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purman · 10-27-2008, 11:45 AM

Have you heard about this one.... GM is going to the government wanting a bail out because they are losing a ton of money...

Is the government gonna bail my business out if I get in trouble... NO...

What is going on??.... GM is a private business and should work like the rest of us...

Whats next... All the trialer companies going and asking for bail outs because they aren't selling trailers...
AS may be next.....

Man, I can't believe some of the crap going on these days.... They flooded the market and then want a bail out because they aren't selling cars and trucks anymore...

Go figure.. When you flood the market, the flood will recede, but they don't look to the future... just at the short term profit...

redeagle313 · 10-27-2008, 12:14 PM

GM, Ford, and Chrysler have all asked for loan guarantees to help them bridge that gap of the current economic crisis. Is that a bailout? NO, it is a loan, not a gift. Better for the government to offer huge companies loans to keep them going rather than have a hundred thousand plus people unemployed and the resulting ripple effect it would hit the nation with.

DEITZ645 · 10-27-2008, 12:14 PM

Purman,
What about the alleged shenanigans at AIG and the supposed use of the bailout money for corporate parties and executive bonuses. If that is found to be true they should be strung up.

Overlander & Sea · 10-27-2008, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redeagle313

GM, Ford, and Chrysler have all asked for loan guarantees to help them bridge that gap of the current economic crisis. Is that a bailout? NO, it is a loan, not a gift. Better for the government to offer huge companies loans to keep them going rather than have a hundred thousand plus people unemployed and the resulting ripple effect it would hit the nation with.

The Wall Street Journal & the National Automobile Dealers Association are both reporting that General Motors has asked the US Treasury Department for financial aid of $15B to help complete the merger with Chrysler. This is in addition to the $25B loan to GM, Ford, & Chrysler.
I do agree with you that it is better for the federal government to help.

willyd · 10-27-2008, 12:40 PM

Just wait until after the election - we are all going to get bailed out.

**Stefrobrts** · 10-27-2008, 12:44 PM

Careful guys, lets not stray into politics. Remember the rules...

You can complain about the guv'mint, just don't start placing blame and naming names

jimmini · 10-27-2008, 12:55 PM

If you want a LOAN you go to a bank not the Government.

If you want a bailout you go to the Government and get your daily hand out of $$$$$$$$$$$$$.BUT only if you are the BIG fish in the lake.If your the little fish your out of luck they have given your tax $$$ to the BIG fish.

The BIG fish said How'd I get so deep in the hole,and what's my favorite shovel doing here.THE GOVERNMENT.

BIG fish when choosing between two evils,always choose the one with the most chocolate and that is the BIG Government.

You can always trust the Government.ASK any INDAIN.

purman · 10-27-2008, 01:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by redeagle313
GM, Ford, and Chrysler have all asked for loan guarantees to help them bridge that gap of the current economic crisis. Is that a bailout? NO, it is a loan, not a gift. Better for the government to offer huge companies loans to keep them going rather than have a hundred thousand plus people unemployed and the resulting ripple effect it would hit the nation with.

Quote:
Posted by Overlander & Sea
The Wall Street Journal & the National Automobile Dealers Association are both reporting that General Motors has asked the US Treasury Department for financial aid of $15B to help complete the merger with Chrysler. This is in addition to the $25B loan to GM, Ford, & Chrysler.
I do agree with you that it is better for the federal government to help

Yep thats right... It is above and beyond... GM is asking for a bail OUT... I personal I think it's disgraceful...

I don't see Honda, Toyota, BMW, Volvo, Mercedes, Hyundai, or any others asking for a Bail out or loan.... (WELL NOT YET)

Don't spend more than you make.... We don't in our businesses... Maybe if I do I could get a bail out...

purman · 10-27-2008, 01:31 PM

My wife and I are buying the medical building she is in... We are going to the bank for a loan...

Why then doesn't GM... They couldn't get one from a bank thats why....

So the Gov. bails them out with a loan they won't pay back and then they want another 15B free on top of that..... COME ON..... If they need the money now.. what make any of us think they will ever have it to pay back.....

You know who is gonna pay it back,,, US with higher taxes.

Don't let them fool you.....

I've spent plenty of time in socialist countries and believe me it sounds good on paper or to the not so rich,, But it's a BAD thing... and thats what this is... A go at Socialism.. Government involved in to many private business.

HowieE · 10-27-2008, 02:20 PM

At least GM may use the money for what they claim it is for, buying Chrysler.

The big banks all got money to "MAKE LOANS" and get things moving again. They are using that money to "BUY OTHER BANKS". Not sure how that get anything moving.

If you have ever known anyone who got a government loan you know that his Congressman calls that individual a few months later and says "NEVER MIND".

Silvertwinkie · 10-27-2008, 02:27 PM

Ok, let's gaze into a crystal ball and see what a possible future could be.....

Ford fails, followed by GM. Chrysler is a non-issue since they are practically done.

So, Ford fails, bits an pieces get sold/liquidated, tens of thousands of jobs if not more are lost. GM fails, tens of thousand more jobs lost, and the old saying goes if the economy gets a cold the auto industry has pneumonia. But hey, let's say a Chinese company buys up the cheap stock of GM or specifically Ford to save the from ruin, now you have a foreign owned bellweather. The gov would have little way of saying no if it saved hundreds of thousands of jobs........

In this economy with a cold, the automakers have double pneumonia.

If we don't bail out Ford and GM and consolidate now, we stand to loose a real sizable chunk of what is left of manufacturing sector, let alone the last stand of American made, or owned automakers. We're not talking a Subway chain going down, we're talking a major employer in the United States.

Should Boeing, GE or any of the other bellweathers need it, you better believe Uncle Sam is going to stop them from total failure and/or foreign control.

Is it fair compared to the small to medium sized business where the workers and the owners spend 16 hour days? Not at all, but the impact from a small to medium size business loss is (sorry to say) peanuts compared to a fortune 25 company going down the drain, regardless of who's fault it is.

Thing is, if the gov does this right, they can make money on it just like they did way back when with Chrysler. If it means the gov owns stakes in these companies, so be it. Not that I'm a socialist, but perhaps with all the greed going around it's time to roll in some socialist methods. Clearly the honor system hadn't done well by us so far......

purman · 10-27-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

Ok, let's gaze into a crystal ball and see what a possible future could be.....

Ford fails, followed by GM. Chrysler is a non-issue since they are practically done.

So, Ford fails, bits an pieces get sold/liquidated, tens of thousands of jobs if not more are lost. GM fails, tens of thousand more jobs lost, and the old saying goes if the economy gets a cold the auto industry has pneumonia. But hey, let's say a Chinese company buys up the cheap stock of GM or specifically Ford to save the from ruin, now you have a foreign owned bellweather. The gov would have little way of saying no if it saved hundreds of thousands of jobs........

In this economy with a cold, the automakers have double pneumonia.

If we don't bail out Ford and GM and consolidate now, we stand to loose a real sizable chunk of what is left of manufacturing sector, let alone the last stand of American made, or owned automakers. We're not talking a Subway chain going down, we're talking a major employer in the United States.

Should Boeing, GE or any of the other bellweathers need it, you better believe Uncle Sam is going to stop them from total failure and/or foreign control.

Is it fair compared to the small to medium sized business where the workers and the owners spend 16 hour days? Not at all, but the impact from a small to medium size business loss is (sorry to say) peanuts compared to a fortune 25 company going down the drain, regardless of who's fault it is.

Thing is, if the gov does this right, they can make money on it just like they did way back when with Chrysler. If it means the gov owns stakes in these companies, so be it. Not that I'm a socialist, but perhaps with all the greed going around it's time to roll in some socialist methods. Clearly the honor system hadn't done well by us so far......

Ok, I agree with you that there will be lots of jobs lost... But maybe it would be better in a Japanese company bought them... They seem to be doing fine... And why does GM want to buy Chrysler back for

... It's losing money left and right.. So is GM, and Ford they wouldn't need the loans if they weren't..

They want 15 Billion Doallars not Million but Billion...

Let a foreign company buy them up, There losing money anyway.. It's not like the money is staying here if there not making any...

Plus GM and the other 3 just caught up with the better built cars and trucks others make..... I had a mid 80's chevy that didn't even compare to the quality of my '79 honda accord...

If they can't build stuff people want to buy let someone else buy them and straighten it all out.... The Government only needs to steep in to keep more of the profits here...

redeagle313 · 10-27-2008, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

Ok, let's gaze into a crystal ball and see what a possible future could be.....

Ford fails, followed by GM. Chrysler is a non-issue since they are practically done.

So, Ford fails, bits an pieces get sold/liquidated, tens of thousands of jobs if not more are lost. GM fails, tens of thousand more jobs lost, and the old saying goes if the economy gets a cold the auto industry has pneumonia. But hey, let's say a Chinese company buys up the cheap stock of GM or specifically Ford to save the from ruin, now you have a foreign owned bellweather. The gov would have little way of saying no if it saved hundreds of thousands of jobs........

In this economy with a cold, the automakers have double pneumonia.

If we don't bail out Ford and GM and consolidate now, we stand to loose a real sizable chunk of what is left of manufacturing sector, let alone the last stand of American made, or owned automakers. We're not talking a Subway chain going down, we're talking a major employer in the United States.

Should Boeing, GE or any of the other bellweathers need it, you better believe Uncle Sam is going to stop them from total failure and/or foreign control.

Is it fair compared to the small to medium sized business where the workers and the owners spend 16 hour days? Not at all, but the impact from a small to medium size business loss is (sorry to say) peanuts compared to a fortune 25 company going down the drain, regardless of who's fault it is.

Thing is, if the gov does this right, they can make money on it just like they did way back when with Chrysler. If it means the gov owns stakes in these companies, so be it. Not that I'm a socialist, but perhaps with all the greed going around it's time to roll in some socialist methods. Clearly the honor system hadn't done well by us so far......

Well said!

flashbackk · 10-27-2008, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purman

My wife and I are buying the medical building she is in... We are going to the bank for a loan...

Guess who is bailing out, insuring and providing the capital for that loan you get from you friendly local bank?

purman · 10-27-2008, 03:45 PM

Local bank, but maybe... But either way it's not a 0% down loan and we can afford it....

purman · 10-27-2008, 03:47 PM

And the banks aren't giving them away, believe me... I can't believe to stuff they want to see.....

redeagle313 · 10-27-2008, 03:48 PM

Ok, I agree with you that there will be lots of jobs lost... But maybe it would be better in a Japanese company (who have benefitted for years from low cost credit sponsored by their central banks. The Chinese have benefited and still do from a controlled currency) bought them... They seem to be doing fine... And why does GM want to buy Chrysler back for

... It's losing money left and right.. So is GM, and Ford they wouldn't need the loans if they weren't..it is about economies of scale and eliminating reduncies, both GM and Chrysler are each spending billions to develop advanced propulsion systems (hybrids, fuel cells, etc) and if they merge they only need one group of people doing it, and the same would go for numerous central office staff positions.

They want 15 Billion Doallars not Million but Billion...

Let a foreign company buy them up, There losing money anyway.. It's not like the money is staying here if there not making any... all the money is staying here that is paid to employees, retirees, suppliers, and dealerships. And to the medical community for the million plus people that the big 3 provide Healthcare.

Plus GM and the other 3 just caught up with the better built cars and trucks others make..... I had a mid 80's chevy that didn't even compare to the quality of my '79 honda accord...okay, you had a bad GM vhicle 20+ years ago. GM ranks at the top of most of the current JD Power long term ownership studies. The big three have as many quality award winners as any manufacturer. Which automaker had the most recalled vehicles in 2007? Toyota!

If they can't build stuff people want to buy let someone else buy them and straighten it all out....(GM, Ford, and Chysler all produce vehicles that people are buying, but with the slow down, not enough to cover expenses The big three and other companies built the American middle class. One by one they are dying off as legacy costs (retiree pensions/healthcare and employee healthcare) make them uncompetive against new competition that has no legacy costs. How does it happen? Our free market economy, the ONLY free market economy in the world allows foreign owned companies to build here or import products at less cost and underprice American sourced products. This ends up driving American owned companies out of business. The Government only needs to steep in to keep more of the profits here.. Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, all of them export ALL of their untaxed profit to their country of origin, and our Government should raise their taxes to keep most or all of that money in our country.

flashbackk · 10-27-2008, 03:52 PM

Frankly, I am glad to hear that you ( or anyone for that matter ) are qualifying for any commercial real estate loans... good for you. It's hard out there.

**Stefrobrts** · 10-27-2008, 04:09 PM

Instead of giving GM 15b they should give a million people 15k to go buy a new car with - then at least I'd be getting something for my tax money - we'd all be happy

toastie · 10-27-2008, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purman

Have you heard about this one.... GM is going to the government wanting a bail out because they are losing a ton of money...

Is the government gonna bail my business out if I get in trouble... NO...

What is going on??.... GM is a private business and should work like the rest of us...

Whats next... All the trialer companies going and asking for bail outs because they aren't selling trailers...
AS may be next.....

Man, I can't believe some of the crap going on these days.... They flooded the market and then want a bail out because they aren't selling cars and trucks anymore...

Go figure.. When you flood the market, the flood will recede, but they don't look to the future... just at the short term profit...

GM, Ford, Chrysler support 1 of 6 jobs in this country, if one file's they all file.

If GM, Ford, Chrysler file for bankruptcy would cause a National security problem, between the 3 companys they buy more steel in this country than all car import companys combine.

This is an area where you can say the costs of prevention are less than the costs of a cleanup," said David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research, which receives support from the industry. Cole estimated that up to 2 million U.S. workers will see their jobs threatened in the event of a bankruptcy by GM or rival Ford Motor Co (F.N) as the knock-on effect topples suppliers and other related companies.

This will even effect you............