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Cristina1966 · 10-26-2007, 10:01 PM

Hi,
I bought a 1966 Sovereign in August and the seller was going to mail me the title. He did not send it to me and I am starting the process to bring this to court. It would be very useful for me to know the cons of not having a title. Can I still register the trailer in my name? The trailer was $5,000 (with the title). How much is it worth without a title? Can I sell the trailer without a title? Any other information you may have on this issue will be grately appreciated. What if the trailer was stolen?
Thanks,
Cris

2airishuman · 10-26-2007, 10:19 PM

hi cris

varies from state2state but generally without a title...

no can register
no can insure
no can tag
no can sell

it can be parked (hidden) in the back yard, maybe.

selling price is based on what another person is wiling to pay and no title is an issue.

most states have a process for issuing new, salvage or other 're-titles' cali does too...

here is a thread to get ya started,

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f352...-so-20817.html

but there is also a section just on this issue...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f352/

Quote:

What if the trailer was stolen?

one of the many reasons why titles are useful...

cheers
2air'

CaddyGrn · 10-26-2007, 10:34 PM

We have "lost" titles before on vehicles in California. If you go to DMV and talk to a real person... tell them you bought the trailer and show them the bill of sale, etc. they can reissue a new title on it. It isn't a big deal. Mostly California wants their fees.... If you aren't sure what you need you can fill out some form that says the title was lost or stolen... something like that. I wouldn't go to the expense of taking this guy to court unless it costs you a lot....

If the trailer hasn't been registered for something like 5 years it falls off the DMV data base and it is easier to reissue title. Otherwise if they didn't pay their yearly fees for tags, you will likely be charged. I would go with whatever paperwork you have and ask DMV what you can or cannot do. Just don't go on a Friday afternoon when the lines are long and ugly!

Good luck!

Mrs. NorCal Bambi (traveling in S Tardis ~ from the Great State of Jefferson)

Cristina1966 · 10-26-2007, 10:54 PM

Hi,
I went to the DMV today and the woman said that the DMV cannot issue another title because there is only one title, and I don't have it. She said that the seller would have to sign a new duplicate anyway. From your suggestion, it seems like I need to try another person at DMV.

I have a bill of sale and the trailer is registered this year. I also have the address and email of the seller but he won't return calls or emails. The seller might be avoiding me because he said that everything worked on the trailer but nothing actually did. And he knew it. At this point, I just want the title, as I already fixed many things.

urbanfood · 10-26-2007, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristina1966

Hi,
I went to the DMV today and the woman said that the DMV cannot issue another title because there is only one title, and I don't have it. She said that the seller would have to sign a new one anyway. I have a bill of sale and the RV is registered this year. I also have the address and email of the seller but he won't return calls or emails. The seller might be avoiding me because he said that everything worked on the trailer but nothing actually did. And he knew it. At this point, I just want to title.

huh, that's strange. i'd call or go back to DMV and ask to speak to a supervisor. there has to be a way to get you a new title with the bill of sale. it doesn't sound like this is going to be easy, but as with many things in life, keep pressing at the DMV and i'm sure someone will point you in right direction. don't leave there until you get the info you want.

2airishuman · 10-26-2007, 11:26 PM

hi cris

so in THIS case it appears issuing a NEW title is problematic because...

a current title and registration ALREADY exist.

from the dmv person's perspective this one is still 'on the books'

try sending the seller a registered letter and a box of cookies!

cheers
2air'

juel · 10-26-2007, 11:51 PM

You could try the registered letter, giving the Seller the information that you have given us. That is, that you are not interested in taking them to court or getting your money back from a misrepresented trailer. You would just like to have the title. Since the registration is current it may be possible for the police to check on whether the trailer is listed as stolen. I know I personally was able to register a trailer with a Bill of Sale in Oklahoma, with very little trouble.

47WeeWind · 10-27-2007, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristina1966

Hi, I went to the DMV today and the woman said that the DMV cannot issue another title because there is only one title, and I don't have it. She said that the seller would have to sign a new duplicate anyway. From your suggestion, it seems like I need to try another person at DMV.

I have a bill of sale and the trailer is registered this year. I also have the address and email of the seller but he won't return calls or emails. The seller might be avoiding me because he said that everything worked on the trailer but nothing actually did. And he knew it. At this point, I just want the title, as I already fixed many things.

Hi Christina:

The DMV clerk told you the straight poop. Ownership of a vehicle like an Airstream trailer is represented by a piece of paper called a "certificate of title." Although you paid money to someone and have physical possession of a trailer, you do not yet "own" the trailer. The person whose name is still on the original certificate of title still "owns" the trailer, and if that person sues you for possession of the trailer, he/she/they will win and you will lose.

You obtain ownership of a vehicle by having the original current "certificate of title" transferred to you by the present owner. If the person you "bought" the trailer from cannot, or will not, transfer or deliver to you a properly endorsed certificate of title for the trailer, you do not own it, plain and simple.

How do you know the person you "bought" the trailer from actually owned it? Right now, you don't. All you received was an unofficial piece of paper.

Is the person who "sold" you the trailer that same person who the Calif. DMV records show is owner on the certificate of title? Whose name is on the missing certificate of title? That person is the owner, and only that person can transfer ownership to you.

Don't waive any claims or rights against the "seller", especially in writing. Demand the seller transfer the certificate of title to you or hire a lawyer to sue the seller to do that or return all your money. Otherwise, the more money you put into the trailer, the more you are improving it for the actual owner.

Generally, California will not issue another certificate of title for the trailer unless the present owner, the person whose name is on the certificate of title you don't have, files an affidavit that he/she lost it and posts a lost instrument bond that indemnifies the State of California from damages if the real holder of the original certificate of title later shows up with the "not lost" original certificate of title and demands possession of the trailer.

Bottom line: you do not "own" the trailer, so be cautious in improving it for the benefit of the real owner. Demand or sue the seller to fulfill his/her promises to you that he/she would deliver a certificate of title for the trailer. Best wishes and good luck.

**azflycaster** · 10-27-2007, 08:28 AM

Very good advise from Fred! You are currently in a not very good position. Years ago this same thing happened to a friend of mine with a used car. He found out later that the sellers wife had been awarded the car as part of their divorce. He lost the car and was going to sue the seller, but he had moved away and was never heard from again. The sellers wife offered to sell the car to him again, but the car had bad Karma and he declined.

Mike Lewis · 10-27-2007, 10:34 AM

I would be really carefull about investing more money and work into the trailer until you have title in hand. A title is proof of ownership. At this point someone could walk in with title and hand and claim THEIR trailer !!!
pieman

bobchevy89 · 10-27-2007, 02:04 PM

one other thing, he might have used it foe a loan and the title is security for loan. have had that happen.

byamcaravanner · 10-27-2007, 03:20 PM

Cris,

Give this place a try. A guy I know that buys old trucks has used them to get titles for "bill of sale" purchases with great success.

International Title Service
3342 S. Sandhill Rd.
Las Vegas, NV 89121
(702) 456-4027
Lost car title and old car title or vehicle titles -International Title Service

urbanfood · 10-27-2007, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 47WeeWind

Bottom line: you do not "own" the trailer, so be cautious in improving it for the benefit of the real owner. Demand or sue the seller to fulfill his/her promises to you that he/she would deliver a certificate of title for the trailer. Best wishes and good luck.

fred, thanks for setting me straight and clarifying for everyone else. what you said makes total sense.

mistermcfrug · 11-22-2007, 03:42 PM

I completely (and respectfully) disagree with Fred above. Yes, you want to do everything possible to secure the title. On the other hand, you can go to the DMV with your documentation and request a new title. Yes, the response can vary from state to state and even from one clerk to another. But I did this very thing in New Mexico without any difficulty. So I know it can be done!

The state mainly wants its fees as an earlier poster stated. Additionally, in the extreme, I think you can post some kind of bond to assure the state that you are the owner. Clearly, the state knows that people don't tend to steal a trailer, know that the VIN has been reported as stolen, and then seek a title. It just doesn't happen.

I'd visit the DMV again. If it doesn't work, go to another DMV office.

HiHoAgRV · 11-22-2007, 04:30 PM

I had a similar issue when I bought a boat and after the PO moved, I discovered the trailer was titled (rather rare here in Mississippi). I was able to get a Title Bond from a local insurance company. With this I was able to get a clear title. The bottom line was I had to prove to the Bond company I had purchased the unit then they bonded it.

Has your DMV verified the current title is in the PO's name and has no liens?

pmclemore · 11-25-2007, 10:52 AM

I hope that the thief who steals my trailer has to do more than find a compliant clerk at some DMV to get a title for the danged thing.

Pat

fmlm83 · 11-25-2007, 03:14 PM

Since you have made improvements to the TT, I would think that you could go the route of a mechanics lien and abandoned property to get a title.

Cristina1966 · 12-10-2007, 11:49 PM

Hi all,
To keep you posted. It is now December 10 and I got a lawyer to send a registered letter to the seller. The seller refused the letter. I also found someone nice at DMV and they gave me a form for a duplicate title, but it needs to be signed by the seller, who won't respond to me. It seems like the service mentioned above is the last resort.

robandzoe · 12-11-2007, 01:05 AM

Prior to 1972, NYS was a Transferable Registration state. Once you own the trailer for a year, you can fill out a form and state lost / no paperwork and get another transferable registration. It just takes time. Does the DMV know it is a 1966 trailer?

doorgunner · 12-11-2007, 08:57 AM

how big are the worms crawling out of the can??

As a resident of ca. I would suggest you go to dmv and tell them the trailer was abandoned on your property. There is a process for you to become the "owner" this way. But by now they probably have a case file going on it.

I've got 3 airstream products all purchased from private parties here in ca. At the time I forked over the $$ I got the title in my hand with the keys.

It's a shame people are so trusting, now a transfer of wealth with an attorney , my oh my.

another reason why everyone should be born with a fully automatic weapon.