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Old 08-16-2017, 01:44 PM   #1
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1976 29' Ambassador
Dallas , Texas
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Posts: 140
Full Monty - Wiring Diagram Review

Hi all,

I am in the middle of a shell off restoration of a 76 ambassador and am almost ready to begin my wiring. I have created an electrical diagram of how I think all the main components should come together but am still not certain on a few items.

I would really appreciate it if some one could review the diagram and provide me with feedback on the adjustments needed.

I have reviewed many threads and other sites but am looking for direct feedback on this diagram.

Thanks in advance.

Tom
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Old 08-17-2017, 05:01 PM   #2
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Lewster? Are you out there?!?!
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Old 08-17-2017, 06:13 PM   #3
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1974 31' Sovereign
1979 23' Safari
Wayland , New York
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I'll hit a few of the items.

Jack and breakaway switch can be fused at the fuse box.

Battery disconnect switch on the positive battery output not negative side. Both doesn't hurt. But positive is more important.

AC ground gets grounded to the frame. The neutral and ground do NOT get connected in the breaker panel.

Positive 12vdc from tow vehicle can go to the positive on the main D.C. panel. It should be fused, current can flow both ways.

Can't help on the upper left.

My quick .02.
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Old 08-17-2017, 06:56 PM   #4
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2017 30' Classic
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Hi

If you are going to go this "full bore", I would most certainly add a temperature probe ....

Bob
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Old 08-18-2017, 12:59 PM   #5
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1976 29' Ambassador
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Thank you both for your replies.

JoeSilver -

1. I do have a switch on the positive side of the battery labeled "inverter switch" but it is after the junction post. Are you saying there should be one between the battery positive terminal and the junction post?

2. Good point, your point made me notice that left off the +12vdc wire from the +busbar to the main D.C. panel. However, I'm pretty sure my D.C. main panel only has one spot for a +12vdc.

Can i wire the +12vdc from the trailer to the +busbar to get the same result or am i missing something else?
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Old 08-18-2017, 01:19 PM   #6
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Also, Uncle Bob, when you say temperature probe are you referring to something to monitor the battery temperature? If so, I have the covered with the T-Sense that goes to the Victron Battery monitor shunt.
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Old 08-19-2017, 09:27 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tabney0315 View Post
Also, Uncle Bob, when you say temperature probe are you referring to something to monitor the battery temperature? If so, I have the covered with the T-Sense that goes to the Victron Battery monitor shunt.
Hi

Sorry, my tired old eyes missed that little line ....

Bob
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Old 08-19-2017, 10:22 AM   #8
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1995 34' Limited
1978 23' Safari
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Anyway to enlarge the diagrams an print it? It's quite hard to follow the schematics and the labels are hard to read.
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Old 08-19-2017, 10:36 AM   #9
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Subscribed. I'm very interested in how this develops as I need much the same for my Sovereign project. Are you going to publish with revisions? Because that would be awesome.

I can't add much but I'd be interested to know which auto transfer switch you selected as I was leaning towards a manual version after finding lots of negative reviews; and what style of fuses are preferred for breakaway switches?

William
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Old 08-19-2017, 11:39 AM   #10
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I'd be reluctant to put a fuse on the Breakaway switch.

If you need it the trailer is already headed for the ditch. I wouldn't be worried about the wiring or magnets shorting out.
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Old 08-19-2017, 11:51 AM   #11
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1974 31' Sovereign
1979 23' Safari
Wayland , New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tabney0315 View Post
Thank you both for your replies.

JoeSilver -

1. I do have a switch on the positive side of the battery labeled "inverter switch" but it is after the junction post. Are you saying there should be one between the battery positive terminal and the junction post?

You want to have a switch/breaker/disconnect as close as possible to the positive output(within 16-18") of on the battery itself. Before it connects to anything else or junctions. It's there to protect wiring batteries and everything else from a short with no protection. A battery short with no protection, well let me say you'd be surprised how much power they can produce.

2. Good point, your point made me notice that left off the +12vdc wire from the +busbar to the main D.C. panel. However, I'm pretty sure my D.C. main panel only has one spot for a +12vdc.

Can i wire the +12vdc from the trailer to the +busbar to get the same result or am i missing something else?
Yep you can run it right to what most would think of as the output on the DC panel. The current will flow 'backwards' through a fuse to the DC bus. Current doesn't care. That is how I have mine connected to my D.C. Fuse panel. The fuse helps add protection to the line.

Joe
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Old 08-19-2017, 11:52 AM   #12
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1974 31' Sovereign
1979 23' Safari
Wayland , New York
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This got lumped inside the quote box, just to be sure you see it.

You want to have a switch/breaker/disconnect as close as possible to the positive output(within 16-18") of on the battery itself. Before it connects to anything else or junctions. It's there to protect wiring batteries and everything else from a short with no protection. A battery short with no protection, well let me say you'd be surprised how much power they can produce.
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Old 08-21-2017, 02:59 PM   #13
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1972 29' Ambassador
Boynton Beach , Florida
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Some wiring thoughts...

I like having separate utility 110V circuits, one that runs through the inverter, one that doesn't. My Xantrex 1800w inverter can only pass so much juice through. You want to be able to run the AC/space heater and the coffee machine AND blast the stereo! (BTW: that Xantrex auto-senses whether or not you're connected to shore power, so no extra switch)

I wired in a complete second system for my second AC. Got one of those 50A to twin 30A splitters, and then wired the cable directly into a small panel with a 15A plug attached to it.

Go with stranded wire if you can, not romex. I've had so many problems dealing with the romex!

Wire in an exterior plug near the fresh water fill. Comes in amazingly handy!

I like using terminal strips for the 12V system- run a fat wire to a central location, install the strip, then do all of your branches from there. Case in point: I recently installed an overhead storage area above the bed. Ran a new circuit up to a terminal strip inside the cabinet, then ran separate wiring from there to the three switched lights and two fans.

Label all of your wiring as you install it, like "to inverter" "from inverter" "refrigerator", etc. Your wiring diagram is excellent, but maybe change it around so that it corresponds to actual locations in the trailer. You're probably going to need it when it's dark, you pulled in late to a campground, nothing works, and your flashlight is dead. I call this "writing notes to my future self". Being able to troubleshoot problems fast will take you from tears to toasts in no time!

Leave strings in the wall as you run your wire, so you can pull additional wires in the future.

I like these switches: https://goo.gl/MdRN4J
Drilling a round hole is way easier than drilling a square one.

Good luck!
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Old 08-22-2017, 11:10 AM   #14
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1959 24' Tradewind
Twin Falls , Idaho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tabney0315 View Post
Hi all,

I am in the middle of a shell off restoration of a 76 ambassador and am almost ready to begin my wiring. I have created an electrical diagram of how I think all the main components should come together but am still not certain on a few items.

I would really appreciate it if some one could review the diagram and provide me with feedback on the adjustments needed.

I have reviewed many threads and other sites but am looking for direct feedback on this diagram.

Thanks in advance.

Tom
I will be doing this on my Tradewind here before long, so I'm really interested in this. What did you use to do the drawing?
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Old 08-22-2017, 01:18 PM   #15
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1976 29' Ambassador
Dallas , Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truckasaurus View Post
Subscribed. I'm very interested in how this develops as I need much the same for my Sovereign project. Are you going to publish with revisions? Because that would be awesome.

I can't add much but I'd be interested to know which auto transfer switch you selected as I was leaning towards a manual version after finding lots of negative reviews; and what style of fuses are preferred for breakaway switches?

William
I added a 30amp inlet in the front of the trailer and I do not want to mess with switching over the source manually. I know I wouldn't plug into both inlets but this will be able to manage it.

The ATS I bought is the Progressive Dynamics PD 5100 30 Amp Transfer Relay Part #PD5110610V.

As for fuses for breakaway, i'm not sure. I'll just go with out a fuse from the point made below.
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Old 08-22-2017, 01:20 PM   #16
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1976 29' Ambassador
Dallas , Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiJoeSilver View Post
This got lumped inside the quote box, just to be sure you see it.

You want to have a switch/breaker/disconnect as close as possible to the positive output(within 16-18") of on the battery itself. Before it connects to anything else or junctions. It's there to protect wiring batteries and everything else from a short with no protection. A battery short with no protection, well let me say you'd be surprised how much power they can produce.
JoeSilver, thank you very much for your input. I'll incorporate this into the design.
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Old 08-22-2017, 01:31 PM   #17
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1974 31' Sovereign
1979 23' Safari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markdoane View Post
I'd be reluctant to put a fuse on the Breakaway switch.

If you need it the trailer is already headed for the ditch. I wouldn't be worried about the wiring or magnets shorting out.
It's not when it's in use that you need to worry, it's when it's not. Getting a cut or frayed or broken wire with a direct short with no protection is a bad ending.

If you use a 30 or 50 amp fuse it'll allow all the current needed for a breakaway but protect you in case of a direct short.

Consider an AC circuit for a water heater. Consider using AFCI/GFCI breakers for extra protection.
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Old 08-22-2017, 01:39 PM   #18
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1976 29' Ambassador
Dallas , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzyHomemakr View Post
Some wiring thoughts...

I like having separate utility 110V circuits, one that runs through the inverter, one that doesn't. My Xantrex 1800w inverter can only pass so much juice through. You want to be able to run the AC/space heater and the coffee machine AND blast the stereo! (BTW: that Xantrex auto-senses whether or not you're connected to shore power, so no extra switch)
Thank you very much for your reply. If I understand your point correctly, the Victron Inverter/Charger has an internal automatic transfer switch which accomplishes the same thing. I'd try to explain it but THE expert, Lewster, has already done so.
Below is a quote from Lewster on a thread in this forum. Post #10.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f449...ml#post1681962

"An inverter/charger operates in an entirely different way. First and by definition, an inverter/charger (there is no converter in this device) has an internal automatic transfer switch, which I will get into in a minute. When on shore power, the charger section of the unit is producing 12VDC (nominal) to charger the batteries. All DC loads are drawn directly from the batteries, unlike a converter, which will also power the DC loads when on grid. Also an inverter/charger's internal transfer switch will 'pass-thru' the incoming 120VAC from the shore power to whatever 120VAC outlets are wired to it. It will also not allow the unit to be 'inverting', as this function is strictly reserved for off-grid battery power (see below) and will essentially be in standby mode during this time.

Next, when off-grid and the inverter section of the device is activated, the unit produces 120VAC power from the battery bank and sends it to whatever 120VAC outlets are wired to it. These are the SAME outlets as described in the paragraph above. This is where the transfer switch comes into play.

The transfer switch will either be passing thru shore power if present and energizing the charging section, or will switch over to power the outlets from the batteries when off-grid and disable the charger. "

I wired in a complete second system for my second AC. Got one of those 50A to twin 30A splitters, and then wired the cable directly into a small panel with a 15A plug attached to it.

Go with stranded wire if you can, not romex. I've had so many problems dealing with the romex!
Great point. I've researched that topic at nauseam on which way to go and went with all Marine tinned stranded wire from Pacer.com. It has been more expensive for sure, but might as well do it right while I have all the access.
Wire in an exterior plug near the fresh water fill. Comes in amazingly handy!

I like using terminal strips for the 12V system- run a fat wire to a central location, install the strip, then do all of your branches from there. Case in point: I recently installed an overhead storage area above the bed. Ran a new circuit up to a terminal strip inside the cabinet, then ran separate wiring from there to the three switched lights and two fans.



Label all of your wiring as you install it, like "to inverter" "from inverter" "refrigerator", etc. Your wiring diagram is excellent, but maybe change it around so that it corresponds to actual locations in the trailer. You're probably going to need it when it's dark, you pulled in late to a campground, nothing works, and your flashlight is dead. I call this "writing notes to my future self". Being able to troubleshoot problems fast will take you from tears to toasts in no time!
Yes great point. I've done this as well. I created a diagram of the shell with each circuit run labeled by appliance and color. I've already started the wiring the AC/DC circuits just hoping for final confirmation or adjustments on how to bring it all together in where the "main components" connect.
Leave strings in the wall as you run your wire, so you can pull additional wires in the future.
Good idea. I'm going to figure out how to incorporate this now!!
I like these switches: https://goo.gl/MdRN4J
Drilling a round hole is way easier than drilling a square one.

Good luck!
ddd
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Old 08-22-2017, 01:41 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Trons4u View Post
I will be doing this on my Tradewind here before long, so I'm really interested in this. What did you use to do the drawing?
I created the diagram in Adobe Illustrator. It takes some time to make adjustments so once I gather all final feedback. I'll go back and adjust.
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Old 08-22-2017, 01:48 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiJoeSilver View Post
It's not when it's in use that you need to worry, it's when it's not. Getting a cut or frayed or broken wire with a direct short with no protection is a bad ending.

If you use a 30 or 50 amp fuse it'll allow all the current needed for a breakaway but protect you in case of a direct short.
Ok. I like this idea.
Consider an AC circuit for a water heater. Consider using AFCI/GFCI breakers for extra protection.
My water heater is the Precision Temp tankless. It only runs on LP and DC for controls. Should I add a spare AC outlet where the water heater will be in case a future water heater requires AC power?
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