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Old 10-27-2008, 04:31 PM   #21
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If GM, Ford, Chrysler file for bankruptcy would cause a National security problem, between the 3 companys they buy more steel in this country than all car import companys combine.

[
Yep I agree, They bought more than they needed. typical mistake.. They wanted to make more money and got greedy like the rest of this country...

Look if they screwed it up, whats makes you think it will be better the next time around????

I'm trying to think long term here not short.... what's gonna happen in 15 years when they come back wanting more money because Toyota and Honda are selling more cars and trucks than the big three...?? it could happen..... Toyota is #2 now..

Go to the rest of the world.... American cars are considered junk.. Well not junk but when you want quilty you don't buy American... This may not be true anymore but the persona is still there.....

I have two Toyota's because my last two Chevy's gave me nothing but trouble...one a 2001 and one a 1995. I also have a Jaguar that gives me lots of trouble( but is was given to me for free)and a 1990 Jeep Cherokee that gives me no trouble..

They need more than a bail out they need a makeover, and if they aren't gonna do it... I say let someone else....
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Old 10-27-2008, 05:07 PM   #22
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There is a reason for the government to bail out the auto industry, and it is national security.
Suppose we get into a war. A war many of our allies consider ill-advised at best. Suppose we need a lot of equipment to fight this war. This equipment was formerly supplied by one or more of the companies controlled by one of the bankrupt-and-dismantled auto makers.
Now suppose this equipment is now supplied by a company that is based in a foreign country that doesn't approve of our war, and that country decides to halt the export of that equipment to us. Now suppose we decide to go to war with that country as well as the original one. Then that county's allies go to war with us. A war we cannot win because we can't fight it without the equipment that one or more of the countries above refuses to supply us with.
Before you say it can't happen, think about what is going on in the world right now, what we are doing, and how many people don't agree with our country's actions at this point.
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Old 10-27-2008, 05:35 PM   #23
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Yep I agree, They bought more than they needed. typical mistake.. They wanted to make more money and got greedy like the rest of this country...

I'm trying to think long term here not short.... what's gonna happen in 15 years when they come back wanting more money because Toyota and Honda are selling more cars and trucks than the big three...?? it could happen..... Toyota is #2 now..
The new world car players 15 years from now will be India and China, not Japan...........
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Old 10-27-2008, 05:42 PM   #24
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Bail out

Why dont I hear of Honda or Toyota asking for a hand out.They both make cars in the U.S.A?
Could it be because they make better cars and trucks than the BIG 3 and that's what Americans want to buy.Thus they are making $$$.
This from a Ford and GMC owner.
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Old 10-27-2008, 05:54 PM   #25
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The new world car players 15 years from now will be India and China, not Japan...........

God I hope not....
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Old 10-27-2008, 05:55 PM   #26
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There is a reason for the government to bail out the auto industry, and it is national security.
Suppose we get into a war. A war many of our allies consider ill-advised at best. Suppose we need a lot of equipment to fight this war. This equipment was formerly supplied by one or more of the companies controlled by one of the bankrupt-and-dismantled auto makers.
Now suppose this equipment is now supplied by a company that is based in a foreign country that doesn't approve of our war, and that country decides to halt the export of that equipment to us. Now suppose we decide to go to war with that country as well as the original one. Then that county's allies go to war with us. A war we cannot win because we can't fight it without the equipment that one or more of the countries above refuses to supply us with.
Before you say it can't happen, think about what is going on in the world right now, what we are doing, and how many people don't agree with our country's actions at this point.
Ok I can live with this explanation...

But it doesn't mean I have to like it...
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Old 10-27-2008, 06:08 PM   #27
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Ok, let's gaze into a crystal ball and see what a possible future could be.....

Ford fails, followed by GM. Chrysler is a non-issue since they are practically done.

So, Ford fails, bits an pieces get sold/liquidated, tens of thousands of jobs if not more are lost. GM fails, tens of thousand more jobs lost, and the old saying goes if the economy gets a cold the auto industry has pneumonia. But hey, let's say a Chinese company buys up the cheap stock of GM or specifically Ford to save the from ruin, now you have a foreign owned bellweather. The gov would have little way of saying no if it saved hundreds of thousands of jobs........

In this economy with a cold, the automakers have double pneumonia.

If we don't bail out Ford and GM and consolidate now, we stand to loose a real sizable chunk of what is left of manufacturing sector, let alone the last stand of American made, or owned automakers. We're not talking a Subway chain going down, we're talking a major employer in the United States.

Should Boeing, GE or any of the other bellweathers need it, you better believe Uncle Sam is going to stop them from total failure and/or foreign control.

Is it fair compared to the small to medium sized business where the workers and the owners spend 16 hour days? Not at all, but the impact from a small to medium size business loss is (sorry to say) peanuts compared to a fortune 25 company going down the drain, regardless of who's fault it is.

Thing is, if the gov does this right, they can make money on it just like they did way back when with Chrysler. If it means the gov owns stakes in these companies, so be it. Not that I'm a socialist, but perhaps with all the greed going around it's time to roll in some socialist methods. Clearly the honor system hadn't done well by us so far......
Very good, if GM, Ford, Chrysler file chapter 11 the goverment would have to pick up billions in pension. Remenber, only American's will hurt, GM is doing great outside of America, they have greater market share in China and India than Toyato and Honda combined.
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Old 10-27-2008, 06:21 PM   #28
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Bail out

Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander63 View Post
There is a reason for the government to bail out the auto industry, and it is national security.
Suppose we get into a war. A war many of our allies consider ill-advised at best. Suppose we need a lot of equipment to fight this war. This equipment was formerly supplied by one or more of the companies controlled by one of the bankrupt-and-dismantled auto makers.
Now suppose this equipment is now supplied by a company that is based in a foreign country that doesn't approve of our war, and that country decides to halt the export of that equipment to us. Now suppose we decide to go to war with that country as well as the original one. Then that county's allies go to war with us. A war we cannot win because we can't fight it without the equipment that one or more of the countries above refuses to supply us with.
Before you say it can't happen, think about what is going on in the world right now, what we are doing, and how many people don't agree with our country's actions at this point.

Maybe the Government in case of a big war could use or take over the Honda and Toyota plants here in the U.S. and get a better product for less $$$.Kind of like U.S auto buyers do now.
Right now I do not think we could get a BIG army in this day and age to fight the big one.But maybe we could ship that job overseas to Israel.
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:52 PM   #29
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???

Today a Detroit Ford dealer is giving 10 shares of Ford stock to customers willing to test drive a vehical.
Your chance to get rich, the stock closed today at $2.15.= 21.50 per test drive, you do 10 test drive a day thats 100 shares a day.You do that every day and the stock goes up your RICH.
Now that your rich you can bail out GM and save us taxpayers lots of $$$.
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:12 PM   #30
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Very good, if GM, Ford, Chrysler file chapter 11 the goverment would have to pick up billions in pension. Remenber, only American's will hurt, GM is doing great outside of America, they have greater market share in China and India than Toyato and Honda combined.
Didn't the big 3 saddle that off to the unions to manage. I thought the put a ton of money into the pensions, then left it to the unions to manage and grow.

I agree fully that it is a national security issue, as it would be for nearly any bellwether stock that manufactures essential machines. Back in WW2, there were no new cars for a number of years cause the car companies built tanks and such. In the global world we find ourselves in, it's a bit more complicated, but the undercurrents are the same.

To bad we don't have the same philosophy when it comes to domestic and renewable energy vs. foreign energy supplies which only make others wealthy and dangerous to us.
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Old 10-29-2008, 12:50 AM   #31
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Watch "Who Killed the Electric Car?," and then decide whether GM is deserving of a taxpayer bailout.
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Old 10-29-2008, 10:07 AM   #32
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Watch "Who Killed the Electric Car?," and then decide whether GM is deserving of a taxpayer bailout.
I saw this movie, and before passing any judgment, it is also important to point out that every car company that had an electric offering in that California testing group pulled their cars and some other companies also crushed their cars too.

Moreover, if GM didn't have the foresight to keep the EV1, why did no one else pick up where GM left off? Clearly the killing of the electric car was not by GMs hand alone. The State of California had a major hand in this.... does that mean that we simply allow 1 in 6 manufacturing jobs disappear because GM made a business decision? We all have had our opportunities to do the right thing, but just like GM, a lot of us kept buying big trucks for tooling around town....and why not? The fuel prices were cheap, folks could use their homes as ATMs for Escalades and GM was more than willing to supply them with what the consumers wanted. It's funny how when things get tough, GM, Ford and other automakers are villans for giving folks what they wanted. Before all this huge run up on oil, few if any cared at all about their gas guzzling SUVs. Now, the big 3 (maybe soon to be the big 2) are scrambling to make up for their shortsightedness and frankly, I'd rather see the domestic automakers get it than the bankers who went out and had a monster party on our dime.
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Old 10-29-2008, 10:17 AM   #33
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and frankly, I'd rather see the domestic automakers get it than the bankers who went out and had a monster party on our dime.
I'll second that! At least that way there should be more Americans employed, and most of the money should stay in America. The Banks employ very few.
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Old 10-29-2008, 10:40 AM   #34
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If you ask me, the best line in the movie "Who Killed the Electric Car?" was something like " Our problem isn't that we are running out of oil. Our problem is that there is too much oil out there."
You just have to hope god didn't put our oil under your desert ...
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Old 10-29-2008, 10:54 AM   #35
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I have a question here. How did the Big 3 spend the $25 billion that I gave them last month?

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Old 10-29-2008, 10:56 AM   #36
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"Oct 29th, 2008 | DETROIT -- If General Motors Corp. acquires Chrysler LLC, it will cost 25,000 to 35,000 jobs at the automakers, according to a Michigan consulting firm."
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Old 10-29-2008, 11:00 AM   #37
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I have a question here. How did the Big 3 spend the $25 billion that I gave them last month?

Jim
I believe this is a low interest loan to help the auto industry to build more efficient vehicles. I don't think they have the money, yet. It may be a while before they get this $25B.
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Old 10-29-2008, 11:01 AM   #38
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Watch "Who Killed the Electric Car?," and then decide whether GM is deserving of a taxpayer bailout.

I watched this movie and it was good... The only problem is, it's like the Michael Moore movies... One sided and very much that way.. To the point they overlook issues from the other side...... and so the movies discredit themselves in a way....


GM should stop worrying about buying other car companies up and work on their own stuff....
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Old 10-29-2008, 11:02 AM   #39
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Guess who is bailing out, insuring and providing the capital for that loan you get from you friendly local bank?


There is already a fear that the bailout money is being hoarded. There is already fear that the bailout money is being pocketed by CEO's and spent on lavish life styles instead of reinvesting the money by providing loads. Of course it gonna happen. We no longer have enough people to oversee such things. The tax payers bailed out Chrysler in the 80's and the end result was? But,, We have no choice but to do it again. And yes it has a lot to do with national security. Chrysler already has an obligation to China to sell their cars in Chrysler show rooms because the borrowed money from China.

A long time senitor said some years ago the US is becomming a service oriented country farming out its job to cheap labor in foreign countries to compete in the global market. We cannot compete with other service oriented counties without becoming just like THEM. 90 percent of the ammo. our military uses is made in other countires...ie south american countries.

Out steel industry,,auto industry is or soon could be controlled by OTHER countries that could care less about us. We are rapidly becomming a smaller fish in the pond of global consumption.

A real gobal ecomony means We become just like everyone else. SCARY

And of course why did all this happen...WE ALL HAVE AN OPINION BUT,..I think it had to do with company's doing whatever it took to give investors a return on thier stock. I think it had something to do with the BOTTOM LINE mentallity of quick profit over long tern sustained growth.

The bailout money is BORROWED MONEY from other counties who seek to control more of the US economy.

AND AIRSTREAM JUST ANNOUNCED THE ARE CLOSING DOWN FOR 6 WEEKS???????? Now I am sad.
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Old 10-29-2008, 11:19 AM   #40
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I'm gonna be paying off my house as soon as I can, buy up a bunch of ammo for the guns and wait it all out...
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