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smeghead · 03-11-2011, 01:06 PM

We (DW and I) are new to Airstreams, but have been looking for several months now. We were looking at Sport 22's and really liked them, but now we have focused the 23D International, 2007+. There are two we are looking at seriously.

So, the question. Does NADA have any bearing on reality when it comes to real-world airstream values and sales prices? Is it more accurate for newer ones or older ones or is it mostly just a straight depreciating formula from MSRP?

I know from buying and selling motorcycles, especially older ones, that NADA is comically wrong in many instances. Newer bikes seem to be closer to accurate values, but beyond five or ten years they are inaccurate.

I ask for a couple reasons. They don't even list the 2007 23D international as an available model. Using the 2008 values, a 2007 CCD model might be 'worth' $34,600. We are also looking at a 2009 model and it is listed at $41,600. Doesn't make much sense for 1 year to make $6k difference.

To what degree is NADA reliable for A/S values?

Also, what is a good price on an 09 International 23D CCD from a private party? And what is a good price on an 07 International 23D CCD from a private party?

I think these two trailers I am looking at are pretty good deals, but I need to prove it to myself and to my DW.

TIA,

smeg

au_ee · 03-11-2011, 01:12 PM

Generally I would say it only provides a very rough approximation. Keep in mind that whereas the NADA for autos is done per state, the RV edition is a national one. Prices can vary widely depending upon location. When I was looking for my AS, I allowed a year (actually was looking prior to that but not yet committed to purchasing) to look. There are a lot of places on line that you can find used RVs. A good place to get an idea for market prices is the RV section of eBay. When I was looking, I would put any AS that remotely met my requirements on my watch list. Even though I wasn't bidding on them, it gave me a lot of information about what these units were actually bringing. After a while, I had a pretty good idea of what prices different years and models were bringing.

Jammer · 03-11-2011, 01:42 PM

In general NADA's RV prices don't seem to be thought to be as accurate as their car prices. There are a couple of threads in broader-scope RV forums about this that a google search would bring up. There seems to be doubt as to whether the RV prices are based on actual sales to the same extent as with cars.

With newer Airstreams in like-new condition, Airstream dealers seem to be pricing them at only a slight discount to the typical negotiated sales prices for new trailers.

But the prices do vary widely depending on the nature of the seller and the location, season, and circumstances of the sale, as well as relatively minor aspects of the trailer's condition.

damonbeals · 03-11-2011, 01:53 PM

NADA prices are only meaningful to Insurance Companies. If you total your Airstream your going to get NADA price for the settlement. The prices do not follow the prices that you will pay, and I don't think any of the dealers use them either. We had the same issues when we bought our 2002 and when we sold it... "but the book says it only worth $XXXX, and you want more" And you might also get some issues with your bank as they will look at book value too.

Damon

Coloradobus · 03-11-2011, 04:23 PM

We have found that NADA is about 10,000 dollars soft on Airstream prices. I just add 10 grand to what NADA says for what the market is asking.

dscluchfc · 03-11-2011, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damonbeals

NADA prices are only meaningful to Insurance Companies. If you total your Airstream your going to get NADA price for the settlement. The prices do not follow the prices that you will pay, and I don't think any of the dealers use them either. We had the same issues when we bought our 2002 and when we sold it... "but the book says it only worth $XXXX, and you want more" And you might also get some issues with your bank as they will look at book value too.

Damon

THIS^^^^
Dealers, banks, and insurance companies use them to beat down the amount they will trade, loan, or settle a claim for, and the prices sometimes bear little or no resemblance to reality.

**blmitch5** · 03-11-2011, 09:56 PM

I bought mine for $500 over book and couldn't write the check fast enough.

Hansom-Man · 03-12-2011, 12:24 AM

We paid the mid range of NADA for our 09 23FB last year and felt good about it. A colleague of mine paid the exact same for the same model that was 6 mo newer from a consignment outfit. The prices you are qouting are in line with the NADA prices which are usually low. Note however, you will usually find the most price flexibility with someone who holds the title or has enough cash in the bank to "make it go away" when they realize it is not their cup o tea.

If your looking at the 2009 at $41700 and you really like it, make an offer. All they can say is no. Just make sure your getting what you want. Otherwise you will lose all of the large chunk of change in TTL fees Mother Texas charges you to register your beauty.

Good luck

idmtman · 03-12-2011, 07:42 AM

We found that the NADA prices were about $8,000 - $10,000 low of market prices in the PNW or Intermountain West. It is interesting how states use this pricing. In Idaho we paid sales tax on the total amount we paid for our AS, but when it came to figuring out how much we had to pay for our RV Tags, they used the book price. Go figure.

smeghead · 03-14-2011, 07:48 PM

Thanks everyone for the input.

We finally pulled the trigger on a 09 23 Intl CCD, and I feel like we paid a good price for it.

We are going up to this weekend to pick it up!

snake · 03-14-2011, 08:03 PM

I just sold my 1999 Bambi 19' for about $10,000 over the NADA value, my buyer had been looking for about a year and was happy with the price and I was too.

It seems that the NADA uses a depreciation formula that might be okay for the multitude of RV manufacturers, but is obviously not based on actual sales for Airstreams

**blmitch5** · 03-14-2011, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smeghead

Thanks everyone for the input.

We finally pulled the trigger on a 09 23 Intl CCD, and I feel like we paid a good price for it.

We are going up to this weekend to pick it up!

Congrats! I love the space in a 23'!

Condoluminum · 03-14-2011, 11:12 PM

Just remember the "D" in NADA stands for Dealer, and the dealers are the ones that subscribe and submit pricing for the book.. Lenders rely on it (since Kelley Blue Book is also a Dealer-driven publication...), but it is primarily of value to provide floor pricing for later model/newer used trailers... Because it is national in scope, and volumes are small (compared to hundreds of auction and retail sales for typical used car like Camry or Mustang...), prices aren't realistic.. Remember, most dealers strongly prefer to set high (optimistic) asking prices, to allow room for negotiating concessions, discounts, repairs and generous trade-ins... It is rarely good deal to pay that asking price, unless you are positive dealer is under-pricing unit... (And that could happen for dealer with limited experience with particular models or pricing in other pats of the country...)

Secguru · 03-15-2011, 01:36 AM

The simple answer is NO. NADA bears no resemblance whatsoever to actual selling prices for RVs. And their pricing is an endless headache for any RVer who ever has an insurance claim. To that end, you may want to consider "agreed value insurance", which is available from Progressive and some other insurers. It costs more, but it certainly beats a knock-down, drag-out fight with the insurance company over what "totalled" means.

longdriver19 · 03-29-2011, 12:01 PM

So basically everyone is saying the NADA guide is useless unless you're a dealer or insurance agent. Because when you're sitting in front of one of these guys, the trailer turns into a pumpkin right? But when you're a seller asking for a small fortune, the trailer is suddenly a cream puff? There has to be a reliable source to refer to when pricing a trailer worthy of one's attention. I am currently looking for a decent trailer and am finding that many sellers are simply very "proud" of their RVs. Either they are under water on their loans or RV's are appreciating in value - imagine that! It's true that something is only worth as much as the what the next buyer will pay for it. But there has to be solid ground from which to start. Perhaps the end of camping season rather than before?

Secguru · 03-30-2011, 12:59 AM

Longdriver -

The best way to get valid information on Airstream prices is to do two things:

1) Go to AirClassifieds which has a large selection of Airstreams most of which are priced to the market (there's a few delusional folks there, but mostly they are realistic).

2) Set a Google Alert for "Airstream" and a second one for the specific Airstream you are looking for "27' Airstream". Both alerts will return one to several news articles and advertisements daily. After a couple of months you will know what is fair market value for the specific Airstream you want.

Don't know how to set a Google Alert? No problem... Go to Google and type in "Google Alert". The directions will be on your screen.

NADA is as you said useful to dealers and insurance agents who want to confiscate the asset value of your trade-in or claim. NADA is substantially below fair market value for Airstreams.

One further note, when insuring your Airstream, use your receipt and three or four ads for other similar Airstreams for evidence of actual value (if you are insuring to "fixed agreed value").

Best of luck to you on your quest. We've all been there.

__________________
"Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." Jules Henri Poincare

Bill M. · 03-30-2011, 07:31 AM

So far as I can tell, there really is no "solid ground" from which to work from on Airstream prices. NADA is wonderful unless you really want to buy a usable trailer in good condition. Small, specality market of a product whose value depends more on condition and perhaps desirability than value. My understanding is that on old Airstreams NADA does not track, check, or in any way reflect the atual selling price. It is just a depreciation table based on age.

What I do know that the price is not the most important part of buying an older Airstream.

Condoluminum · 04-01-2011, 05:58 PM

I've done a lot of teaching in negotiations and developed training materials.. Having an "anchor point" or baseline is good, and there may be enough data to get there in a 3 to 5 year old trailer, but even in that market there are a lot of variables like condition, location, season of the year (yeah, prices rise and fall around the calendar).

As SECGURU pointed out above, market value for Airstreams is variable, and often defined by beliefs of seller and buyer.. Buyers can try to create competitive market with other choices and sellers can try to create impression of scarcity and competition. Success or failure depends more on personal effort and research than on any external benchmarks or references.

Buyer or seller research should look at comparable or similar models and all of the variables, to build a loose pricing structure.. From there, you can go up or down depending on condition, cosmetics and location, and maybe even credibility of seller. As for Sellers who are too "proud" of their Airstreams, save the contact info and try again in 2 months.. If they're wrong, you might have the option to buy.. If you're wrong, you'll learn more about the market..

Either way, NADA remains a rigged booklet controlled by dealers and colleagues, to give THEM a starting point in some transactions.. Starting point and ending point need not be the same place...

Secguru · 04-02-2011, 12:32 AM

Condoluminum: Eloquently stated. Very good advice.

_______________
I had nothing to do with it. The goat was already dead when I got there.

smeghead · 04-03-2011, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Condoluminum

<snip>
...
Either way, NADA remains a rigged booklet controlled by dealers and colleagues, to give THEM a starting point in some transactions.. Starting point and ending point need not be the same place...

That is good to know - it would be interesting to know exactly how it is rigged. I presume, based on my experience looking for a new-ish pre-owned airsrtream, that there is very little data to be had by NADA on gently used airstreams. It seems most folks are not selling within five years of the initial purchase(rightly so). And as already stated - older trailers are far more subjective due to condition.

So the question is, what (if anything) are they basing their numbers on?

In any case, I did buy relative to the NADA book on a 2 year old international 23D - but I would not have sold for that price. My seller took a hit that I would have been very reluctant to take, based on what NADA published.

So I guess, thanks NADA. And in the same breath - screw you NADA.

-smeg