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05-10-2020, 05:06 AM
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#1
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Rivet Master
2020 25' Flying Cloud
Atlanta
, Georgia
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 533
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Reading the tea leaves
Assume with me--whether your believe it or not--that we're heading into a recession with runaway inflation. If that's the case, does it make economic sense for some unknown and unnamed hypothetical person to trade in a 2 year old tow vehicle with some equity to trade it in for a new upgraded tow vehicle, knowing that the dollar in 2021, 2022, 2023 etc will be worth a lot less than dollars are now? Particularly given the fact that savings pays 0% and the stock and bond markets are diving?
I'm NOT asking (for this hypothetical person) anything about whether debt is good, or whether the markets will rebound, or whether this would happen or that might happen, or any of that other stuff. I'm asking only what I asked, trying to figure out if you assume recession > inflation > dollars worth less > loans paid in inflated dollars are a smart thing now.
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05-10-2020, 05:18 AM
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#2
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor
, New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 17,523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belbein
. . .
. . . trying to figure out if you assume recession > inflation > dollars worth less > loans paid in inflated dollars are a smart thing now.
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Yes, but only if one makes additional assumptions . . .
Peter
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05-10-2020, 05:20 AM
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#3
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Rivet Master
2016 25' Flying Cloud
Jupiter
, Florida
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,140
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That's easy. It depends.
Does it ever make economic sense to spend money on things when you don't have to?
__________________
"A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving." - Lao Tzu
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05-10-2020, 05:42 AM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1988 25' Excella
1987 32' Excella
Knoxville
, Tennessee
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,118
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Short term economics do not make any real difference at all. You are not going to get a free truck from inflation.
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05-10-2020, 06:17 AM
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#5
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4 Rivet Member
2018 27' Globetrotter
Elbert
, CO
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 329
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I've seen recommendations to buy gold and ammunition, but never a new TV!
I went through this exercise myself when deciding - assuming runaway inflation - whether to accelerate payments or string them out as long as possible. I finally decided I'd rather ride into the storm debt-free. When all hell is breaking loose, the simpler you can make things, the better. Nobody knows who had the newest car in the Wiemar Republic because bigger things were at play than paying off loans on the cheap.
[unnamed hypothetical person] needs to ask him/herself if buying a new TV is the best thing they can do with their money right now. SeaLevel observed "it depends". I agree. When a loaf of bread costs the same as [unnamed hypothetical person]'s monthly TV payment, will the TV be that important? How much towing will [unnamed hypothetical person] be doing when fuel is at $1000/gal? The decision would be a lot easier if one could also assume [unnamed hypothetical person] could buy a new TV made out of gold.
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05-10-2020, 06:44 AM
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#6
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Trailer Sold, Waving
2019 26' Flying Cloud
Stettler
, Alberta
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,032
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Given the state of the state at the moment, the only reasonable investment today should be a quality shotgun.
__________________
2015 Chevrolet Silverado 2500
2019 Airstream Flying Cloud 26RBQ
WBCCI #6679
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05-10-2020, 06:45 AM
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#7
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Rivet Master
2012 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Vintage Kin Owner
Virginia Beach
, Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,801
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaLevel
That's easy. It depends.
Does it ever make economic sense to spend money on things when you don't have to?
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AMEN. And the OP simply asked the wrong question. The right question would be, "Do I dump the trailer and the tow vehicle? Or the house and.car? Which gives me the greater bang for my buck and better long term chance of surviving?
"Ancient Wisdom" has always opined that everyone should have enough money in savings to last for SIX MONTHS, and that it should be readily accessible. Of course somewhere between 5% and 10% of people ever come close to that.
(In the event of runaway inflation it would make sense to immediately convert that money to shelf stable food, storable ifuel, etc.)
In a Depression - the first thing you need to.do is look at everything in life that takes money OR a lot of your time and decide ruthlessly which are necessary and which are merely "wants". Almost no one NEEDS cable TV and 4 streaming services, but they are paralyzed at the thought of "pick one and cancel the remainder".
Here in Florida many people who have never sought public assistance have been standing in line at food banks for weeks - because they were laid off or furloughed six WEEKS ago, and have always lived paycheck to paycheck. Many cannot afford life sustaining medicines like insulin because they have been out of work for over 2 weeks.
Of course I made a human lightening rod of myself last time I went to do a grocery pickup. A young woman with an infant approached my truck begging for money for diapers for the child. Said she had bought groceries with her last dollars, but.could not.afford any diapers. Quick check - yes new sneakers and custom nails. Why do I think it is a con? So I suggested that she and her husband MAKE cloth diapers out of old t-shirts and gym socks. Woop! Epic tantrum! Con for sure!
__________________
Today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.
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05-10-2020, 06:46 AM
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#8
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Rivet Master
2018 25' International
Slidell
, Louisiana
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 3,725
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Indeed, djb75 in such a scenario, it's only wise if what you buy continues to be in high demand. Gold, aluminum and most commodities, yes. Fancy tow vehicle, hmm.....
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05-10-2020, 07:53 AM
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#9
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Rivet Master
2016 16' Sport
Miami
, Florida
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,596
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I always believe if you want something first decide if you can afford. Do this by looking at your personal finances. Not by making up hypothetical situations.
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05-10-2020, 09:50 AM
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#10
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2 Rivet Member
2016 27' International
Larkspur
, Colorado
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 23
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I think you want a new tow vehicle. So you should just get it! ;-)
__________________
Ginger and Tom
Larkspur, Colorado
2016 International Serenity "Firefly"
2015 GMC Sierra HD Diesel
We travel with Mongo the Pomeranian
and Stella Bean, Pure Golden Sweetness
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05-10-2020, 09:51 AM
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#11
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2 Rivet Member
2016 28' Pendleton
Bettendorf
, Iowa
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 30
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The assumption that there will be inflation may be a wrong starting point.
I believe deflation is much more likely. Consumers will wait for prices to come down. Consumers will think incentives and "deals will be better next month or later. They will hold off buying. They may even hold off buying because they have no money, no job, no credit. Money needs to be flowing to create hyperinflation.
My other theory is that hoarding cash, gold, ammo and guns just puts a big target on your back. Low key and under the radar is my idea.
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05-10-2020, 10:00 AM
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#12
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Ready-to-Travel
2012 30' International
Walkerton
, Virginia
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,168
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I keep thinking of ways to convince my wife that we need a new truck. This won't do it, but thanks for trying.
Pat
__________________
--------------------------------------
Somebody, please, point me to the road.
AIR 3987
TAC VA-2
WBCCI 4596
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05-10-2020, 10:12 AM
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#13
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Rivet Master
Airstream - Other
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Bosque Farms
, New Mexico
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,030
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Why do you assume runaway inflation? (I am not trying to challenge you. It's just that I haven't seen anything about a major inflation problem, but maybe I just didn't notice.)
Lynn
__________________
ACI Big Red Number 21043
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05-10-2020, 10:34 AM
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#14
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3 Rivet Member
2007 27' Safari FB SE
La Pine
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 139
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I would have to agree that inflation is highly unlikely since it is typically the result of full employment combined with a high demand for goods and services. It will be a while before we are in that situation. In addition, three months ago we were at a point of high employment with no signs of inflation.
Given the current circumstances, the potential for inflation is probably the least of our worries.
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05-10-2020, 10:56 AM
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#15
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Married with Airstream
2004 25' International CCD
Vancouver Island
, British Columbia
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 934
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Sounds like you have that terrible male disease called "New Truck Sysdrome". My limited experience as a retired psychotherapist tells me that there is no simple cure. What I suggest is that you weigh all the options, pro and con. Then ask the wife for permission.
Personally as one who drives a perfectly good and beautiful 2013 F-150HD .. I just can't understand how this disease still exists in 2020 among the male population, but it does.
__________________
La Dolce Vita Brick & Mona
We're Married With Airstream dot com
2004 International 25CCD Registered Name "Blue Streak"
2013 F-150HD FX4 SuperCrew Lariart (MaxTow) "Red Dragon"
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05-10-2020, 11:02 AM
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#16
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4 Rivet Member
2014 25' Flying Cloud
Temple
, Texas
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 287
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If your truck is not paid for do not upgrade, you may find yourself upside down on a new loan,
__________________
2014 Flying Cloud 25FB
2018 Ram 2500; Cummins
Blue Ox WDH
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05-10-2020, 11:35 AM
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#17
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Rivet Master
2017 28' International
Jim Falls
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,310
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I have an economics degree (which only makes me a bit more savvy than the average person since many economists are out to lunch when it comes to economics). I would be more concerned about deflation than inflation. Look at the price of commodities; like oil. With all these people out of work demand will be severely curtailed. Seldom do you have inflation in a recession. Typically the economy heats up severely and you have high inflation before a recession. Interest rates get too high as there is high inflation, and the result is a crash. Why do you think the FED raises interest rates if there is inflation. It is to stop it. But now I'd be more concerned about deflation due to dried up demand. And I believe that is going to be with us for quite some time; maybe about 18 months; depending upon a vaccine or new treatments. Also depending upon how safely the economy can open up.
Deflation is far far worse than inflation. Since it is better to spend in the future than now, and people tend to hold their money for a better deal in the future. That further contracts the economy. It is a far more difficult cycle to get out of than inflation. That's where you start having negative interest rates. Very very bad.
By the way. The absolute best thing is that everyone who gets a stimulus check (and doesn't need it; which I didn't) spends it and not saves it. That will keep us out of deflationary cycle. I'm hiring my next door neighbor to do landscaping. I'm hiring another guy to pave my driveway. The absolute worst thing to do is pull back and not spend money. Again that causes deflation which is utter catastrophe. Addage: if you have it spend it. It will help everyone out.
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05-10-2020, 12:05 PM
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#18
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Rivet Master
2020 25' Flying Cloud
Atlanta
, Georgia
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 533
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Thanks, everyone, for chiming in
I appreciate all of the comments. And Eubank, I never mind being challenged. If I'm making unfounded assumptions or if my deductions are faulty, I want to know.
So, to clarify: The unnamed person who is hypothetically thinking about a new tow vehicle doesn't want a new truck. The truck was variable, standing in for hard assets. What they want to know is: Does putting money in hard assets protect against inflation if we get it? If I read the answers right, "it depends;" and "a hard asset that's financed does not." So ... I'm disappointed that there's not a simple answer, but then, I haven't seen many simple answers to my conundra in the last 45 years.
I appreciate y'all correcting me on inflation vs. deflation. I hadn't thought it was an issue. Now I know. Back to research!
All in all, I've dealt with economists enough professionally to know there are no hard empirical answers to economic issues. I'm less sophisticated than I thought, though. Well, at least it's not the most humbling experience I've had this week.
Truly, thank you all for your comments. I knew this was the place to ask this question.
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05-10-2020, 12:06 PM
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#19
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belbein
> loans paid in inflated dollars are a smart thing now.
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Well...The FED's certainly think so...did you get your free money from them? 🤔
Bob
🇺🇸
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
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05-10-2020, 12:44 PM
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#20
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Rivet Master
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,806
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If you’re really worried about inflation/deflation or everything going south, may I suggest you do the following:
1. Go sell everything you own and turn everything into cash. Then give that money to someone you can “really, really, really, trust, and have them place it in a safety deposit box in their name.
2. Go purchased and finance the most expensive truck that you’ve always wanted to have as a tow vehicle, and put permanent truck tags on the truck.
3. Go purchase and finance the most expensive Airstream trailer you’ve always wanted to have as well and put permanent trailer tags on the trailer.
4. Now, make sure that you pay the first payment on both the truck, trailer and put insurance on both.
5. Now, go get lost, never to be found and never make another payment to your truck/trailer.
6. Since you did pay the first payment, both units will technically be in default, not stolen!
7. As you are traveling around the country, you will need to stay ahead of the repo-man, while having your friend send you money via Western Union.
Not saying it’s the best plan for uncertain economic times, but it’s a plan.
Stay Healthy,
__________________
Paul Waddell
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