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Old 03-05-2012, 09:03 AM   #101
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Why are the twin mattresses so narrow? I am guessing these are sized to fit the industry standard bunk beds and AS does not want to spend more for the correct width or comfort. I can’t find any of the old pictures, but remember the 79 twins to be full width as well as way more comfortable. I was considering getting different “softer” toppers at my wife’s insistence instead of buying new custom mattresses but I want the extra 3 inches of width. I will also need to install new 6 inch wider support decking on both sides as they are currently 3 inches short of supporting the current mattresses with them back against the wall 7 inches short if forward.

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Old 03-05-2012, 09:10 AM   #102
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I made the twin bed platforms wider and took the dining table to a cabinet maker that cut down the width and put new edge molding to replace the factory crap. These fixes cost me about $40 or $50 bucks. Done at the factory couldn't cost more than $5.
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:26 AM   #103
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Collimare, our 2007 Airstream Safari 20' had the narrower dinette table and support strips screwed to the benches as you describe. The dinette table folded down to a flush surface. However the narrower table was too far away from the seat backs for comfort, so we used the supplied throw pillows behind our backs to sit closer. Something tells me you would complain about this as well.

We don't have the twin beds, but would you be happier if the mattresses were wider and the passage narrower? Or would the passage be too narrow for you?

Take some moments to enjoy the many pleasures this wonderful camper gives you. You are nit picking.

doug k
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:26 AM   #104
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Collimare, our 2007 Airstream Safari 20' had the narrower dinette table and support strips screwed to the benches as you describe. The dinette table folded down to a flush surface. However the narrower table was too far away from the seat backs for comfort, so we used the supplied throw pillows behind our backs to sit closer. Something tells me you would complain about this as well.

We don't have the twin beds, but would you be happier if the mattresses were wider and the passage narrower? Or would the passage be too narrow for you?

Take some moments to enjoy the many pleasures this wonderful camper gives you. You are nit picking.

doug k
My back does not rest on the cushions with the wider table and sitting full sideways to watch the flat screen can be a bit tight. We add pillows or remove the wall fillers as needed, no complaints as that is what they are there for.
Yes I can live with a narrow passage in favor of better sleep. If the mattresses are full forward the passage is just as narrow now. The mattresses float back and forth and could be 3 inches wider filing the full width of the mattress area and everything is the same except making the supports wider which they should be anyway.
Why is it nit picking (seems to be a common theme here) when my 1979 Airstream 25RB Twin and the last two 1/2 price new trailers were, higher quality, easier to use, more comfortable and reliable. Is this going to be a continued don't step on the toes because it is an Airstream? Really??
Now you can blast me all you want for not checking the dang thing out first but that is about it.
It was 60k and I feel I have a right to nit pick, complain and lament the poor quality and execution.
That is just the attitude that has allowed and will most likely maintain the current poor quality. The louder the complaints, the sooner sales drop off to nothing the sooner it will turn around. Sad, but appears to be true.
I personally feel this is the place to air the laundry, if not to help force quality changes then at least new buyers will be aware or should we just keep silent and take our lumps for the sake of the brotherhood.
Sorry the salt is still there and it seems like I am boxing the wind. Am I talking to AS managment?
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:28 AM   #105
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I suppose nit picking is in the eyes of the beholder. What bothers one person is fine with another. There are some things Collimare finds unacceptable that wouldn't bother me, but maybe some things I don't like wouldn't bother me. It could be said that he is overreacting, but when you buy a "premium" trailer and it isn't premium quality, the first reaction of many people would be the same and I think it is understandable.

On his long list there are many things that either come up year after year, or are worth complaining about.

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Old 03-05-2012, 12:10 PM   #106
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No not Airstream management, just trying to find the good in each day. I suppose advancing years, surviving cancer and such has done it to me.

Collimare, is the trailer really that miserable? I don't see how it can be, we have same year similar model and it is virtually perfect. Our 2007 was nearly as good. What is the point in "padding" your complaint list with a bunch of stuff that you did not suit your personal wishes. Or "dust in the corners" stuff. Or many things your dealer should have done before you got it, and not name the dealer as culprit, just blame Airstream.

They have sold a load of 2012 Airstreams this year and that is the focus of the thread, yet earlier owners keep coming back with their complaints. Or non-owners. Where's the several hundred who are satisfied.

Maybe you can complain enough, fluff it up a bit, to get something out of it. I don't see it that way. If there are problems, fix it and move on. Tell us your solution.

Maybe I'm just tired of the bitching.

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Old 03-05-2012, 02:27 PM   #107
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Maybe I'm just tired of the bitching.

doug k
I wish there was no reason to, but you are so right. My sincere apologies as this whole thing has gotten the best of me and I am moving on with it.
Best of wishes to all and happy trailering.
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:19 PM   #108
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My back does not rest on the cushions with the wider table and sitting full sideways to watch the flat screen can be a bit tight. We add pillows or remove the wall fillers as needed, no complaints as that is what they are there for.
Yes I can live with a narrow passage in favor of better sleep. If the mattresses are full forward the passage is just as narrow now. The mattresses float back and forth and could be 3 inches wider filing the full width of the mattress area and everything is the same except making the supports wider which they should be anyway.
Why is it nit picking (seems to be a common theme here) when my 1979 Airstream 25RB Twin and the last two 1/2 price new trailers were, higher quality, easier to use, more comfortable and reliable. Is this going to be a continued don't step on the toes because it is an Airstream? Really??
Now you can blast me all you want for not checking the dang thing out first but that is about it.
It was 60k and I feel I have a right to nit pick, complain and lament the poor quality and execution.
That is just the attitude that has allowed and will most likely maintain the current poor quality. The louder the complaints, the sooner sales drop off to nothing the sooner it will turn around. Sad, but appears to be true.
I personally feel this is the place to air the laundry, if not to help force quality changes then at least new buyers will be aware or should we just keep silent and take our lumps for the sake of the brotherhood.
Sorry the salt is still there and it seems like I am boxing the wind. Am I talking to AS managment?
We had the 2007 27' Classic and I felt the same way about the end dinette and the uncomfortable cushions and too wide a table to sit sideways. I sold it and opted for an older couch model and find it much more comfortable for me. I did think for the price the loose cushions and table to bed design was poorly engineered as is. We have had Airstreams since 2003 and we are on our 5th and 6th newer model units, the first four brand new the second two gently used. We have had various trim levels and floor plans and are currently enjoying our latest choices. Style and layout can considerably affect your personal comfort and satisfaction. It is very unique to the individual and Airstream makes many kinds for many different tastes. A modification would probably be done without too much trouble once you decide your priority and preference. I understand perfectly wanting your Airstream to be "the" one of your dreams and obsessing until you are comfortable with it. Been there done that, as well as more than a few others here have done also. Don't be put off by comments. It is your Airstream and your opinion to express. Not everyone feels the same. Take what you can use and shake off what is not useful to you in the way of comments. Hang in there. Don't go. See Pahaska's thread on widening the twin bed platforms and all his custom work. http://www.airforums.com/forums/f296...8-a-17610.html
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:52 PM   #109
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another dinette rant.

I went tent camping with my sons on the Hoh river last weekend and even though I still don't like the front dinette arrangement after two nights in a tent I love the rest of it. I suppose I will get used to all of the little things i find annoying or change them. I'm done complaining, everything is a trade off. If all of the little quality fixes were initiated into the manufacturing process the trailers would be much more expensive. I'ts called "value engineering". I'm sorry some people become irritated by complaints. In my opinion the word forum is just that, say what you feel. These forums are digital soapboxes, so lets use them. My back still hurts.

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Old 03-13-2012, 12:56 PM   #110
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I know this is about 2012s, but I will post this anyway..
We went to pick up a new 2011 23'FB Flying Cloud on Saturday.
I had called ahead several times to make sure all would be ready.
After 5 hr drive, we found it to be less then perfect.
The awning bracket on the right side where the wheel type fitting screws down to hold it in place against the trailer in the retracted position wouldn't screw in.
After looking at it closely, I realized they had a left bracket on the right side. The "cup" area that the little wheel screws down into, was on the underside of the bracket. There was no way it would hold..
Then when I filled the fresh water tank, we noticed water dripping from a cover plate below the tank. The technician found a leak (hole) in the hose running to or from the tank. I asked for the hose to be replaced, not repaired.
Then when we turned on the pump, it sounded like a machine gun going off.
They are replacing the hoses running to the tank with flexible lines?? I guess that will quiet it a bit? Hope so..
Also, none of the blinds seemed to want to stay in the plastic clips they are supposed to clip into at the bottom. Just one of the two screws were used on each clip.. Does this clip system really work? Or, should we raise the blinds up to the top when we are on the road? There's no way they will hold them against the windows.

Lots of other small stuff, I will take care of, but I was a little surprised these issues weren't seen in Jackson Center..
We hope to get it in a few weeks..

The surprise upside was we thought it had a cloth interior, it had the soft vinyl/leather like seats. They seemed pretty nice..
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Old 03-13-2012, 02:09 PM   #111
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Here is where the cushions will need to be cut back to (2 3/8” back on the door side and 3 3/8” on the far side) in order for the table to drop straight down. I can reposition the Velcro to keep both cushions in place for table up and table down. I don't like it one bit but have the cushions in the car to drop them off at the upholstery shop. Currently the table sits up on top of the seat supports and the cushions then lay on top of the table making it uneven on both sides. I will ultimately need to have all new cushions made to fit it properly. The seat backs need to be taller now as well as thinner so the bed surface is flat and even all the way across. The way it should have been done:

Table should be narrower.
Door side seat bottom should have a lip sticking out 1/2 – 5/8” just under the seat support.
Same on the far side.
Far side storage door and heater vent vertical should be cut down to fit under the lip.
Table should drop straight down just missing the cushions resting on the lips, trapped as well as flush.
New cushions that fit the new configuration so the bed is tight and flat.

I could see a whole new layout that would maximize the table width but it would be even more involved.

This would not really cost any extra to do it right from the start. Why??

On that table picture,..I couldn't sittheree for long....after awhile the cushion would compress and the wood would hurt the bottom of my legs. We enjoy playing scrabble there,,for hours at a time,...not for me.

Shane
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Old 03-13-2012, 03:09 PM   #112
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Hello,
Did you catch any steelhead? The last time I was there at the take out by highway,I buried my one wheel drive chevy and raining heavy and water was above hubcaps before tow truck arrived. Since that time four wheel for me. Love the Hoh.
Pete
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Old 03-13-2012, 04:24 PM   #113
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Cool

Pete, we caught two, but they were so beat up they were only good for smoking which I am doing now. I told my boys we would have caught ten good ones if we had brought the Airstream but they wanted the tent. Something about me being to fussy with my new toy. Imagine that.
Dan
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:20 PM   #114
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I had made a new vs. old post awhile ago. I looked at the new AS line up at an RV show here, and I saw flaws in the products at the show and I felt a little sad.I saw many shortcomings on the 2012 units which concerned me. I was thinking about selling my 74 and getting a new one, but reconsidered after the RV show. Despite my expressed concerns,I had a lot of people more for buying new than old.
Before I get beat up, I love Airstreams. I love my 74'Tradewind. I would love a new one that would be more plug and play, however, Buying my vintage AS kept me from having a huge payment for 18 years. Canadian pricing thankfully is now on par with U.S. pricing. In 2009 the Flying cloud 25' FB we were going to buy was listed at $85,000.00 and now a 2012 is $65,000.00. Sure glad we chickened out and bought our Tradewind for $10,000.00.I have been able to take it out and use it and I look forward to this summer and new adventures! It's work in progress and I never have enough time to do all of the projects I have on my list. I know that I will be spending thousands to get things where I want them, not to mention the countless hours of work ahead of me.That is the big trade off. Listening to the new owners issues makes me feel better about my older Trailer. I do know that Airstreams are better built than any other trailer out there, but it does not make the issues out of the gate acceptable. I used to work for Pleasure Way in Quality control and they have extremely high standards. We did not have "good enough" in our vocabulary. I am proud of the Van Motor homes we built while I was there. They have done nothing but improve since then.Our biggest issues there were the Dodge vans we used and the RV equipment we had to install. Doing that QC job there made me very fussy. I understand that AS owners hold their products to a very high standard, Which is understandable with the high price tags on these new units. If the day comes where my wife and I buy a new one I will not settle for substandard.
I am sorry to hear of all the shortcomings on your new units. Hold Airstream accountable. Don't take "good enough" as a warranty solution. Remember that you have that warranty for a short time and use it. Despite your pains..Nothing looks prettier in your rear view mirror than the sun setting on your trailer, and you are not a sheep pulling an SOB!!
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:00 AM   #115
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On that table picture,..I couldn't sittheree for long....after awhile the cushion would compress and the wood would hurt the bottom of my legs. We enjoy playing scrabble there,,for hours at a time,...not for me.

Shane
Hi Shane, The picture was only an illustration of where they needed to be to drop the table straight down not where they will be to sit on.

I just got the new bottom cushions back from the shop for fitment. I had them move the Velcro back to match the cut back on the front. They will sit out over the lip/edge just like they did from the factory. The only difference now is that I can simply lift up the front edge up and slide them back to drop the table down.

I took measurements to make the new backrests/center cushions. They are now matched taller/wider and thinner so the bed surface is flat instead of having to high ridges where the table is sitting on top of the seat decks.

I also took all the other cushions to the shop to have them install Velcro to keep them together and against the wall so they don't all wind up on the floor every time we move it. Once I have the new backrests/center cushions back and Velcro on all the other pieces it will be as it should have come from the factory. Why only one strip of Velcro holding the door side back rest to the bolster spacer and not the rest? Why is there no Velcro to hold them to the wall?? Why are there no zipper protectors (fold over flap of material installed with the zipper) to keep the zippers from scuffing the walls??? Another thing the upholstery shop could not believe.

The brand new material I just got direct from Airstream was a significantly darker shade of the exact pattern. The upholstery shop was again shocked that it was brand new and that far off. He thought my current "new" cushions were 5 years old because they look faded compared to the "newer" material. I may wind up having them all remade out of the new material so they match, but will wait till they are all back in. Hopefully the new backrests standing up will not be that noticeable. I am just going to put them in and see if my wife notices. If she does I will have them all remade. If I had known I would have had it all re-done with quality material. More learning!
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Old 03-14-2012, 05:44 AM   #116
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Hey chefmardigan, would you consider a move to Jackson Center?!!!

Soundz like you have the perfect background that could be put to good use at the house that Wally built. They like to insist that they are aware of the ongoing QC concerns, but it seems aware is all they are.

Some folks here are starting threads when they have appointments at JC to address these problems, praising to Wally how great the experience is. How much better it would be if they could express that elation after using their new Airstreams for the first time?

Maybe these threads will help, but right now the only thing they seem to be accomplishing is enforcing a fact that most of us are already aware of…..that the service side is much better at taking pride in what they do for the customer than the build side.

Have fun in your 74, we also enjoyed our 63 for 18 Seasons before moving to the not so shiny side.

The gleam has returned over time but not without considerable effort on our part, unfortunately that effort does not make the payments on the initial investment…bright side, paid off three years ago, so we no longer feel we are paying for the privilege of fixing things that never should have happened in the first place.

Sweet Streams

Bob
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Old 03-14-2012, 08:25 AM   #117
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"Some folks here are starting threads when they have appointments at JC to address these problems, praising to Wally how great the experience is. How much better it would be if they could express that elation after using their new Airstreams for the first time? "


Exactly! Now that would be a real "Hallmark Moment".
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Old 03-14-2012, 08:41 AM   #118
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Hey chefmardigan, would you consider a move to Jackson Center?!!!

Soundz like you have the perfect background that could be put to good use at the house that Wally built. They like to insist that they are aware of the ongoing QC concerns, but it seems aware is all they are.
I don't think chef' would be hired at the factory because they want someone in QC to tell them what they want to hear. I was told a couple of years ago by the company president that they do have QC people; I said it was hard to believe they did.

But the complaints about Airstream QC had dropped significantly in the last few years. That was a good sign, but now it seems things are going in reverse. When production was lowest during the Great Recession, maybe the best workers had time to build them better and now things are speeding up and less experienced workers are being hired?

These threads must be frustrating to the people who work at Airstream. Some may be embarrassed, some may wish the company did better and others may wish the Forum would go away.

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Old 03-14-2012, 09:41 AM   #119
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"Some folks here are starting threads when they have appointments at JC to address these problems, praising to Wally how great the experience is. How much better it would be if they could express that elation after using their new Airstreams for the first time? "


Exactly! Now that would be a real "Hallmark Moment".



Bob
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Old 03-14-2012, 10:05 AM   #120
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We have been thrilled with our 2012 Airstream as well as our last one, a 2007. And we use it, been in it 5 months since buying it 6 months ago. The first one was good, but the 2012 is virtually perfect.

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