Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-25-2008, 11:59 PM   #1
2 Rivet Member
 
Arroyo Grande , California
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20
Investigating a business plan for a turn key AS

I would appreciate your input. I am and architect who has also built and remodeled homes by my own hand. I have cabinet making experience and various finish skills also. I have also done some marine refitting design. I say all this only to confirm that I have the skill set for efficient quality work. I have found my most satisfying work being my own projects and find the scale and challenge of an AS redo to be an exciting prospect.
I have spent some time with the economics of the project and have a clue as to the amount of work.

I guess the real question is if there is a market for turn key body off remodels. Accurate restorations are of little interest to me, these would be custom interiors with top quality finishes.

What size range would cover the largest buyer base? 25-28 seams right from my research, but there are also arguments for going bigger. The cost per foot certainly goes down as the trailer gets larger so the profit potential increases.

Would you consider the cost of a new AS of similar size to be the limit of what the market would pay or is there room beyond that for the better finish work?

I am sure I will expand on this as time goes by.

Thanks in advance for your input.
rwrussom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2008, 02:30 AM   #2
Rivet Master

 
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,721
Images: 59
I don't think you should limit your client base to 25-28 feet. The best client base is 18 to 34 feet.

If you have some other reason to stay within 25-28 feet, such as the size of your facility, that may be a reason to stick with a certain size range. Otherwise, don't limit yourself.

There are clients out there who would definitely pay more than new prices for quality work, but it will be a top to bottom shell-off restoration. There are also clients who are just looking for someone to do the "heavy work" of replacing the floor or repairing a broken frame at a reasonable cost. If you are able to do the heavy lifting you are in a good position to sell the client on your interior design and fabrication services.

It goes without saying that you will need to show pictures of your restored Airstream to convince potential clients that you have the wherewithal to undertake a project.

There are more than a couple restorers out there who have completed several projects. You will need to offer either a better price, a quicker completion, or a better design, to compete in this business.

Location is also important. You are fairly close to another restoration company on the west coast. Would you be willing to set up shop somewhere else, in a less crowded market? Like Florida or Wisconsin?

Finally, nobody wants to be on the bottom of your learning curve. Remodeling a house or a boat is one thing, being good with a rivet gun is another. Have plenty of pictures of your completed project to showcase your skill set.

Push forward with your plans. Have a portfolio. You've found a huge list of possible clients on the Airforums. This is where smart people come to look for people like you.
markdoane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2008, 07:32 AM   #3
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,070
Images: 12
There is a large following of the older Airstreams that are will to spend money on quality restoration. However I think there may be and even larger number of people that would spend well above MLP for a new trailer that really has quality built into it. Have you considered approaching Airstream and purchasing just the frame, over sized axles, the body frame and outer skin and designing custom interiors? Much the same as coach builders did with production vans 20 years ago.

Airstream, while an expensive unit, has had to down size the overall quality in resent years to remain a volume manufacturer and compete with the likes of Fleetwood. This reduction in quality is the void you could address.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2008, 07:51 AM   #4
Moderator
 
moosetags's Avatar

 
2015 25' FB Flying Cloud
2012 23' FB Flying Cloud
2005 25' Safari
Santa Rosa Beach , Florida
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,153
Images: 5
Welcome from the Florida Panhandle

First off, welcome to these Forums. We're glad to have you with us.

I think that there is always room in the marketplace for a person who does quality work at a fair price. I don't think that you should limit yourself to complete restorations. There is a market out there for quality upgrades to late model Airstreams.

Brian
__________________
SuEllyn & Brian McCabe
WBCCI #3628 -- AIR #14872 -- TAC #FL-7
2015 FC 25' FB (Lucy) with ProPride
2020 Silverado 2500 (Vivian)
2023 Rivian R1T (Opal)
moosetags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2008, 11:09 AM   #5
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,477
Here is a link to some of what is being done out there currently. David is the guy who also designed the 75th anniv Bambi for Airstream:

custom vintage airstream travel trailers

I think your research is correct that 25s and 28s are selling more than larger units lately. Proof of this is the folks here on the forums that have been out to the factory. The production lines are mostly now made up of 25 and smaller.

I think there is a market for larger, but IMHO, given the state of the economy and energy prices, larger may be a niche market right now.

I also recall a person decking out an older 30 or 31' Airstream and asking around $115k for it, I don't think it ever sold and if it did, sold at the price he was hoping.

Keep in mind that trailers, unlike houses have certain needs. Balance, weight considerations and of course axle loads. I'm sure it's not rocket science, but it is something worth mentioning.
Silvertwinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2008, 02:12 PM   #6
Be Not Afraid JMJ + AMDG
 
Roamin Cat's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari
Quiet Green , Connecticut
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 243
Rivet would they?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
Have you considered approaching Airstream and purchasing just the frame, over sized axles, the body frame and outer skin and designing custom interiors? Much the same as coach builders did with production vans 20 years ago.

Would Airstream DO this?! My plan for my eventual fulltime AS is a vintage exterior (approx. 30 - 34') with completely modern systems all the way around, the best insulation available, and lots of custom woodwork. I would seriously consider just starting with the shell described above and have someone with a fine reputation pull it all together for me! I hope to know how to do the woodwork myself by then, but we'll see.

Though I do really love the looks of the vintage Airstreams.

If we decide our current unit is the right size (25FB), we will be putting serious money into custom upgrades in a few years.

Always dreaming
__________________
Cats

AIRSTREAM Life

"Color delights my spirit"
avatar artist
Roamin Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2008, 02:56 PM   #7
Rivet Master
 
Foiled Again's Avatar
 
2012 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Vintage Kin Owner
Virginia Beach , Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,801
NO LIMITS.... well within reason that is.

First, I've been in business for 30 years. Want a short list of what I'd do differently if I were giving a time trip back the beginning with all the knowledge I've gained to date? (Even if you don't... that's tough, here goes.)
  1. Filling all roles - even if you DO build a better mousetrap, people will not automatically beat a path to your door, you need a marketing/advertising department, an accounting department, and of key importance you need a workforce with a supervisor/manager who can be trusted to work independently when necessary. When you start a business... all of those departments are usually YOU. That load alone brings down most of the 95% of new businesses that fail within 5 years of their startup. Get help from day ONE - hire an accountant, start searching for effective ways to promote your business (there are 10000 ways to advertise, 9990 of them are a waste of money), keep meticulous records of the effectiveness of every networking event, every rally, every poster you hang up.
  2. Money, money, money - and a financial plan with goals, and a drop dead date. How far will you go in debt before you are ready to call it quits - and how close to the edge of that cliff are you? That is the first or second most important question you have to keep your business on track. If you look at the direction your profits are taking every month, you'll correct your path (raise prices, improve efficiency, lay off or fire people, change advertising plans, etc.) to keep yourself on track or better yet, ahead of predicted growth. It's really NOT a luxury to have another person (accountant) oversee this part of your financials, and give you painful reality checks. Do NOT let someone else actually control the check book, its an invitation to embezzlement.
  3. Know your market and your industry. Widen your scope wherever possible. We started out as a "no doctors" answering service because we were afraid of the liability... then found out where to get good insurance, how to manage the risk, etc. and grew our business by 30% in one year. D'oh! In your place I'd do Airstreams, Avions, Silver Streaks, high end motor homes, even boats. If it brings in a profit and exposes you to a new group of potential customers, it's work worth considering. Think about finding work that brings you publicity! Doing something on a local PBS channel...GOLDEN.
  4. Hiring - make yourself an expert. You WILL have to hire 2-3 helpers and hiring mistakes can kill your business. Do background checks, check the DMV, even Pay the employee to go down to the local Social Security admin office and get their records. Hire only those who will show your their prior employment record. One sentence to remember: The best predictor of a person's future performance is his or her past performance. Someone who switches jobs every six months will be gone in six months...... just when they are reaching a point of knowing what they are doing.
  5. Socializing-running in the right circles and exposing yourself to the right customers is important. Participating in RV shows will be vital too.
  6. Hobby turned into a career - Lots of people find all of the fun of their hobby is destroyed when they try to turn it into a career. Do a fearless internal inventory on why you want to change careers and remember even a career you love... well some days it's a (expletive deleted) bad job.
Oh, two last bits of more specific advice, look for a "cheap hook" to attract customers. My demi-derriere idea - an RV Wash. I'd cheerfully pay someone $200 to detail my Airstream two or three times a year. I might pay more in fact. I've found no one within 30 miles who will do full service exterior detailing on my Airstream.... You might even consider making it a mobile service. If you go INTO an upscale park and do six to eight units, your truck should serve as a billboard for your business! Price it so you make money doing washing, and it is advertising that absolutely pays for itself!

Secondly, take small jobs whenever you can. Someone who only wants to replace their dinette table and kitchen counter today WILL tell others about you and your shop. As you grow, you can relegate this kind of work to your slow season only.


Good luck, Paula

__________________
Today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.
Foiled Again is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2008, 03:02 PM   #8
Rivet Master
 
2007 25' Classic
Hydes
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 713
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade., but the market for creating custom Airstream renovations or interiors is extremely small. As someone with a degree in Fine Art,who has spent most of my life building custom furniture,with eight years of historic renovations in Baltimore, it's not a path to wealth. You can contact Airstream about buying just a shell but they won't sell you or anyone else one as far as I know . I looked into it myself with the intention of building my own interior.To many liability issues. As for anyone with essentially no or very limited woodworking skills planing on building there own interior, unless your a savant, I can only wish you luck. I don't mean these comments to be rude but it takes years to become a really good cabinet maker no matter what Home Depot or Lowes would have you believe. Having said that there are any number of talented people on this forum who have done truly amazing interior renovations on their Airstreams. Doing it for a living is far different than working on your own projects. I don't know how much if anything you have invested in your shop but the tools and the space large enough to work on more than one Airstream at a time would be substantial. I'm not saying that it can't be done but it's a huge challange and I do wish you luck.
craftsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2008, 03:03 PM   #9
2 Rivet Member
 
Arroyo Grande , California
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
There is a large following of the older Airstreams that are will to spend money on quality restoration. However I think there may be and even larger number of people that would spend well above MLP for a new trailer that really has quality built into it. Have you considered approaching Airstream and purchasing just the frame, over sized axles, the body frame and outer skin and designing custom interiors? Much the same as coach builders did with production vans 20 years ago.

Airstream, while an expensive unit, has had to down size the overall quality in resent years to remain a volume manufacturer and compete with the likes of Fleetwood. This reduction in quality is the void you could address.
I really appreciate all the input. This a great idea, but is it even an option? Not knocking any manufactures quality, it just see a potential good fit for my life, exploring design and crafting art.
rwrussom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2008, 03:12 PM   #10
2 Rivet Member
 
Arroyo Grande , California
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by moosetags View Post
First off, welcome to these Forums. We're glad to have you with us.

I think that there is always room in the marketplace for a person who does quality work at a fair price. I don't think that you should limit yourself to complete restorations. There is a market out there for quality upgrades to late model Airstreams.

Brian
Thanks. Quality upgrades are something to consider, but after many years of high end residential clients I am reluctant to go that direction.

At this point I am looking at providing a finished product in the 25'-28' size in the low $40K range with a few of the pricer items like solar left as options.
rwrussom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2008, 03:16 PM   #11
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roamin' Cat View Post
[B]Would Airstream DO this?...
no, they don't sell shells to the general public or refinishers and rehab'ers.

there are many threads on this issue and the whys n whynots.

although given the SLOW MARKET, anything is possible...

IF ya wanna buy 50+ units they might bite...

to the o.p. there are already several dozen shops doing this work....

they either buy old units, used units or contract to remodel units owned by clients.

another shop would just be another shop.

the market is pretty small for custom jobs, because the costs are WAY more than most folks realize...

i'll eventually have a total interior redo on the 34, but want an experienced team on this...

-would u do something different/unique?
-do u understand what is involved in rv remodels, in particular 'streams?
-who will do the work? u alone or a team of folks?
-while the issues of running a custom restoration business are bascially the same as houses or boats or airplanes...

this is also true for automobile repair shops, but i would NOT have a honda tuner,work on my truck...

although i would let chip foose do my truck AND 'stream, on OVERHAULIN'....

cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2008, 04:15 PM   #12
2 Rivet Member
 
Arroyo Grande , California
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by craftsman View Post
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade., but the market for creating custom Airstream renovations or interiors is extremely small. As someone with a degree in Fine Art,who has spent most of my life building custom furniture,with eight years of historic renovations in Baltimore, it's not a path to wealth. You can contact Airstream about buying just a shell but they won't sell you or anyone else one as far as I know . I looked into it myself with the intention of building my own interior.To many liability issues. As for anyone with essentially no or very limited woodworking skills planing on building there own interior, unless your a savant, I can only wish you luck. I don't mean these comments to be rude but it takes years to become a really good cabinet maker no matter what Home Depot or Lowes would have you believe. Having said that there are any number of talented people on this forum who have done truly amazing interior renovations on their Airstreams. Doing it for a living is far different than working on your own projects. I don't know how much if anything you have invested in your shop but the tools and the space large enough to work on more than one Airstream at a time would be substantial. I'm not saying that it can't be done but it's a huge challange and I do wish you luck.

No rain, its all sunshine on the Central coast of California

Getting rich is not the interest for me here. A booming economy over the past few years has left me comfortable and satisfied. I am not looking to build a large business. I am looking to do some personal craft work on a full time basis and not end up doing it for free. I appreciate your insite into the skills needed for interior renovations. My experience in cabinet in furniture making goes back 20 years, although I have never done cabinetmaking on a production basis. I certainly could not match the output of a production shop, but I have little concern about the quality. Yes, I am well stocked in the tool area, no rivet shaver though. I really am looking to produce about 4 a year.
rwrussom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2008, 07:55 PM   #13
Rivet Master
 
Bob Thompson's Avatar
 
Corpus Christi , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 936
Images: 67
I'm a retired architect and an accomplished craftsman, but I've also owned an RV related business and my take on it is you'd have a very tough time selling your work. Some buyers are willing to throw big bucks at high end new diesel pushers, but they won't throw even reasonable dollars at a redone used trailer. The people who buy used trailers are usually on a budget and nearly always looking for a bargain. I doubt they'd appreciate the quality construction as much a they'd like a sale on polyester linens at Wal-Mart. I owned a business which made high quality RV mattresses and let me assure you it was a tough sell to RV'ers. OEM RV mattresses are among the very worst mattresses produced but selling a good mattress was nearly impossible. Airstreamers were the very worst of the lot. I remember having a beautiful pair of twin mattresses for an Airstream and I couldn't even get any Airstreamers to look at them let alone buy them. I wound up giving them to some desperate desert people who had been sleeping on the ground, when I closed the business. People would spend money on toppers and pads trying to make a miserable mattress tollerable. I recall on one installation, the owner's mattress had 8 different pads stacked together on the OEM mattress to make it tollerable, and it still was miserable. It was difficult to sell people a new quality mattress, so I would expect fancy interiors to be nearly impossible to find buyers at any price, let alone a profitable price.

If you want in the RV game, you will need to build high end, completely over the top RV's for rock stars and pro athletes. None of them are buying spruced up used Airstreams.
__________________
So Long!
Bob Thompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2008, 11:34 PM   #14
4 Rivet Member
 
KeithC's Avatar
 
1994 34' Excella
1978 31' Sovereign
Mansfield , Georgia
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 275
Hey rwrussom,

As you know, a niche market product placement that is intended to be associated with an established brand name like Airstream, demands at the minimum, the same quality production standards, plus superior product performance and design elements.

An example would be the Shelby Cobra GT series, which had enhanced interior style features and a kickass powerplant that establish much higher than the norm performance numbers.

These features combined became a niche marketing sub-set of the Ford Mustang automobile line.

What is it again that you are offering high-end RV purchasers?
KeithC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2008, 09:06 AM   #15
Restorations done right
Commercial Member
 
Frank's Trailer Works's Avatar
 
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore , Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,545
Images: 2
an honest man that does honest work at an honest rate will always be honestly employed. That is my business philosophy.

I also know that the definition of craftsman and accomplished craftsman can vary widely from person to person. I have been a professional woodworker for close to 20 years. During that time I have seen work praised that is total wood butchering and seen clients not even blink an eye at something that took more time than was budgeted. Perspective is a mighty big variable. I believe unless you have some one willing to buy your product and they are commissioning you to build something special, you will never get your investment out of it. I have well over 400 hours in my trailer and that does not include the polishing or the front half I still need to do. I just do not think I could ever recoup that kind of investment. Maybe things are different in California, but here on the East Coast somedays the sun does not shine.

I have thought long and hard about making a venture into custom interiors myself. I even own the domain name for a company, but have not yet been willing to stick my neck out there. Hope it works for you.
Frank's Trailer Works is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2008, 06:31 PM   #16
2 Rivet Member
 
Arroyo Grande , California
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithC View Post
Hey rwrussom,

As you know, a niche market product placement that is intended to be associated with an established brand name like Airstream, demands at the minimum, the same quality production standards, plus superior product performance and design elements.

An example would be the Shelby Cobra GT series, which had enhanced interior style features and a kickass powerplant that establish much higher than the norm performance numbers.

These features combined became a niche marketing sub-set of the Ford Mustang automobile line.

What is it again that you are offering high-end RV purchasers?

Hey Kieth, you set a pretty high mark with that one, personally I am going after the '69 mustang GT500 convertible, but thats me.
More seriously I am striving for the quality of some of the better coach builders like vintage trailering or Timeless Travel Trailers.
rwrussom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2008, 06:43 PM   #17
2 Rivet Member
 
Arroyo Grande , California
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by 62overlander View Post
an honest man that does honest work at an honest rate will always be honestly employed. That is my business philosophy.

I also know that the definition of craftsman and accomplished craftsman can vary widely from person to person. I have been a professional woodworker for close to 20 years. During that time I have seen work praised that is total wood butchering and seen clients not even blink an eye at something that took more time than was budgeted. Perspective is a mighty big variable. I believe unless you have some one willing to buy your product and they are commissioning you to build something special, you will never get your investment out of it. I have well over 400 hours in my trailer and that does not include the polishing or the front half I still need to do. I just do not think I could ever recoup that kind of investment. Maybe things are different in California, but here on the East Coast somedays the sun does not shine.

I have thought long and hard about making a venture into custom interiors myself. I even own the domain name for a company, but have not yet been willing to stick my neck out there. Hope it works for you.

Well I am really in the exploring stage at this point. I don't mind risking some time, but see no point in going into something that is a non starter from the beginning. I was looking at the 400 - 500 hour range. If you cant get in the range of a new AS price for a quality custom, then it probably does not get to workable. I got a pretty good grasp on the costs and work involved, just don't know the $$ the market will come to. In any case this is not for the budget minded DIY AS owner.
rwrussom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2008, 03:05 AM   #18
Restorations done right
Commercial Member
 
Frank's Trailer Works's Avatar
 
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore , Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,545
Images: 2
I truly wish you the best of luck with this... I hope it works out.
Frank's Trailer Works is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2008, 07:40 AM   #19
Rivet Master
 
mandolindave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,190
Images: 4
My two cents

I have plenty of ideas to spruce up my trailer. Problem is that most of them would add weight.
My restoration ( customization ) guy has more work than he can handle. I don't think the market is all that small.
It is true that many RVers are on a budget and many prefer to work on their own rigs. Perhaps you could purchase some out of shape trailers and
doll them up on spec.
mandolindave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2008, 10:44 AM   #20
2 Rivet Member
 
Arroyo Grande , California
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20
62overlander... Thanks, we'll see how far it goes. How cool is that original AS radi you have? Did you ever get it fixed up?

mandolindave... That is my gerenal staring point, doing customs on spec. I am just trying to get a handle on the risk.

Thanks again for everyones thoughts and comments. I hope to have some ideas fleshed out in plan and 3d rendered models soon. I will post those also for comments and critiques.
rwrussom is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Solarmetrics - Out of Business? daneber Generators & Solar Power 11 08-19-2011 04:33 AM
Turn The Key And Nothing Happens Chaplain Kent Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... 102 04-20-2009 07:02 AM
Worth Investigating Further? '66 Overlander In Austin - Craigslist utee94 Dollars & Cents 55 07-27-2008 07:32 AM
investigating RV life, after getting wiped out innjtown Member Introductions 22 05-10-2008 11:10 PM
From RV Business article Coloradobus Airstream "In the News" 2 07-25-2007 12:20 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.