Firefly and Propane readout

[Pete B55]

I have a 2017 Classic with the Firefly panel that shows the tank levels, LPG tank levels and battery level.

After I did a solar/Lithium installation, my LPGs show 0% and my Battery level shows zero - but they are all full indicating I probably accidentally pulled a sensor wire from the Firefly system . The connection to the sea-level system on the tanks appear fine.

I called Airstream trying to get a Firefly schematic and after two days that said non exists.

Has anyone seen this type of problem or know where the LPG and battery sense wires enter the Firefly system?
Thanks
Pete

[AWCHIEF]

Interesting. So Airstream is installing electronics without any technical schematics or diagrams. That might explain some of the increased QA issues.

[Airhead2018]

Having same issue on our 2018 classic 30'. Battery volts are good but Propane tanks show empty but gauge on tanks show full. Manual refers to checking your supplied Firefly manual which we did not get. Found faulty crimped wires leading to sending units on propane tanks but it did not fix problem. Also there is a smaller display under the galley sink which showed the Alden water temps and the tech told me NOT to touch. Well you know how that went and now it will not display Alden water temps. We have no documentation on how to fix that either. Will let you know what we find out.

[kendrick.l.j]

I know this will sound really snarky but after all that the 2017 Classic owners went through over last winter ...AS sent out systems without sufficient information? Imagine that! I am sorry to hear that the 2018 s are rolling out with some of the same issues that the 2017s have had, it really is a shame that AS isn't following these discussions and hasn't learned to fix their own problems and really does leave it up to the individual owners to address issues, the Classic to the Base camp. Wow.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

I suspect that there is a bit of tangled communication here. There probably are not publicly available schematics of the *internals* of the Firefly system. There aught to be schematics / diagrams of how the system is wired into the trailer. At this point in the production cycle, those diagrams may or may not be "public". A *lot* of AS documents seem to come out in the fall.

Once you have the schematics, it's off to find the location of this and that connector. If you pull your AC intakes to clean them, you will find various interesting bundles of wire ....

Bob

[Airhead2018]

After all the troubleshooting and wire chasing I finally called Firefly Integrations (574) 825-4600. It seems my brand new 2018 Classic has outdated software. They will send me a new monitor and help me with a step-by-step procedure to upgrade this system when we get back home. They also told me you can go through Airstream if you like but most people prefer to install themselves. I figure it should have never left the lot with outdated software and or equipment so I will be doing this one myself (with there help). Hope this helps!

[montanachick]

Good morning, Montanachick here. We own a 2018 Classic and have been having trouble with the propane read on the panel.

We just got off the phone with Jerry at Firefly. The panel shows the tank as disc/empty when in fact the tank is full. We checked to make sure the tank was grounded. However, the resistance on the tank read 92, which gave us the Disc reading. It needs to read 90 or below for a full tank on the panel. To get a resistance reading take the 2 wires coming off the gauge on the tank and put the multimeter on the two wires to get the reading.

After talking to Jerry, the first thing he told us was that he gets called weekly for the same issue, here's what he told us;

It's all about how full your tank is. If it's overfilled (91% or above) it will show Disc under the tank and empty on the gauge even though it's full. Here's the breakdown Jerry gave us...

0-25% will show low under the icon tank level
25-75% will show an accurate read
75-90% will show full

Above 90% it will show disc and the icon on the panel will show no gas in the tank.

Hope this helps as it was driving us crazy. Now we know that when the tank runs below 91% the tank on the panel will show full again. It's done it before but we didn't know what was happening, why it would show Disc and then suddenly show full. It was because the tank level dropped to 90%.

[mikeinca]

Originally Posted by montanachick

Good morning, Montanachick here. We own a 2018 Classic and have been having trouble with the propane read on the panel.

We just got off the phone with Jerry at Firefly. The panel shows the tank as disc/empty when in fact the tank is full. We checked to make sure the tank was grounded. However, the resistance on the tank read 92, which gave us the Disc reading. It needs to read 90 or below for a full tank on the panel. To get a resistance reading take the 2 wires coming off the gauge on the tank and put the multimeter on the two wires to get the reading.

After talking to Jerry, the first thing he told us was that he gets called weekly for the same issue, here's what he told us;

It's all about how full your tank is. If it's overfilled (91% or above) it will show Disc under the tank and empty on the gauge even though it's full. Here's the breakdown Jerry gave us...

0-25% will show low under the icon tank level
25-75% will show an accurate read
75-90% will show full

Above 90% it will show disc and the icon on the panel will show no gas in the tank.

Hope this helps as it was driving us crazy. Now we know that when the tank runs below 91% the tank on the panel will show full again. It's done it before but we didn't know what was happening, why it would show Disc and then suddenly show full. It was because the tank level dropped to 90%.

Interesting. FWIW, we also have a 2018 30' Classic. As it sits right now both propane tanks are full and the readout on the Firefly for each tank is 98%.

The only issue we've had is some corrosion on the lead to one of the tanks which caused it to read Disc and 0%. I cleaned the offending connection and treated all of the connectors with dielectric grease. No further problems.

I've never experienced the issue that Jerry described to you when the tanks were 90%+ full.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

In the years we've been out and about with our Firefly based system, I've never seen the issue you describe. I run with one propane tank full and shut off until the other gets close to empty. The result is - I just about always have a full tank sitting there. I also have not seen the odd non-linear readings. As far as I can tell it reports propane linearly over the entire scale.

The fresh water, black and gray tanks *do* seem to work the way Jerry described. Their readouts are very nonlinear at the ends. You can not trust them either for "full" or for "empty". Each time my assistant is calling out readings at the dump station, an interesting debate happens as a result ....

The problem we've seen with the propane is simply the contact between the tank and the trailer. Since I started cranking the lockdown a bit tighter that's gone away. It shows up as a big X through the tank symbol. We had that X pop up a lot early on, it may also be that the tank needs to chew through the paint on the frame .....

Indeed you *can* get an X through a water tank symbol when the system first boots. It goes away quickly enough that you really need to be watching to catch it. It never comes back ....

Bob

[rmkrum]

A quick way to eliminate the grounding problem is to add a ground wire to each sensor with a crimped on ring terminal under the mounting screw on the sensor, and run both it and the existing wire through a two pin connector of your choice.

Then tie the ground wire on the other side of the connector to a bolted down ground on the A-frame. That buys you a good ground and easy disconnect. It’s how it should have been done from the get go at the factory. (Insert the usual Overkill Engineering mumbling here).

Trying to depend on an iffy ground connection through the rusty tank bottom and an over tightened tank retainer is just bad practice.

If I ever get wired tank readouts I would need to do this because my tanks have rubber rings snapped on the very bottom to help keep them from rusting. I’m successfully using the Mopeka wireless propane level sensors at the moment.

[Tobi Gilbert]

This does not apply to every AS or year model. Talked to Jerry too!! We have an AS Interstate Class B. After a generator replacement the Firefly no longer reads the LPG levels. We have a 1.5 version of the Firefly, and Jerry said your fix does not apply! We are still trying to find someone who understands it all well enough to fix it. Even the local Airstream dealer mechanic cannot determine the cause. I did learn how to change the generator hours on the Firefly - so simple. Neither the generator people or local airstream knew that. Just press and hold for more than 10 seconds and a menu pops up. Simple.

[Airhead2018]

Never followed up on our tank issue, sorry. After tracing where all the wires go (using schematic in Airstream manual) I found faulty crimped connections under the front couch. This is not the first time I have found bad wiring technics in our unit. All seems to be good now.