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Old 07-21-2006, 12:08 PM   #1
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2005 28' International CCD
Ottawa , Ontario
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International Price - Good deal??

Hi all,

I've got a bead on a "deadstock" (never used but earlier model) 2005 International CCD 25'. I think it's a good deal but I definitely don't have any spectacular salesperson/negotiating skills.

It's got all the bells and whistles:

audio/video upgrade (incl. tv)
solar charging system
fantastic fan w/ rain sensor
bi-fold range cover
galley skylight w/ cover
spare tire w/ bracket
window awning package

Price is $44K (U.S. dollars), which of course includes the factory warranty.

Does anyone think it's not acceptable - too high?

I've priced it under various value estimators, but I'm wondering if those prices are assuming they're slightly used, rather than new.

Thanks for reading!
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Old 07-21-2006, 12:53 PM   #2
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It may be a good price... What was the MSRP? and why do they still have this very popular floor plan still on their lot? I got a very good deal on our 2005 30' safari purchased in April. But it is not as popular of a model so the dealer was very motivated. Is $44K the price they offered or advertised? Or is it the negotiated price? If it is their advertised price, depending on the motivation of the dealer, you likely have more room for negotiation. Do you have a hitch system already? Do you have a brake controller? These are high margin ad on that you will need and they could be negotiated into the deal.
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."- Mark Twain

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Old 07-21-2006, 01:44 PM   #3
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To echo what AZstreamin said, what is the MSRP of the unit?

I would guess you should get in the range of 25% off the MSRP on a 2 year old trailer (the '07's are out).
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Old 07-21-2006, 01:58 PM   #4
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Could be good

In general, it is a smart financial play to buy a new "left over" model. You get a larger discount due to the accelerated depreciation of a late model, get the full two year factory warranty. In five years, the value of a 2005 versus a 2007 will not be as big a difference as the discount is now. If you factor in the cost of money, it is even a better deal.

As said earlier, it is a good deal if the discount off of MSRP is representative of being a left over. I would agree that 25% is a good target. Have them throw in the hitch and brake control, and dont let them add prep costs.

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Old 07-21-2006, 02:01 PM   #5
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Apparently the MSRP for this unit plus all the options was $59K and change. At least that's what the dealer was listing as MSRP.

If it really was $59, then 25% off would be $44, which is the price today. Kinda makes some sense.

Apologies - have no idea how to get a 100% exact MSRP for something that's a few years old, as well as the suggested pricing on the options (I have actually no clue as to get pricing on current options, except going to a dealer and chatting with a salesperson...).

I did bring this price forward to my local dealer (I'm from Canada; the model I'm looking at buying is down in the States) and he said he couldn't touch that price. The closest he could get would be about $15K above (in Cdn $$) albeit with a 2006 model, but without many of the bells and whistles.

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Old 07-21-2006, 02:38 PM   #6
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I'm curious about your import rules. I'd rather sneak drugs into Singapore than a bobby pin into Canada--you guys are tough!

Since this trailer is already two years old, would it be subtantially cheaper to import it if it were used? If someone bought it and vacationed in it for a month, then sold it to you, would that qualify? I don't know how Airstream would treat the warranty in that case, but it might be worth looking into.

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Old 07-21-2006, 02:38 PM   #7
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Hi Michelle,

We didn't have any negotiating skills either, in fact I'm frequently ridiculed for my inability to bargain.

But when we walked into the empty RV dealership on a cold November day and started looking seriously at a new 2004 CCD about to be two model years out of date, the salesman disappeared for a few minutes.

When he returned, he said that if we'd ink a deal today, they'd knock another 2000 off the price, which brought our total discount to 31% below MSRP. Since we were already considering the advertised deal, which was exactly 24% below MSRP, we did not hesitate to accept this offer, and have not had an instant's regret.

I think we lucked into the exact right time for the dealer to be highly motivated; perhaps a "dead" spot in business could work for you also? In the car biz, end of month/year is supposed to be good, don't know if that's true in the travel trailer game. I'd bet however that the later in the season it gets, the more nervous the dealer will be with that 2005 sitting on his/her lot.

Good luck!
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Old 07-21-2006, 03:28 PM   #8
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Well - all things point to either an OK deal, if not a good deal. Certainly nothing I've seen so far indicates a "Holy smokes, you didn't pay THAT much for it, didja?" kind of deal.

As for importing from U.S. to Canada, it's a smooth sailing type of affair. Or so I've read/heard. Since Airstreams are manufactured in the U.S. there's no duty involved. All we do is pay the federal tax at the border which is 6% of the purchase price. Plus an extra $100 or so thrown in for good measure (some air conditioning tax or other). Then we truck it down over to our provincial licensing bureau and pay them an additional 8% for a grand total of 14% tax, not including the various licensing fees. The fees are the same regardless on whether or not it's used or brand new - all based on purchase price. They're gonna get you in the wallet no matter what.

But that's about it. Since a travel trailer has no engine it's really not subject to various rules that cars/buses etc... are. Apparently it's pretty easy.

But - I'll let my husband dicker with the salesguy this afternoon, and then hopefully soon I'll let be able to everyone know whether importing truly is a hassle-free affair!

Hope everyone has a great weekend (not too hot!),

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Old 07-21-2006, 04:03 PM   #9
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hi macfrodge, toasty's dad and others who enjoy buying vicariously....

i've got some questions, thoughts and suggestions
loosely organized into the dealer, the trailer, the options, the deal
perhaps they will be useful
or not...

the dealer....shortest question is...
-who is it?
realizing the obvious reason not 2 answer this question, lets put it in other terms...
-how far away is the dealer?
-have you been to the physical location?
-how long in business? do they have a real service area and techs?
-what sort of rep does this dealer have?
-know anyone else who's purchased from them?
-you will need service and some of us have met resistance getting a closer dealer to do warranty work if they didn't initially sell the trailer...
-so will your closest/local dealer care for your trailer when needed?
-if this happens, how easy and willing are you to go back to selling dealer or visit jackson center?

the trailer.....
-have you seen it?

-what condition?

new but 2 years out isn't an issue
unless it's been used for lots of rv shows, been a high traffic showroom demo and so on.
a good thing about 2 years out is they have had plenty of time to carefully inspect and correct most issues that bless new trailers....

-assuming you have seen it....
what is the condition? skin? flooring? appliances? trim? fixtures? and so on....
have you identified anything yet that needs to be fixed?
trust me there are things to fix right now...

-how badly do ya want a ccd in this color?
the ccds were hot like fire for several model years
but the safari se/ss/fb/ltd/bvd is now the HOT model and
actually eating prospective ccd sales, which are now cooling...
so is this the model ya really really want? size ya want?...and so on...

-the dealer owns this unit. they purchased it from a/s.
they are stuck with it's now like left over car inventory,
so returning 2 a/s isn't easy...but they could sell it to another dealer....
perhaps your local dealer?...not likely but a thought...

the options.....

thanks for listing the factory options, that helps us chime in on pricing....

-the a/v upgrade was overpriced when new and now 2 years out, it is also outdated...
better tvs, cheaper tvs and so on...
even if the a/v package suits you
i'd suggest deducting this option package from the msrp sticker completely....for your pricing...or figure 4-500$ at most, but no more.

-the other options (except for solar) are all really essentials...imo,
so keep their prices in the scheme...
but remember the more options included the more dealer margin
so the greater potential discount in absolute $$ and as a percentage of msrp...
-solar package...
i like mine and use it, but these are over priced too for what ya get....
how many panels and what size? living in canada will you use this much?
-how likely are you to buy a generator anyway?
not suggesting removal of the solar, rather just framing it's real value to you...

-are there other options/essentials to add?.....
-ya need a hitch, so which one and how much and will the dealer install it for free or include it in the purchase price?

-for example i'd want disc brakes....
can the shop do this and at what price?...
think about these sorts of options/upgrades...

-depending on build date, the tires are at least 2 years old already; perhaps older...
and they have been just sitting; probably under inflated!
-consider this...many here suggest new tires at 4-5 years regardless of usage...
so this is something you will pay for soon....perhaps.

-along this same line, the appliances have been inactive for 2 that good? does this affect useful life? or warranty?

the deal.......
-figuring the original msrp isn't foolproof, use the dealer inventory sticker/sheet...
-but there have been 1-2 price increases since this unit was built...
-and the a/v package has improved...
-and there have been other model improvements/upgrades...
-are you gonna pick up the trailer or will they deliver it, and at what cost?
-have you worked out all the issue related to a usa2canada rv purchase?
-what is the kelly bb or other reference for a used similar unit?
-i realize you are buying new with warranty and so on....but had this unit been purchased and use once....what would the price reference be...?

while you may think you don't have the skills to bargain....
it is YOUR MONEY and you can walk away, honest!
using some of the issues above may help.
doesn't mean it's not a fantastic unit...
the a/s of your dreams...
just don't tell them...
wait till ya own it...
then shout4joy!

make an offer, just like on a house.
no emotions. mention the issues above, unless you easily lose most discussions...

yes the dealer has money in the unit and normally they need to make some reasonable profit...but with this trailer they need to get it off the lot, even at a loss!

my offer would be 37,995$
and willing to go up to 39,995$
but only with the hitch, delivery and so on....included.
and absolutely everything working!
more than 30% under msrp is reasonable!

if ya want 2 answer some of the ??s above...
it might help others offer more free advice!
good luck and keep us informed on your buying adventure!

all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
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Old 07-21-2006, 04:46 PM   #10
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2airishuman - do you moonlight as a negotiator?! Can I hire you?!!

Lots of info there. Will certainly ruminate over the weekend.

Have never been to the dealership, but they seem like a decent shop, but then again, what do I know?

I figured that I was buying something that albeit has been sitting around, hasn't been used in the conventional sense, so that it was a safer bet than buying something from Joe Shmoe and not finding some major hidden issue. At least I've got the warranty, which really will make me feel better. Plus husband is super handy (engineer and owns a commercial flooring business) so any minor issues can be dealt with.

The upgrades I mentioned are all great with me - except for the range cover. That one mystifies me (aside from aesthetics - why would one need that?), but probably doesn't cost much $$ so can lose it somewhere along the way... Solar panel won't really be used much but it's one of those things that if you do need it you'll really appreciate it.

I guess bottom line is that the only dealer in town here (and really, the only dealer for miles and miles around) can't come close to this price. Not even when factoring in the time taken to drive to the dealer and back.

I do appreciate the info and suggestions. Will be posting another question on sway bars in the proper section and see where we go.

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Old 07-21-2006, 04:58 PM   #11
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2air makes some great points.. Remember you are in the best position to negotiate when the need is greater on the sellers side. They need to sell this Airstream if dealer did not pay cash, and a lot of them don't, they are likely carrying a note on it. I would strongly recommend that you do all of your negotiating over the phone and agree upon a final price before stepping one foot on their lot. Make the agreed upon price contingent upon you seeing and touching the unit. Doing it over the phone will help avoid the typically tag team close at the dealership. Ask for the price and add-ons you want and shhhh don't say anything until they say yes or no… Likely the salesmen will say, let me go ask my boss or the owner and will call you back. Again this puts you in the best position, if you don't agree to a price first they will know they got you, because you came all the way from Canada. You'll get a better deal this way and if don't get your price you want, you're not out the time and trouble of driving to where ever it is.
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."- Mark Twain

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