Choosing a TV ---Ford 250, Dodge 2500...or??

[andreasduess]

Originally Posted by SteveH

Yea, really, you could just do like they do in Canada, and pull your trailer with a minivan.

Oh, I'm sorry, you said you were interested in "safety, reliability and longevity", so then you do need a truck.

Any of today's minivans is superior in any imaginable way (engines, brakes, body) to any car or truck sold 30 years ago, when people still somehow managed to tow trailers safely and reliably.

I've towed horse trailers across mountain ranges with a 40 year old Land Rover. Drum brakes all round and 78hp. Problems? Zero.

The obsession with trucks as TVs borders on the irrational. Trucks make terrible daily drivers, or drivers in general. My next TV will either be a Mercedes M-Class BlueTec or a Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel. Both are capable of towing anything I could ever hope to tow.

[BorninRI]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Kristine,

My advise....drive as many as you can, for as long as you can.
Look for a dealer that has a good stock of "white" on the lot.

That usually indicates a robust commercial business which tends to enhance their knowledge of towing requirements and options.

BTW...nice teeth is as good an indicator as any of good health, but not necessarily applicable when choosing a tow vehicle.

Sweet Streams...

Bob

: )
I agree

[tailpipe]

Kristine, I have pulled trailers both commercially and recreationally for more years than I care to remember. The best advice I could give you is know what your trailer weighs, tanks full ready to go, know what your truck weighs full of gas and gear. This is scale weight...weigh them yourself.....Know the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight ( GCVW ) of the tow vehicle this is maximum weight of everything going down the road hooked up. Stay out of the conditions that are marginal. I went with a 2500 /250 series just for the extra capacity

[AKristine]

As always, I appreciate everyone's comments, observations and opinions. Saturday I will be up bright and early to have more driving experiences in both the Ford 250 and the Dodge 2500. Either due to a lack of experience....or my conservative nature, I am leaning towards an avoidance of the marginal zone --- hence the 3/4 ton test drives.

Last winter while photographing in Yellowstone, I rented a Ford Expedition out of Bozeman, MT -- what a gorgeous vehicle. I was three days into driving it until I realized that it had heated seats! Anyway...here's my point: One of my Facebook friends owns a 27ft International and tows with a Ford Expedition. Given all that I've read on the AS Forum, etc., I don't get how some people are OK with TVs that (I think) fall into the marginal zone. Please understand that I am not being critical. As much as I like the Ford Expedition, I would be fearful of using it as my TV. BTW, my focus is on owning either a 25 or 27 foot Airstream.

One more thought...while I have never purchased a used vehicle, I've started to wonder about the Certified Pre-owned avenue.

All good wishes for a great day.

Kristine

[DKB_SATX]

I think that CPO is a pretty good route for people who aren't comfortable with a regular "pig in a poke" used vehicle but want to avoid some of the depreciation hit of a new vehicle. Most of the manufacturer-sponsored CPO programs include long extended warranties, just be sure those cover the systems that are important to you. I've no idea how easy or hard it is to find a CPO vehicle set up just like you want it, but I guess if you're looking in the 3/4 ton range more of them will be set up like actual trucks than the glut of half-tons with low-numeric differentials and low-profile low-load tires that people buy to drive to their desk jobs.

Oh, and re: the Expedition vs. F250/RAM 2500: I'm guessing the only features of the Expedition that's not available on some trim level of those 2 trucks are the independent rear axle and maybe air-conditioned seats.

[AKristine]

Thank you! When you mention "systems" what do you mean? It will help me ask questions. I know about extended side mirrors and a rear view camera (for example) Also what kind of a tire isn't a.... "low-profile low-load tire"?

Kristine

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by AKristine

Thank you! When you mention "systems" what do you mean? It will help me ask questions. I know about extended side mirrors and a rear view camera (for example) Also what kind of a tire isn't a.... "low-profile low-load tire"?

Kristine

The low profile-low load thing is more an issue on the half-ton luxury cars masquerading as trucks, with 20" rims and low-profile tires that limit cargo and tongue weight. Ford does this to their King Ranch and Platinum F150s, for example.

For me, important systems for the long warranties are transmission, differential, engine, emissions and AC at the very least. With the heavily-integrated, complex "entertainment systems" replacing interchangeable radios, coverage for that might be important to you in newer vehicles too.

All of the CPO extended warranties will cover "powertrain" but what is and it not included in that will be in the fine print. ESPECIALLY if you go for a diesel, make sure the CPO coverage at least includes the same systems as the new-vehicle warranty, or negotiate other coverage that does... never EVER take their first offer of price for a service plan if you do buy one, by the way, that's a big money-maker for them and they can still make a profit at way less than the list price for it.

I don't mean to suggest that a diesel is more likely to have problems, but if it does, they can be more expensive to fix. Look for tricky exceptions like fuel injectors or high-pressure pumps, those are expensive items that have the most problems, so I'm sure warranty providers like to exclude them where they can get away with it.

[AKristine]

Priceless information....Thank you! Especially regarding what extended warranties really cover and the tricky exceptions. I have a great list of questions going. BTW, I see that your TV is a 2007 Ford F150 Lariat SuperCrew 5.4l 2WD. Why not a bigger engine and 4WD? Your Airstreams are longer models? Kristine

[DKB_SATX]

When I bought the '07, I only had the 24' trailer... The 28' trailer is so new-to-me that I haven't even brought it home (that's Sunday's task, in fact.)

Both of the trailers are vintage, so they don't present much challenge to the 5.4l most of the time (it's relatively flat here, after all.) They're both vintage trailers so they're much lighter than the current models. The titled gross weight on the 28' trailer is about 6,000 lb. so again it's not really challenging the truck. It requires some RPM to maintain 60-65 up a grade, but since that's not an everyday event the only thing it hurts is fuel consumption.

I bought the truck used when I bought the 24' Argosy. It does have the mechanical limited-slip differential which goes a long way toward providing enough traction in less-ideal situations, though of course there are real-world situations in which it's not enough and 4WD would be preferable. If I towed on lots of dirt roads or snowy mountain roads I'd make a different choice, and I would've bought a 4wd truck if it had been just-so in all the other respects that were important to me.

It was tough to find a nicely-equipped truck (trim-wise) with the 5.4l and a useful differential ratio. Actually it was somewhat tough to find the information (much less the right config) without putting my hands on each truck, there are lots of sales critters out there who don't know enough about what they're selling IMHO. One of the things Carmax does right is include the VIN in the listing, that let me get to an image of the original window sticker data to figure out the differential the truck had. It's hard to be obsessive-compulsive.

I have been satisfied with the '07 in all ways except fuel economy... I have the older 4-speed auto which does me no favors in that regard... but I won't save enough in the time I own this truck to make up the difference between its used price and the price of a new truck at the time with a 6-speed auto. If I'd been certain at the time that my partner would enjoy Airstreaming and had known what fun we would have, I might have bought a newer truck, but when the service plan runs out on this one I'll probably end up with a factory-order that addresses all the little things I would've done differently (obsessive-compulsive, remember?)

[AKristine]

Thank you...it all makes sense. You obviously are quite knowledgeable about trucks. I am looking forward to Saturday's adventure and what new things I will learn at the dealerships. As far as being obsessive/compulsive, I relate. In this case, I am determined to find the right truck for me. However, I will say that it isn't easy walking into a dealership as a 63-year-old woman in the market for a really nice pick-up. Oh well.... Again, many thanks for help. Kristine

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by AKristine

Priceless information....Thank you! Especially regarding what extended warranties really cover and the tricky exceptions. I have a great list of questions going. BTW, I see that your TV is a 2007 Ford F150 Lariat SuperCrew 5.4l 2WD. Why not a bigger engine and 4WD? Your Airstreams are longer models? Kristine

DO NOT purchase any "extended warranties" not offered by the manufacturer.
GMPP for General Motors,(General Motors Protection Plan), none are warrantees, more properly "extended service plans". They all have exemptions,
be aware of what they are.

Observations based on 25yrs GM Service Dept. experience.

Bob

[mutcth]

Originally Posted by AKristine

Anyway...here's my point: One of my Facebook friends owns a 27ft International and tows with a Ford Expedition. Given all that I've read on the AS Forum, etc., I don't get how some people are OK with TVs that (I think) fall into the marginal zone. Please understand that I am not being critical. As much as I like the Ford Expedition, I would be fearful of using it as my TV. BTW, my focus is on owning either a 25 or 27 foot Airstream.

Need to ask - why are you fearful? An Expedition rides better and handles better than most 3/4 ton trucks. Overall, it's probably a "safer" combination when properly hitched. Plus it has a max payload around 1,570 pounds and it can tow 8,700 lbs in EL 4x4 trim.

Andy Thomson, who I wholly respect as one of the leading experts in towing, is very keen on the Expedition thanks to the independent rear suspension providing better handling. There are also multiple owners here with years of experience towing 25' Airstreams with Expeditions or Navigators, the fancier version.

Buy what you feel comfortable with. But an Expedition can tow this, and it's more comfortable than a 3/4-ton truck. My only hesitation would be that the Expedition will probably get Ford's EcoBoost turbo V6 in a year or two, which would be quicker.

Tom

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by mutcth

Need to ask - why are you fearful? An Expedition rides better and handles better than most 3/4 ton trucks. Overall, it's probably a "safer" combination when properly hitched. Plus it has a max payload around 1,570 pounds and it can tow 8,700 lbs in EL 4x4 trim.

Andy Thomson, who I wholly respect as one of the leading experts in towing, is very keen on the Expedition thanks to the independent rear suspension providing better handling. There are also multiple owners here with years of experience towing 25' Airstreams with Expeditions or Navigators, the fancier version.

Buy what you feel comfortable with. But an Expedition can tow this, and it's more comfortable than a 3/4-ton truck. My only hesitation would be that the Expedition will probably get Ford's EcoBoost turbo V6 in a year or two, which would be quicker.

Tom

This is the direction to head. The EL version with the longer wheelbase. A PRO PRIDE hitch. And Mr Thomson's advice to be solicited on either this vehicle or another. CAN AM RV in London, ON. Contact him.

[m.hony]

I tow my 30' with a 1/2 ton.

[captmatt]

I found a F350 one ton diesel 7.3 with less than 75000 miles, just broken in. I will never have to worry about the weight of my travel trailer but I pay in other ways. Fuel cost cuts a little deeper and this beast is tough to drive (manual trans.) There are always compromises to make. good luck.

[gandttimes]

Well, I guess I just have to weigh in for good old extremely reliable,comfortable to drive and fuel efficient GMC. I have been towing for the last 5 years with a HD 1500 GMC with the Max Tow PKg. 7200 lb GVW and tow rating of 10500 lbs ,and the 6 Ltr engine works just great on all the mountain passes in BC. No, we don' t use mini vans to tow in Canada.
If I were to trade it would be to the 2014 GMC 6.2 Ltr Pkg that will be out in the fall with a tow capacity of 14000 lbs.
The 1/2 ton makes a great daily driver too,

[MrUKToad]

Originally Posted by gmeikle

No, we don' t use mini vans to tow in Canada.

Some of us do, although it's much to the chagrin of some of the diehards on here. However, the OP asked about trucks so trucks it must be....

[aftermath]

Kristine,

Kudos to you for doing the research before you buy. The problem with asking the question is that, while you are getting some very good input, you probably will be overloaded with choices and directions soon.

I tow my 25FB with a half ton Toyota and have been all over the west and through some of the passes you have mentioned. No problems at all but this is just me speaking. It sounds like you have made up your mind on the 3/4 ton and that is great if it buys you peace of mind. If you get out on the road and start questioning yourself, you have the wrong TV.

So, with that in mind I would second all the earlier comments that say you should get what you like the best. Any 3/4 ton will pull a 25 or 27 Airstream and you won't have to worry about living in the weight "border line". I would look at things like ride comfort, gas mileage, creature features, visibility and handling. Get one set up to tow and make sure it has trailer mirrors and rear view camera to help with hooking up. There are many good options for you and you won't make a mistake going with the one you like the best.

Best wishes. Let us know what your final decision was.

[m.hony]

Our Tundras ride better than a 3/4 ton when just being used as a daily driver. I don't think of it as a "marginal" tow vehicle at all. I feel safe and confident driving the combination. The only drawback is the small fuel tank. That is a problem with the short bed Duramax as well.

[dkottum]

Hmmm . . . 3/4 ton truck for 25-27' Airstream. Great if you need it, but probably don't.

We use an inexpensive regular cab 120" wheelbase 1/2 ton Ram with tow package, factory brake controller, 5.7 gas. Our ProPride hitch solves any stability questions towing the 25' Airstream, and it is also an easy daily driver. Great rig for months away from home.

We would much rather have the superior handling, more comfortable independent suspension (as well as short wheelbase) of the Ford Expedition or 2014 Grand Cherokee small diesel (!) but that's an additional $30,000 we would rather spend on enjoying retirement.

The big truck users will argue this 'til hell freezes over, but note the remarks of those who don't.

doug k