MPPT Solar and Lithium Question

[68 Overlander]

Originally Posted by waninae39

I replaced the PD4655LV with the victron 12v/3000w/50A converter/inverter + remote control panel . i also added a victron orion 12v-12v one way islolator so that the TV can charge the As , but no reverse flow.
with my BB lion battery the output of the orion can be higher that the TV input

You shouldn't have had any reverse flow. Those things are expensive.

[afk314]

Hi all,

This winter, I hope to conclude my electrical work on the trailer. The last remaining bits are:

1. 3000VA MultiPlus Inverter Charger
2. Venus Controller
3. More beefy inverter fuse & cabling

However, I know that I will need to hook everything together (VE.Direct cables?) and I will also need to replace my AC and DC distribution panels. Something tells me it would be better to do that than try to reuse the panels in the Progressive Dynamics setup.

Can someone help me put together a parts list to finish this work.

(Background: this year I added 300Ah Battle Born, 500w roof-top solar, Victron monitor, Victron solar controller) - so this will make my install much like the others discussed here.

Thanks!

[daleyocum]

Originally Posted by afk314

Hi all,

This winter, I hope to conclude my electrical work on the trailer. The last remaining bits are:

1. 3000VA MultiPlus Inverter Charger
2. Venus Controller
3. More beefy inverter fuse & cabling

However, I know that I will need to hook everything together (VE.Direct cables?) and I will also need to replace my AC and DC distribution panels. Something tells me it would be better to do that than try to reuse the panels in the Progressive Dynamics setup.

Can someone help me put together a parts list to finish this work.

(Background: this year I added 300Ah Battle Born, 500w roof-top solar, Victron monitor, Victron solar controller) - so this will make my install much like the others discussed here.

Thanks!

I didn't replace my AC or DC panels in my 2018 when building my system but you could. I just removed the charger from the bottom of the existing system and rewired stuff. I used two separate little fuse panels under the twin bed. One for things I didn't want switched on and off by the use/store switch and one for things I did (in addition to the DC fuses in the existing panel.) That way I can turn off the majority of the trailer easily while driving with one flip of the switch but still have the solar charger working, fridge running, etc. When actually storing I disconnect the main line for the battery with the red Blue Sea switch.

The only other blue boxes you'd probably want is a Victron DC-DC converter to charge the battery from your tow vehicle while driving. I used the Orion-Tr
12/12-9. You'll also want the Digital Multi Control 200A GX to control the Multiplus on a day to day basis (turn on and off the inverter, set the current from the shore.) After that it's just odds and ends.

Here's a few pictures from my 25FB twin. The dimmer you see is for red lights installed throughout the trailer (we're astronomy nerds so ignore that.)

[waninae39]

my as 22fb has very simialr parts. only one BB lion battery now , but space for one more

i didn't know they could be placed on their side

here is the view of my monitor area above the fridge

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Once you pull the converter from under the power panel, it makes a nice place to mount an "internal" EMS..... I haven't quite pulled the trigger on that, but I'm thinking about it.

Bob

[daleyocum]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Once you pull the converter from under the power panel, it makes a nice place to mount an "internal" EMS..... I haven't quite pulled the trigger on that, but I'm thinking about it.

Bob

If you have a Multiplus hybrid inverter what other EMS do you need?

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by daleyocum

If you have a Multiplus hybrid inverter what other EMS do you need?

Hi

EMS ( in terms of surge suppressor ) is at least as important with a very expensive hybrid as it is with a much less expensive converter / charger. The things it protects you from don't get taken care of by the Mulit.

EMS ( in terms of control panels) still is useful with a multi. I run a Venus. Others run Color Panels. One very basic function you need to manage is turning the inverter on and off (yes a three position switch will handle that). Being able to monitor and co-ordinate what the multi is doing can come in handy.

Yes, two very different things with the same abbreviation .... are we talking about a TV (27") or a TV (diesel) ....

Bob

[waninae39]

the 3 position switch on the multi unit broke during install.
victron will not send me a part
i could not find any supplier that sells 0.05" pitch switches
all i could find were 0.1" pitch

i got the remote panel and it works 100%. now i can shut it off remotely

see it in my recent post above

i agree with uncle bob

EMS is a MUST

it is your first line of defense before all the expensive electrics.
It has saved our bacon a few times especially during brown outs

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by waninae39

the 3 position switch on the multi unit broke during install.
victron will not send me a part
i could not find any supplier that sells 0.05" pitch switches
all i could find were 0.1" pitch

i got the remote panel and it works 100%. now i can shut it off remotely

see it in my recent post above

i agree with uncle bob

EMS is a MUST

it is your first line of defense before all the expensive electrics.
It has saved our bacon a few times especially during brown outs

Hi

If you search for 0.05" spacing switches you will not find anything. They are likely either 1 mm or 1.25 mm metric spacing leads ( or maybe 1.2 mm ... ). It's a crazy world !!!

======

I could probably head over to Mouser and narrow things down a bit. Trying to do that would trigger the "subscribe to the newsletter" popup. That would throw all this typing away .... guess we won't be doing that anymore ...

Bob

[SilverHouseDreams]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

I could probably head over to Mouser and narrow things down a bit. Trying to do that would trigger the "subscribe to the newsletter" popup. That would throw all this typing away .... guess we won't be doing that anymore ...

Bob

But. You could save 10%! Subscribe today!

This cracked me up, as I also avoid Mouser, Newark and a few other sites for the same reason.

[daleyocum]

Originally Posted by waninae39

the 3 position switch on the multi unit broke during install.
victron will not send me a part
i could not find any supplier that sells 0.05" pitch switches
all i could find were 0.1" pitch

i got the remote panel and it works 100%. now i can shut it off remotely

see it in my recent post above

i agree with uncle bob

EMS is a MUST

it is your first line of defense before all the expensive electrics.
It has saved our bacon a few times especially during brown outs

My point, poorly articulated, is since Multi handles low and high voltage conditions by its nature (you set parameters for them) surges are the only question mark that an EMS might help with. I wonder how good the built in surge suppression is within the Multi?

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by daleyocum

My point, poorly articulated, is since Multi handles low and high voltage conditions by its nature (you set parameters for them) surges are the only question mark that an EMS might help with. I wonder how good the built in surge suppression is within the Multi?

Hi

Well.... not really. The Multi will try to boost a low voltage line. It's not really designed to cut off from a line in the same fashion an EMS is. It's more like a UPS. The EMS will totally isolate you (cut you off) when it sees a line go high or low.

If there is a surge suppression spec (or function) on the Multi, Victron has hidden it well. ( Surge suppression = clipping that 1,600V / 300A 10us wide spike on the line ).

Bob

[wulfraat]

Bob - are your sure the multi plus will use the inverter capability to increase AC voltage? In my install, I’ve only ever observed input voltage = output voltage when using shore power / genset, even in Assist mode.

It will certainly supplement amperage, but I have not seen it make corrections for low input voltage (at least down to 107v)

[daleyocum]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Well.... not really. The Multi will try to boost a low voltage line. It's not really designed to cut off from a line in the same fashion an EMS is. It's more like a UPS. The EMS will totally isolate you (cut you off) when it sees a line go high or low.

If there is a surge suppression spec (or function) on the Multi, Victron has hidden it well. ( Surge suppression = clipping that 1,600V / 300A 10us wide spike on the line ).

Bob

I wonder, then, what the low voltage setting on the Multiplus is for if not to cut off at that voltage?

I’d sure love to talk with the engineers of this magical box to find out what it is really doing with regards to voltage boosting, surge protection, and voltage cutoff. Hard to test.

[Llittle54]

I’ve read the entire string, wow, lots of info. I’m now considering the Multiplus 2000, coupled with 2 100 ah Battleborns, I have 300 w solar and a Victron MPPT and a 30A system. My newest area of confusion is how to wire the sub panel. Here’s my assumptions (we all know what assume means), the Multiplus will allow for 2 circuits, one on only when AC is present and the other when the Multiplus uses its inverter. On the AC detected side I assume the water heater, air conditioner and fridge would be controlled. Do these all go on the same breaker? How would I wire the sub panel? Details on both the Multiplus circuits would be great!

[wulfraat]

Originally Posted by Llittle54

I’ve read the entire string, wow, lots of info. I’m now considering the Multiplus 2000, coupled with 2 100 ah Battleborns, I have 300 w solar and a Victron MPPT and a 30A system. My newest area of confusion is how to wire the sub panel. Here’s my assumptions (we all know what assume means), the Multiplus will allow for 2 circuits, one on only when AC is present and the other when the Multiplus uses its inverter. On the AC detected side I assume the water heater, air conditioner and fridge would be controlled. Do these all go on the same breaker? How would I wire the sub panel? Details on both the Multiplus circuits would be great!

Do you have 30A or 50A service? Ie 1 air conditioner or 2?

[SilverHouseDreams]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

Bob - are your sure the multi plus will use the inverter capability to increase AC voltage? In my install, I’ve only ever observed input voltage = output voltage when using shore power / genset, even in Assist mode.

It will certainly supplement amperage, but I have not seen it make corrections for low input voltage (at least down to 107v)

That is how it “knows” to provide supplemental current. It tracks input voltage and output voltage, it sets output to match input. Under load input drops, thus it supplements to maintain the previous output voltage. It will not correct defective voltage, it just maintains the voltage during demand peaks.

[wulfraat]

Originally Posted by SilverHouseDreams

That is how it “knows” to provide supplemental current. It tracks input voltage and output voltage, it sets output to match input. Under load input drops, thus it supplements to maintain the previous output voltage. It will not correct defective voltage, it just maintains the voltage during demand peaks.

I think we are saying the same thing... my observation (with my install anyways) is that input voltage will absolutely drop under load as expected, and output voltage drops too in concert, whether power assist is active or not. So voltage is always the same (in vs out) - only current is supplemented (if/when needed) to deliver the appropriate wattage for the demand on the output side.

For instance - on genset I’ll see 122v input and output with say 3A AC current demand on the output side.

When I run the air con input voltage will drop to say 110v, and input current will max out at 12A (based on my set threshold).... output voltage will also drop to 110v (matches input voltage) but current will be 17-18A on the output side to deliver the wattage demanded by the air con, via the power assist mode / hybrid inverter on the multi plus.

The multi plus “knows” when to supplement current based on the threshold set (range is 8A-50A) on ccgx or the color control, not based on if input voltage drops below a certain threshold. In fact during testing I was able to collapse the genset supply voltage (below 105v headed to a stall) and that caused the multiplus to cut off all power on the output side and and reset itself....

When I run my little honda 2000 genset I set the assist limit to 12A when at altitude because above that demand level system voltage drops below 110v... so I force the multiplus to kick in when we hit 12A supply side current to help out and not create an Undesirable low voltage situation on the output side.

[Llittle54]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

do you have 30a or 50a service? Ie 1 air conditioner or 2?

30a

[wulfraat]

If you have a Victron multiplus 2000 and 200ah of batts I’d suggest a split panel. Run your mains to a 30A breaker on your main panel. From there run to the multiplus line In.

From the multiplus run one line (inverter) back to your panel in branch A, and put everything on that branch with the exception of electric hot water heater and AC circuits.

Run a second line (none inverted/pass-through) from the multiplus to branch B on your panel and connect water heater and AC to that branch.

You need a new panel - the stock one does not support this config. Make sure you run proper wire gauge on all lines - all should be rated for 30A. Recommend marine wiring vs residential romex.