sold an airplane and a house at the height of the latest crash, both within a week of putting them on the market.

[Wingeezer]

It sounds as though from all the things we read these days - especially in relationship to the internet that both buyers and sellers also need to be very careful about the honesty of the person they are dealing with!

I'm not looking to sell at present, but the concern has passed through my mind that if/when I do, and assuming our AS is still worth a reasonable amount - enough to be concerned about losing(!) - how to best protect myself when selling.

I think I would almost insist on a cash payment - but then, I don't know how reasonable a request that might be, and in any case, with my luck, I could wind up with counterfeit notes!

Brian.

[BoldAdventure]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

I think I would almost insist on a cash payment - but then, I don't know how reasonable a request that might be, and in any case, with my luck, I could wind up with counterfeit notes!

Brian.

It's a bit unreasonable these days unless you are dealing with amounts under 10K USD. Withdrawals of cash over 10K will cause an IRS inquiry and a blip on the DHS radar. Basically your bank will make you fill out a form stating why you want this cash, and that you're not a terrorist or money laundering. Plus, who walks around with the kind of cash these things sell for.

I pay cash, but never with actual cash.

You can go two routes. Direct wire transfer, which is instant and can be done at your bank or the buyers bank.

Or request a certified cashiers check/bank check.

Have the buyer go to your bank, and have your bank call the other bank to verify the funds before depositing.

You can also use an actual bill of sale (for example, Florida's DMV http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/forms/btr/82050.pdf), and request to see their drivers license to verify their identity.

Depending on how much you are selling, someone using bank financing might be a safer bet. Generally rather than getting funds from a person to yourself, you are getting funds promised from the bank to you.

Also, if you have a credit union, and the buyer has a credit union, the funds transfer will skip the 3-4 day hold that most banks do, since most CU's are all within the national network.

I recently sold a vehicle to a young man who was getting financing to buy the car, and he had Army Federal, and we have Navy Federal. NFCU verified the funds for me, and then they were immediately available. Just one more reason I'll probably never leave a credit union. I could never get that from BB&T or even with my Charles Swchab account without a hold or it being wire transfer.

BTW, make sure it's a actual wire transfer and not electronic transfer. Wire's generally have a fee and are instant. Electronic is usually free and think of it as a bank draft. Usually faster than a check, but can take a day sometimes.

Really, just be smart about things and you can save yourself a lot of headache.

-------------------------------

As for the clean thing, yes, please clean things when asking a high dollar value. And please be realistic. And buyers shouldn't insult sellers either.

I was selling a collectors car just last month. 2009 Pontiac G8 GXP #43 of only 82 like mine produced in the country. Only 1650 G8 GXP's were ever produced. And at the time, only 4 where for sale. I had the lowest price, and I had two people, call and offer me 10K less and then proceed to tell me I would never sell it. Well, I did sell it, very quickly because I was the most realistic seller, listing mine for 27K while the others where still trying to ask 33-35K. When someone has a good price on the market, try not to be a total dick. I understand that some people are just looking for a good deal, but geez. Don't come back and insult the seller.

End of rant.

[Wingeezer]

Originally Posted by BoldAdventure

It's a bit unreasonable these days unless you are dealing with amounts under 10K USD. Withdrawals of cash over 10K will cause an IRS inquiry and a blip on the DHS radar. Basically your bank will make you fill out a form stating why you want this cash, and that you're not a terrorist or money laundering. Plus, who walks around with the kind of cash these things sell for.

I sold my previous "non-AS" trailer to a buyer in the US who found my ad on an internet forum for the make of trailer. (I am in Canada)

We had several phone conversations and he seemed a very genuine person - there was not a whole lot of $$ involved, about $8k as I recall.

After exchange of many JPEGS, he agreed to buy the trailer sight unseen, then we started to discuss payment.

I suggested a bank draft (I'm not really sure of the terminology) but he told me his bank had some problem in giving him one since the $$ was being sent out of the country. Seemed odd - he said his bank told him their policy related to changes made after 9-11.

So I suggested he bring cash as it wasn't that much, but he was reluctant to travel with the cash.

I spoke with my bank to see what they might suggest and they wanted me to be very cautious in view of frequent scams.

Seems that some forms of transfer that might seem totally legit but could result in me getting the $$ right away only to find out weeks later that it was a scam, then the bank would be after me to return the $ and I would be the one out of pocket!

What they finally suggested was for me to have the other party bring American Express traveller's cheques for the amount, then when he arrived at our place for both of us to come to my bank branch together with the cheques.

We did that, and when we arrived at the bank, the bank contacted American Express regarding the serial numbers of the cheques and confirmed to whom they were issued before they would accept them and turn over the cash to my buyer who then gave it to me!

It all seemed to work fine - I don't know if this is a commonly used method?

All through this, I felt very embarrassed to be dealing in this manner with the buyer as he seemed totally honest and indeed was. We have visited each others homes and still keep in touch years later!

He understood and did not take offense!

But you just never know!

Brian

[BoldAdventure]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

I suggested a bank draft (I'm not really sure of the terminology) but he told me his bank had some problem in giving him one since the $$ was being sent out of the country. Seemed odd - he said his bank told him their policy related to changes made after 9-11.

Yup, this is common now.

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

So I suggested he bring cash as it wasn't that much, but he was reluctant to travel with the cash.

I wonder if there are issues crossing the border with large sums?

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

I spoke with my bank to see what they might suggest and they wanted me to be very cautious in view of frequent scams.

Seems that some forms of transfer that might seem totally legit but could result in me getting the $$ right away only to find out weeks later that it was a scam, then the bank would be after me to return the $ and I would be the one out of pocket!

This is pretty common. Here is what happens with this scam. The person will say they are giving you a check or western union for 10,000 instead of your asking $8,000 and say that you can keep $1000 for your "effort" if you just give them back the other $1000. They'd make off with $1000 and when the check came back bad, you'd have to foot the whole bill.

I'm amazed people can't spot this, but hey, people still fall for Prince Ambubabbbado-da in Africa scams apparently.

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

What they finally suggested was for me to have the other party bring American Express traveller's cheques for the amount, then when he arrived at our place for both of us to come to my bank branch together with the cheques.

We did that, and when we arrived at the bank, the bank contacted American Express regarding the serial numbers of the cheques and confirmed to whom they were issued before they would accept them and turn over the cash to my buyer who then gave it to me!

It all seemed to work fine - I don't know if this is a commonly used method?

All through this, I felt very embarrassed to be dealing in this manner with the buyer as he seemed totally honest and indeed was. We have visited each others homes and still keep in touch years later!

He understood and did not take offense!

But you just never know!

Brian

Seems legit. And probably best for over the boarder transactions. Don't' be afraid to ask your bank to call the other bank and verify funds. That's what they are there for! Or to ask how to handle things.

Thanks for sharing that Wingeezer

[polarlyse]

I did a large purchase a few years ago. Not my Airstream but the truck we tow with. It was an E-Bay deal that had expired. I contacted and negotiated a price with the seller and sent him a $2k deposit by check. It took several weeks to put together the plan to fly to St. Louis to pick it up but we did and I brought a bank check for the full amount. The seller had told me that he did not deposit my check but would simply return it to me when we met. We met, drove to his bank to deposit the check. It was after business hours at my east coast bank and his bank couldn't confirm funds availability to the next business day and the title was held by the bank anyway. So he gave me my deposit check and the truck. He would hold the title until the bank confirmed payment and we drove the truck home. Everybody shootin straight and all well in the end. I would be careful EVEN with a cash transaction. I don't think I could tell a good counterfeit bill if I saw one.

These scammers have gotten very slick but there are a few honest people out there.

[matisseflys]

Jumping Joe,

I appreciate your thoughts on buying and selling. Right now I am looking for a vintage airstream and have had various troubles. About 1/3 of the ads I answer are scams. I found one I want and the seller, whose ad was recently posted, hasn't answered me. I sent two emails and feel like a girl waiting for her date to call again. Two previous ones I considered sold very quickly. One I rejected as being too much work, and two I didn't even get to see because they sold. I am trying to focus on my part of the country, which is the North east. It's been very frustrating. My husband assures me that I will find one, but the unanswered queries bug me the most.

[Foiled Again]

Originally Posted by matisseflys

Jumping Joe,

I appreciate your thoughts on buying and selling. Right now I am looking for a vintage airstream and have had various troubles. About 1/3 of the ads I answer are scams. I found one I want and the seller, whose ad was recently posted, hasn't answered me. I sent two emails and feel like a girl waiting for her date to call again. Two previous ones I considered sold very quickly. One I rejected as being too much work, and two I didn't even get to see because they sold. I am trying to focus on my part of the country, which is the North east. It's been very frustrating. My husband assures me that I will find one, but the unanswered queries bug me the most.

Unanswered Queries - one thing you might not be considering is that many people lead disorganized lives (Who Moi?). They might post an ad on e-bay, craigslist, and five other sites... then not remember to check for replies on all of them regularly. Also, far far too often lately people are selling their valuable stuff because they are in extreme financial distress. Unloading the Airstream might make up three delinquent mortgage payments... but the flood of stress that they're getting as foreclosure looms, and all the other bill collectors are circling and on and on. Panic doesn't lead to good decision making so everything slides. And of course if the Airstream DID sell on day three lots of people don't remember to go back and update all of their ads - or they may just not know how to update the ad.

Let me suggest some simpler approaches. Call every RV dealer within 50 miles and ask if they ever get an Airstream in on a trade to give you a call. Call every campground in the same range and ask if they have any Airstreams sitting neglected in storage. Would they be kind enough to call the owner and pass your name on a s someone who might be interested in it. Drive around to big storage yards that store RV's - ditto.

Join your local WBCCI or at least visit and ask if anyone is buying a new one and might want to sell the old one directly... or if anyone is retiring from traveling and would like to see the family Airstream go to a new home.

Might be more fruitful.

Paula

[karenjude]

I recently sold my B190 on the forum classifieds. About 50 % of the queries went directly into my spam folder ( including the one from the person I ended up selling it to). You may want to check there in case you are getting some responses that you haven't seen.