Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-05-2012, 09:33 AM   #1
Rivet Master
 
Sphere Guy's Avatar
 
Livingston , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 586
Propane prices

Why hasn't the prices of propane decreased like natural gas?

Man, $27 each for 2 x 30 lbers.

At least my place is offering 1 free tank fillip with the purchase of 10.
__________________
Sphere Guy
AIR 50601
Sphere Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 09:55 AM   #2
Rivet Master
 
noreen&sal's Avatar
 
1981 27' Excella II
mays landing , South Jersey
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,179
Images: 9
I'm not that good at math but I think you're paying for that free tank a couple of times. Some of the professors on the forum will figure it out exactly. Sal
__________________
Sal & Nora
Let us live so that when we die even the undertaker will be sorry. Mark Twain
AIR 42483
TAC N.J. 17
WBCCI 24740
noreen&sal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 09:56 AM   #3
Figment of My Imagination
 
Protagonist's Avatar
 
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over , More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
Oddly enough, the U-Haul where I stock up on propane for my Interstate has two separate prices, one for portable tanks $4.10 per gallon (about $0.95 per pound); one for Flexible Fuel Vehicles $2.77 per gallon (about $0.65 per pound). Since my Interstate has a built-in tank, they charged me the FFV price. Lucky!

Anyway, your question prompted me to do a bit of research on the Department of Energy's web page. Here are two quotes:

Quote:
A unique feature of propane is that it is not produced for its own sake, but is a by-product of two other processes, natural gas processing and petroleum refining.

Natural gas plant production of propane primarily involves extracting materials such as propane and butane from natural gas to prevent these liquids from condensing and causing operational problems in natural gas pipelines. Similarly, when oil refineries make major products such as motor gasoline and heating oil, some propane is produced as a by-product of those processes. It is important to understand that the by-product nature of propane production means that the volume made available from natural gas processing and oil refining cannot be adjusted when prices and/or demand for propane fluctuate.
Quote:
Propane prices are subject to a number of influences, some common to all petroleum products, and others unique to propane. Because propane is portable, it can serve many different markets, from fueling barbecue grills to producing petrochemicals. The price of propane in these markets is influenced by many factors, including the prices of competing fuels in each market; the distance propane has to travel to reach a customer; and the volumes used by a customer. More specifically, propane prices are affected by: Crude Oil and Natural Gas Prices – Although propane is produced from both crude oil refining and natural gas processing, its price is influenced mainly by the cost of crude oil. This is because propane competes mostly with crude oil-based fuels.
In less bureaucratic words, it costs that much because propane producers can get away with charging that much, and users will pony up the money rather than do without.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
Protagonist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 10:11 AM   #4
Rivet Master
 
Mike Leary's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
1984 31' Airstream310
Ajo , Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,649
Images: 4
Because we stay at my uncle's KOA, we get the "employee discount", which, at last top-off was $82.00 for 23 gallons. I'm old enough to remember when propane got to $1.00, and I freaked!
Mike Leary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 10:14 AM   #5
Figment of My Imagination
 
Protagonist's Avatar
 
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over , More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Leary View Post
Because we stay at my uncle's KOA, we get the "employee discount", which, at last top-off was $82.00 for 23 gallons. I'm old enough to remember when propane got to $1.00, and I freaked!
$3.56 per gallon isn't bad, these days. How much do non-employee have to pay there?
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
Protagonist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 10:42 AM   #6
Rivet Master
 
murreywalker's Avatar
 
2013 25' FB Flying Cloud
2011 23' FB Flying Cloud
Branson , Missouri
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 734
Images: 1
In Branson, MO, we pay $24. per tank. Flat rate. If your tank is slightly empty it's $24. If it's really empty, it's $24.

No dealer in the area "Tops" the tank. Hmmmmm, methinks collusion is lurking in Branson.
__________________
2013 25 FC FB (Twin)
2013 Suburban 2500

https://www.pbase.com/murreywalker

2011 23 FC FB
murreywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 10:46 AM   #7
Figment of My Imagination
 
Protagonist's Avatar
 
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over , More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by murreywalker View Post
In Branson, MO, we pay $24. per tank. Flat rate. If your tank is slightly empty it's $24. If it's really empty, it's $24.

No dealer in the area "Tops" the tank. Hmmmmm, methinks collusion is lurking in Branson.
Really, what size tank? Or is it the same price regardless of the tank size, too?

Check with U-Haul. Not every U-Haul dealer sells propane, but those that do, usually will top off your tank rather than swapping them out.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
Protagonist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 10:59 AM   #8
Rivet Master
 
Sphere Guy's Avatar
 
Livingston , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 586
Yea, same here Murray,

My tanks were about 1/8 and 1/4 remaining, Same price fill-up for both. Next time I will ask for a per gallon pricing and see if I get it.

Protagonist,

Just like diesel, a cheaper fuel to produce but demand drives the cost.

I work in the oilfield and never get a "discount"' what's with that?

I can drag my AS to get it filled up, then can I get the cheaper FFV price?

Sphere
__________________
Sphere Guy
AIR 50601
Sphere Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 11:10 AM   #9
2 Rivet Member
 
reddogfox's Avatar
 
2008 20' Safari SE
Thumb Area , Michigan
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 95
Blog Entries: 4
Suggest you check other propane suppliers. I prefer to fill my two 30 pound tanks at Tractor Supply Company because their prices are competitive, they charge by the gallon not by a set tank size fee, and they are willing to top off partially filled tanks. Warning because of local ordinances not all locations sell propane. On October 30 I filled a tank at $2.29 per gallon at their store in Lapeer, Michigan far cheaper than any other supplier in the area .
__________________
Richard from MI

20' 2008 Safari SE, Dill TPMS Silver Dog House
2007 GMC 1/2 ton Sierra ARE Cap
AIR # 10494
reddogfox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 11:19 AM   #10
Figment of My Imagination
 
Protagonist's Avatar
 
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over , More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sphere Guy View Post
I can drag my AS to get it filled up, then can I get the cheaper FFV price?
Like I said, I was lucky. The diesel fuel filler cap is hidden behind a swing-out panel by the driver's door, the propane fill is on the passenger side behind the rear wheelwell. The guy filling the tank thought that it was a FFV becuase he's never seen an Interstate before and didn't know it's really a diesel. And for $1.33 per gallon difference in price, I wasn't going to enlighten him.

Chances are, I'll never have that luck again. Next time, probably back to full price unless I get the same attendant again and I can remind him what he charged me this time.

Still don't know why they charge less to fill an FFV than to fill a portable tank, though.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
Protagonist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 11:31 AM   #11
Rivet Master
 
1977 Argosy 24
Currently Looking...
Milltown , Wisconsin
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,087
A 30# propane tank holds 7 gallons of propane. A 20# tank holds 4.7 gallons of propane.

I just bought LP for my house at $1.09 per gallon. Do the math, we are getting screwed filling 20# tanks for $3 to $4 per gallon. I got a valve and hose and fill mine from my 500 gal home tank. Now for $1,09 per gallon or $7.56 for a 30# tank.
ventport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 11:37 AM   #12
2 Rivet Member
 
DKAir's Avatar
 
2003 30' Classic S/O
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by ventport View Post
A 30# propane tank holds 7 gallons of propane. A 20# tank holds 4.7 gallons of propane.

I just bought LP for my house at $1.09 per gallon. Do the math, we are getting screwed filling 20# tanks for $3 to $4 per gallon. I got a valve and hose and fill mine from my 500 gal home tank. Now for $1,09 per gallon or $7.56 for a 30# tank.
I have been thinking about doing this. Would you mind sharing some details on your setup?

Thanks,
DK
__________________
AIR: 48965
TAC: MN-7
DKAir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 12:45 PM   #13
Figment of My Imagination
 
Protagonist's Avatar
 
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over , More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by ventport View Post
A 30# propane tank holds 7 gallons of propane. A 20# tank holds 4.7 gallons of propane.

I just bought LP for my house at $1.09 per gallon. Do the math, we are getting screwed filling 20# tanks for $3 to $4 per gallon. I got a valve and hose and fill mine from my 500 gal home tank. Now for $1,09 per gallon or $7.56 for a 30# tank.
Not really getting screwed. You're buying propane for $1.09 per gallon for home use, and taking advantage of that to fill your trailer.

If you were buying it just for your trailer, the equation changes.

Installing a 500-gallon tank if you're only using it as a stockpile for your trailerwould make that 500 gallons of propane a whole lot more expensive. Buying a tank will set you back somewhere around $2000. So, you buy a tank for $2,000. You buy 500 gallons of propane for $500. You've just spent $2500 for 500 gallons of propane, or $5 per gallon. Not much economy there.

Of course, for your second 500 gallons, it's a lot cheaper ($3 per gallon for 1000 gallons). And your third ($2.33 per gallon for 1500 gallons), and so forth.

So, how long will it take the average Airstreamer to use up 500 gallons of propane? And remember, you can't resell it. You're only exempt from the need to be licensed for propane transfer if it's for "personal use," meaning transfer from a tank you own to a tank you own, for you to use. Start reselling your propane— or even filling someone else's tanks for free— and all of a sudden you've got fees, tests, licenses, regulatory requirements for "points of transfer" and a whole slew of things you don't want to deal with.

If we don't need to buy in bulk, we aren't really being screwed by not being able to buy in bulk.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
Protagonist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 12:48 PM   #14
Rivet Master
 
10Smiles's Avatar
 
2005 30' Classic
Kingston , Washington
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 693
The store I use has it for $2.00 a gallon (at least last I filled up a week ago). Not bad!!
10Smiles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 01:01 PM   #15
Rivet Master
 
crispyboy's Avatar
 
1994 30' Excella
alexandria , Kentucky
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,314
Images: 3
I just paid 0.75 cents per pound at our local propane dealer. They only charge by how much you actually need plus the tanks were of the age needing visual recertification for $5 each.
__________________
Steve, Christy, Anna and Phoebe (Border Collie)
1994 Classic 30'11" Excella - rear twin
2009 Dodge 2500, 6 Speed Auto, CTD, Quad Cab, Short Bed
Hensley Arrow hitch with adjustable stinger
WBCCI # 3072
crispyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 01:04 PM   #16
2 Rivet Member
 
2008 25' Classic
Sometimes it's Heaven , USA
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 63
I guess I'm SAVING lots of money at the Amish place where I fill mine -- They Charge me $22,00 to fill my 40lb tanks (Each) and $11.00 for my 20 lb Bar-B-Que tank.... Of course I have to drive about 15 miles to get there and the home cooked meal at the restaurant, that they sell, I think by the pound, is about $7.95 plus the Lemon Marangue pie... Yep I'm really saving money......lol
COUNTRYSONG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 01:04 PM   #17
Figment of My Imagination
 
Protagonist's Avatar
 
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over , More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by crispyboy View Post
I just paid 0.75 cents per pound at our local propane dealer. They only charge by how much you actually need plus the tanks were of the age needing visual recertification for $5 each.
At 4.3 pounds per gallon, that's $3.22˝ per gallon.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
Protagonist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 02:39 PM   #18
Rivet Master
 
murreywalker's Avatar
 
2013 25' FB Flying Cloud
2011 23' FB Flying Cloud
Branson , Missouri
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 734
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protagonist View Post
Really, what size tank? Or is it the same price regardless of the tank size, too?

Check with U-Haul. Not every U-Haul dealer sells propane, but those that do, usually will top off your tank rather than swapping them out.
The price is for a 30 lb tank. And that's not swapping the tanks out.
__________________
2013 25 FC FB (Twin)
2013 Suburban 2500

https://www.pbase.com/murreywalker

2011 23 FC FB
murreywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 04:10 PM   #19
Rivet Master
 
1977 Argosy 24
Currently Looking...
Milltown , Wisconsin
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protagonist View Post
Not really getting screwed. You're buying propane for $1.09 per gallon for home use, and taking advantage of that to fill your trailer.

If you were buying it just for your trailer, the equation changes.

Installing a 500-gallon tank if you're only using it as a stockpile for your trailerwould make that 500 gallons of propane a whole lot more expensive. Buying a tank will set you back somewhere around $2000. So, you buy a tank for $2,000. You buy 500 gallons of propane for $500. You've just spent $2500 for 500 gallons of propane, or $5 per gallon. Not much economy there.

Of course, for your second 500 gallons, it's a lot cheaper ($3 per gallon for 1000 gallons). And your third ($2.33 per gallon for 1500 gallons), and so forth.

So, how long will it take the average Airstreamer to use up 500 gallons of propane? And remember, you can't resell it. You're only exempt from the need to be licensed for propane transfer if it's for "personal use," meaning transfer from a tank you own to a tank you own, for you to use. Start reselling your propane— or even filling someone else's tanks for free— and all of a sudden you've got fees, tests, licenses, regulatory requirements for "points of transfer" and a whole slew of things you don't want to deal with.

If we don't need to buy in bulk, we aren't really being screwed by not being able to buy in bulk.
I paid $500 for a used 500 gallon LP tank, so your $2000 price is way off. No one needs a new LP tank as they last for over 50 years. And look like new with a coat of paint. If you do not use propane for home heating it would be ridiculous to buy a tank just to fill your camper. I still stand by my statement that we are getting screwed paying over $3 to fill a 20 or 30# tank. Defend the oil companies and fuel dealers if you want, but they have a record of screwing us.
ventport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 05:48 PM   #20
Rivet Master
 
eubank's Avatar

 
Airstream - Other
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Bosque Farms , New Mexico
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,026
I can understand the lower rate for bulk rates; the outfit up the street from us does that.

Here's their figuring: They have to pay an employee an hourly wage to pump propane. Now, a big propane truck can pump a very large amount of propane into a tank in a very short time. It takes about five minutes to fill our 500 gallon tank. By contrast, that same employee can fill one or maybe two five-gallon cylinders in about that same time. In terms of the product they sell (propane) and their business costs (propane plus employee pay), they're doing a lot better filling the large tanks than the small cylinders.

Indeed, their claim is that filling a half-full small cylinder takes about the same amount of employee time as filling a completely empty cylinder. Poof! That's their rationale for charging a flat rate for small cylinders, regardless of how much is in the cylinder prior to filling. (The state doesn't like the practice, but there's no specific law to prohibit it, as far as I know.)


Lynn

Quote:
Originally Posted by ventport View Post
I paid $500 for a used 500 gallon LP tank, so your $2000 price is way off. No one needs a new LP tank as they last for over 50 years. And look like new with a coat of paint. If you do not use propane for home heating it would be ridiculous to buy a tank just to fill your camper. I still stand by my statement that we are getting screwed paying over $3 to fill a 20 or 30# tank. Defend the oil companies and fuel dealers if you want, but they have a record of screwing us.
__________________
ACI Big Red Number 21043
eubank is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.