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Old 03-28-2006, 11:34 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnyusmc
From looking at the awning brackets and exaust fan duct, there is no sealant on anything that was screwed too the trailer. Quality Control!!!

Don
Gunny,

I do not think they are giving these units away.
Are you going to read someone in Mismanagement at Airstream the riot act?
Though, it sure does look sweet from the views of your photos.

R
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Old 03-30-2006, 07:53 AM   #22
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List of LEAK's

Yesterday the weather cleared and I got on top! I was shocked at what I found.
1. TV antenna not screwed too trailer
2. Guard between AC and frig duct held on by one loose screw
3. Awning bracket's not sealed
4. Buck rivet hole drilled but no rivet ( someone at airstream sealed the awning rail and ran the sealant right up too the buck rivet hole, but did nothing about the hole)
5. Plastic hood vent piece held on bu duble sided tape at top and bottom and not sealed. Screws stripped and loose.
Called airstream and the responce was " what do you want us too do, you know they are made by human's and they make mistakes"
WARNING!!
Everything that is held on by screw's is first held in place by double sidded tape and then the screws are put in with too much force resulting in stripped screws/leaks, some are sealed but in my case not all!!!!!!
My dealer has been great, but I left within days and am now in NC.
Airstream could care less about this customer and quality control.
I am out 8 hrs labor, 1 tube silkaflex, 34 stainless crews and 1 can of solvent.
Airstream also enformed me that wqter inside of an airstream is no problem??????????????? Wood and water are friend's and good for each other, so I sould have left the leaks????????
$60,000 for what! I'm sure glad I didn't sell my Non-Airstream Argosy Classic.

Don
Praying for sun shine and hopeing I found all the leak's!!!!
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Old 03-30-2006, 09:36 AM   #23
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Justice

Gunny,

I love my 'stream. It is old, leaking and holey.
You deserve better.
In no way do I suggest that you get your pressure up, rather, hug that handsome dog.
Do you write letters? I send letters, make calls and use the internet. The pen is mightier than the sword. I like few lawyers but use them. I used the Attorney General's office to get back $30, it took 30 hours or more but I was pissed and it was worth it! There is nothing harder but more satisfying than getting a large company to cough up money for a screw up that they created. Believe it or not it is good for Airstream to face the truth. The future of the company could depend on it. Unsatisfied customers tell 10 times more people than satisfied customers. That which is good for you is not always sweet.

R
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Old 03-30-2006, 10:54 AM   #24
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Don, I sent you a PM. Sorry to hear about the issues you are having.
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Old 03-30-2006, 12:11 PM   #25
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Don you have to remember: "Hand made by dedicated craftsman" ( small print; some assembly may be required) Seriously, sorry to hear of the problems. It's probably better that you straightened them out,at least you know that it's done right. From what owners say,when they take them back to the factory for warranty repairs, they do a great job. Now if the can just carry that over to the production line, Airstream would save themselves and owners a great deal of trouble and money.
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Old 03-30-2006, 12:17 PM   #26
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I'd have to agree. The service center does great work and the issues that Don has seen, clearly shouldn't have been able to proceed off the line in the condition Don found it. Now I know some things happen in transit, but clearly, in Don's case, there are more than a few things and combined, lead to someone really not on the ball. For starters, without any sealer or screws, how did the unit pass the water test? That should have been caught. From what it sounds like, there were several areas that show signs of water was getting in the unit, so I find it hard to believe that *if* this unit was given the water test, something couldn't have shown up....particularly from the roof!

Playing the devl's advocate, maybe it got damaged in transit and the dealer as part of the PDI replaced it and did a poor job. It's hard to say. Either way, going by what Don has shared, I think he's got some legit gripes...and for the price that is paid for these units........the hand made comments can only go so far. To me, because it was hand made, screws and caulk were missed....and the QC folks (more hand made labor) allowed the unit to proceed if in fact it left the factory that way). A lot of RVs are hand made. I don't see robots building Jaycos, yet if they leak and have similar problems, they cost half what our units cost!
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Old 03-30-2006, 01:27 PM   #27
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hi gunny and others.......

keeping dry, a basic expectation for an airstream....right?

this unit is brand new ....as in just a month......do not let this issue slip away....

take photos of every seam, rivet, screw, cladding, edge in question....take close ups.....date the photos. do not under estimate the value of photo documentation....or use a good digi video cam and make a video....with voice over of each issue...this is powerful stuff...

it's probably too late for pics of the water inside....those would be helpful too....

with a new unit with this many leaks.....and the long term negatives of these leaks....i'd be documenting for a lemon law case or exchange for a new/different trailer...

no one wants to go this route unless absolutely needed...but LEAKS everywhere would get me started...at least preparing for that possibility.

this isn't how a new buyer should be treated and both the factory and dealer are at fault and at obligation to remedy.....

i doubt that most dealers climb a ladder and inspect the top for issues....maybe they need to start...

gunny, you've not mentioned your dealer....who is it? have you notified them....

as painful as it is for camping and usage......and as difficult as confrontation can be.......i'd return the trailer to the dealer......and insist they return it to the factory for remedy...and that you will not accept less than that....

perhaps you'd like to visit j/c ohio....in a few weeks to pick up your repaired trailer...that's fine....but no way would i accept the cost and time for the transport....just to do the original basic construction you have already paid for....and expected to be done correctly before purchase.

don't back down....other weaker buyers need your backbone...

yes they are built by humans and error happen but they will not improve the checks/inspections/quality control without US HUMANS holding them accountable...


i saw a quicksilver.....just about to roll out the door, inches from the exit....and having one last inspection......well guess what was missing.....the awning....just the center roll....the brackets were attached and all the fasteners....just no awning!!!

the q/c guy felt good that he caught this........please.....

and twink......lots of 'stuff' happens to units after the shower/leak test.....that violate the integrity of the shell...also units with known leaks continue down the line....if stopping to repair it delays the line....and if the repair can be effected......later....but it shouldn't get to austin texas for this....

cheers
2air'
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Old 03-30-2006, 01:47 PM   #28
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Don,

That's a shame. I saw your trailer before you picked it up and it's a beauty.

I had several warranty issues on my 2006 Airstream. I didn't let it bother me as I understand that things are sometimes less than perfect and that's why we have warranties. All my issues were taken care of by the dealer and I am satisfied.

The real problem, as I see it, is there is no way to know the extent of damage between the interior walls and the skin. I shudder to think of the mold that may be growing in the soggy insulation.

This is more than a simple warranty issue. Poor construction and QC at the factory has potentially damaged a trailer that is less than 1 month old. Airstream should be held responsible for more than merely sealing the leaks. Full replacement sounds fair. They are responsible for any possible damage to the new unit. Let them be the ones to worry about future problems because possible serious damage. You deserve what you paid high dollars for, a new, high quality trailer.

I was about to sell my 2006 Safari 25 FB LS to a friend and order an 2007 SE like yours, but now I think I will stick with the one I have. At least I know it doesn't leak and all the problems from the factory have been ironed out. I know that problems as great as yours are rare but, if Airstream won't acknowledge and address these issues, then they won't get any more of my money. I've suggested to my friend to not take a chance on a new Airstream but look instead for a used Airstream that is proven worthy of the price and name.

Ed
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Old 03-30-2006, 01:49 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman

and twink......lots of 'stuff' happens to units after the shower/leak test.....that violate the integrity of the shell...also units with known leaks continue down the line....if stopping to repair it delays the line....and if the repair can be effected......later....but it shouldn't get to austin texas for this....

cheers
2air'
I agree, a unit should not leave if it is not properly QC'd. I've been to the factory 2x and taken the tour at least 5 or 6 times and have seen the water test done at least 3x. From watching the production, all things that would compromise the skin seem to be done and sealed before the water test (windows, doors, A/C, running lights, tail lights, etc-- which I have pictures of the process). There should be few, if any items added after the fact that would compromise the water tight sealing of the shell after parts are added and the water test given.

We were told that each unit goes through the water test and if it fails the water test, it cannot proceed until it passes the water test. That makes sense to me because I can hardly see them knowing there is a leak, keeping the unit on the line, still installing insulation, interior walls, etc, only to remove them to re-seal as they seal from both the inside and outside since any additional water test failure will in fact saturate the interior components. If they kept it on the line, they would still need to deal with the water issues, so either way, there could be a delay if it was kept on the line and fixed or taken off as the unit will need to go back through the water test, no doubt bumping some other units on the line ready for the same test.

Going by what Don has said, there are just too may things that were either done poorly, or not done at all, most of which a good QC would have caught, which I'm starting to think most of the issues were not in transit, but left the factory that way (again, going by what Don describes). My guess is that this one in fact passed through the system and was missed where it should have been caught. I can blame in transit items for a number of things, but some of what Don posted clearly puts some of the issues squarely on the production and QC teams.

I know mistakes can be made, but if you have a second and third set of eyes on something, then things like missing screws, non-caulked items, unfilled rivet holes, etc tend not to have as many issues on the same unit, which does not appear to be the case with Don's new unit. I can't say this is typical of what comes off the line, or if this is just an FB issue. If I were a new FB customer, I'd be looking at my new FB unit more closely before taking delivery right about now though based on Don's findings.
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Old 03-30-2006, 02:14 PM   #30
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"We were told that each unit goes through the water test and if it fails the water test, it cannot proceed until it passes the water test."

hi silvertwinkie.....

yea, i've done the tour at least that many times too...learned something new everytime....

did you see any units pulled 'off' the line....did you even see space to sideline a unit after the water station...or get them back inline if needed again? i sure didn't....and couldn't figure out how this would happen or if....

this water display is primarily to assure the sikaflex/skin/window frames/skylights are intact...no leaks that need to be addressed with another tube of gray goo....that needs to be applied before insulation/inner skin...

but this doesn't cover issues like poorly fitted entry doors, storage doors, window latches and so on.....if these items leak they do not stop and fix it and redo the water test....

also items appied after the water test (when are the awning mounted)...i don't see any awning headed into the water tunnel in my pics...do you?

my unit had a vista view window broken out well after the water test...this complete frame/assembly/glass was replaced.....and the unit did not go back through the water slide.... ....

passing the water test is just like passing inspection at every quality check point....
and subject to interpretation.

back to gunny's unit.......he should not accept this issue or fix it himself....it doesn't appear to have passed the 'texas water test'....

cheers
2air'
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Old 03-30-2006, 02:53 PM   #31
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No, my pics don't have the awning, nor do they show an area where re-seal work is done if a shell leak happens. I would think that if a unit does leak (outside of a door or something similar), it is fixed and the test done again, possibly on the spot. In Don's case, it would appear that these issues:

1. TV antenna not screwed too trailer
2. Guard between AC and frig duct held on by one loose screw
4. Buck rivet hole drilled but no rivet ( someone at airstream sealed the awning rail and ran the sealant right up too the buck rivet hole, but did nothing about the hole)
5. Plastic hood vent piece held on bu duble sided tape at top and bottom and not sealed. Screws stripped and loose.

.....would have produced some sort of leak event. Seems that he got up there and the leaks might be gone (might not too). Maybe they sealed it really good and it didn't leak in the test, but after the unit flexed a bit without the proper screws or stripped screws, a the leak developed.....either way you look at it, the QC on this coach seems somewhat poor not to mention the hand crafting.

Even if you one goes with the thought that it didn't leak, where were the QC checks to make sure the antenna was screwed down, that the plastic hood vent was secured with something more than double sided tape, rivet hole and no rivet or sealer, awning brackets not sealed? If it's not a QC check, maybe it should be or if they had a rookie that day, that someone double checked his/her work. Tell you one thing, if they met or exceeded my current salary, and gave me a contract for say at least 5 years, I'd do the QC and I tell you another thing, these things wouldn't leave until they were right, and most issue that came up would be rare or done while in transit....even if it meant I had to climb over each unit to make sure all the rivets were in place, screws, caulk, etc!

Maybe I'm a bit sensitive to the QC issue since I had a wreck of a 2003 and a 2004 that leaked. Traded the 2003 and Airstream fixed very well the issues of the 2004 that I had. Reading Don's issues really is unfortunate. Not typical of what I've seen in 3 years, but shameful nonetheless.
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Old 04-24-2006, 05:09 PM   #32
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2006 Safari LSSE 25'

During my conversation with Bob Wheeler , he mentioned that he would be out of town from 20 Apr till end of mouth.
So I arrived at Jackson Center on 22 Apr.
Chris Burch, the Service Advisor, fixed all the defects without question, and did it in one day by putting me at the top of the service list. They even found a problem with the door and fixed it.
Airstream need's a President who think's like his service dept. personel!!!
On the Road Again at 0530 in the morning.

THANK's Chris

Don
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