Prospective Full-Timer - Warranty Woes

[Quest4info]

Hi Folks,

My wife and I are considering selling our home and full-timing for a year or two. We spent a few hours at the AS dealership near us over the weekend. We absolutely loved the Classic 30 and Classic 33. I think we are both leaning towards the 33 at this point. It felt very much like a small luxury apartment as opposed to a luxury camper, if that makes sense. For those of you who haven't seen a 2022 Classic 33, it has a MUCH more open feel about it than recent model years. AS did away with the window boxes on the inside, giving the appearance of having much more space. The dealership was fortunate to have both a 22 and 21 on their lot. I'm not going to lie....the sticker price on these rigs is insane as most of you know. With that in mind, I did some research on the AS warranty. I was shocked when I read the fine print of what is NOT covered:

Any travel trailer used other than for temporary recreation purposes, including, but not limited to, use of the travel trailer for residential, rental, business and commercial purpose or any travel trailer purchased by, registered by, or titled in the name of a business association (such as any LLC, corporation, or partnership). If the travel trailer owner or user files a tax form claiming a business or commercial tax benefit or income related to the travel trailer, it shall be irrefutable that the travel trailer has been used for rental, commercial or business purposes.

So, it would appear that AS can deny warranty claims for folks that live full time in their rigs or use their rigs for purposes other than temporary recreation. That seems absolutely nuts to me! Especially given the marketing materials related to the classic line:

Created for longer trips or full-time living, the Classic Travel Trailer offers every comfort of home you want – plus plenty of amenities you didn’t even know you needed. Hit the road knowing you’ll start and end each day surrounded in features that transform a road trip into a true getaway.

Does this strike anyone else as being misleading? Why advertise that their trailers are designed for longer trips or full-time living, but then say such usage voids the warranty?

Lastly - I can understand why AS won't honor warranty work when a camper is owned and rented out by a company. That makes sense to me. But why shaft folks that register their AS via an LLC? What about those of us who legitimately use their trailer for business purposes? My wife and I have a LLC, that we were planning to use to purchase the AS but obviously our plans will have to be modified if AS will tell us to pound sand should we run into legitimate warranty issues.

I asked my sales rep at AS about this and he didn't have a clear answer for me. He basically said it really depends on the AS dealership. He actually lives Full-time in his AS so he must be pretty confident that he'll be taken care of.

That said, I'm not sure I want to risk it when the trailer in question is nearing the 200k mark. Anyway, I'm sorry that my first post is a bit of a downer, but I'd love to hear y'alls opinions.

[Ray Eklund]

Buy what you want when it is available.

Your home may sell quickly, or not.

Take your 'new Warranty Airstream' on a four week vacation. RV Park checking AC's and Electrical Appliances. Boondock at a Truck Stop and test the Propane appliances.

Go to a Blue Beacon Car Wash... No Brush, No Brightner for less than $50 to check for LEAKING, windows, roof, vents, etc.

******

I would NOT warranty a Full Time Living Trailer if I were a dealer or JCenter. First thing that goes bad is the Toilet getting plugged up and frustration.

******

I advise, when dealing on one or the other... have it watered up, everything working and you check it out on the lot before it is yours. Often the Dealer will not, as I hear that they do not get Warranty Payment from Airstream Jackson Center. If stuff does not work... NEXT trailer, please.

We have had a 25 foot and a 27 foot with minimal issues that affected our time on the road. Popped rivets are like getting stones in the Michelin tire tread.

Find someone that has experience with an Airstream to help you, while at the dealership. The trailer has to be 100% functioning, the day you sign the contract. Water, Electricity, Solar, Brakes, Lighting... everything.

If that is not an option... you are on the hook forever after.
******

If this is too much to ask... You will get to figure it out when you own it... and if you have big problems... then you will have to pay the Piper.

[CMHM]

I did a full year and full time in a brand new Globetrotter in 2021. After 6 weeks my warranty / fault list contained over 40 items, some quite severe issues. Airstream invited me to JC and took care of it.

The issue with full-time living is that you will find out about every single issue much sooner. The people who camp twice a year in it wouldn’t even care about things that will annoy you pretty soon.

In regards to the terms: never mention you do full-time living, especially to your insurance. Nobody counts how many days you spend in it, so don’t go bragging about your house sale.

Last word of advice: book an appointment now with JC and expect to be in Ohio for at least 4 weeks when you drop it off.

[pcskier]

What they don't know won't hurt them.

[wv2017]

Originally Posted by CMHM

I did a full year and full time in a brand new Globetrotter in 2021. After 6 weeks my warranty / fault list contained over 40 items, some quite severe issues. Airstream invited me to JC and took care of it.

The issue with full-time living is that you will find out about every single issue much sooner. The people who camp twice a year in it wouldn’t even care about things that will annoy you pretty soon.

In regards to the terms: never mention you do full-time living, especially to your insurance. Nobody counts how many days you spend in it, so don’t go bragging about your house sale.

Last word of advice: book an appointment now with JC and expect to be in Ohio for at least 4 weeks when you drop it off.

Originally Posted by pcskier

What they don't know won't hurt them.

Agree with both the comments above. Been to Jackson Center three times with our Classic 33, and the full-time question has never even come up.

They couldn't tell (or care) if we were full-time, or on our way back home from 5 months up in Canada.....
.

[wv2017]

Originally Posted by Quest4info

Hi Folks,

My wife and I are considering selling our home and full-timing for a year or two. We spent a few hours at the AS dealership near us over the weekend. We absolutely loved the Classic 30 and Classic 33. I think we are both leaning towards the 33 at this point. It felt very much like a small luxury apartment as opposed to a luxury camper, if that makes sense. For those of you who haven't seen a 2022 Classic 33, it has a MUCH more open feel about it than recent model years. AS did away with the window boxes on the inside, giving the appearance of having much more space. The dealership was fortunate to have both a 22 and 21 on their lot. I'm not going to lie....the sticker price on these rigs is insane as most of you know.

.....oh, and having owned a 33 Classic Twin ourselves for a couple years, I would look hard at the Classic 30, one more time before you 'pull-the trigger'.

After buying & traveling in the 33 for several months, we really regretted not buying the 30 Classic Twin instead..... and we almost traded for one the following year.

The location of the couch in the Classic 30 provided way more living space for a dog bed or a dog kennel (or adventure gear, a shoe rack, etc), behind the dining booth & in front of the couch. Plus the comfort and operation of the couch in the 30 is superior to the 33 couch.

And the large outside storage compartment was in a much better location to access in the 30, versus the 33.

But in the end, the biggest regret for us was this:
The Classic 33 bathroom is definitely roomy & LUXURIOUS, with a Shower to die for, and that's what "wowed us" initially..... BUT in Hindsight, only spending 10-20% of our time in the Bathroom, the loss of having Panoramic windows on both ends of the trailer (for the living area as well) definitely dimmed our spirits over time when the 'million dollar Views' were better in our Bedroom than in our Living Room / Kitchen.

Just some perspective & personal opinion from us.....

Either way, good luck with your decision, cause frankly, you really can't go wrong with either one. Enjoy !
.

[pcskier]

Originally Posted by wv2017

BUT in Hindsight, only spending 10-20% of our time in the Bathroom

I would guess even less time...10-20% would be 1.6 to 3.2 hours a day in the bathroom out of the 18 waking hours in a typical day

I do agree though, I switched from a 23FB that had a great bathroom across the back, to a 23CB with a tighter bathroom because of the greater living space, including a comfortable lounge, and the ability to put a dog bed under the dinette (the 23FB has a cramped dinette with a center telescoping leg, so that was out as a spot...for Spot , and no lounge.)

I realized that the amount of time in the bathroom was minimal.

[SpikePoet]

It seems that the issue isn't so much with the full-timing aspect but rather the fact that you want to title the AS to an LLC. The reason(s) are not obvious to me but that's irrelevant to your decision. My guess is that this warranty language is unchanged from pre-pandemic years. AS/Thor did not anticipate that so many purchasers would not be going back to work in the office but instead would henceforth be working from home. I bet they will redo the language in the not too distant future to recognize this newly expanded market segment. But that may only address the full-timing part of the question. Is it possible for you to title traditionally and then transfer to the LLC after the warranty has run out or would that negate your perceived benefit? I'm assuming that you have also discussed the aspect with your insurance company and they won't be charging you a higher premium when title to an LLC. Is there an issue with any contemplated financing under an LLC title? Sorry more questions than answers.
Spike

[cbburke]

If Airstream was concerned about long term use or using it for business why would they build a floor plan with a permanent office?

[wv2017]

Originally Posted by wv2017

BUT in Hindsight, only spending 10-20% of our time in the Bathroom

Originally Posted by pcskier

I would guess even less time...10-20% would be 1.6 to 3.2 hours a day in the bathroom out of the 18 waking hours in a typical day

I do agree though, I switched from a 23FB that had a great bathroom across the back, to a 23CB with a tighter bathroom because of the greater living space, including a comfortable lounge, and the ability to put a dog bed under the dinette (the 23FB has a cramped dinette with a center telescoping leg, so that was out as a spot...for Spot , and no lounge.)

I realized that the amount of time in the bathroom was minimal.

..... You're right !

.....and as you can see, I pulled those numbers out of my butt (during part of my 1.6 hours spent sitting in there yesterday), without actually crunching the numbers 'in my swag' at an estimate..... with some true, stubby-pencil 'beer math'.

Cheers!
.

[Quest4info]

Originally Posted by SpikePoet

It seems that the issue isn't so much with the full-timing aspect but rather the fact that you want to title the AS to an LLC. The reason(s) are not obvious to me but that's irrelevant to your decision. My guess is that this warranty language is unchanged from pre-pandemic years. AS/Thor did not anticipate that so many purchasers would not be going back to work in the office but instead would henceforth be working from home. I bet they will redo the language in the not too distant future to recognize this newly expanded market segment. But that may only address the full-timing part of the question. Is it possible for you to title traditionally and then transfer to the LLC after the warranty has run out or would that negate your perceived benefit? I'm assuming that you have also discussed the aspect with your insurance company and they won't be charging you a higher premium when title to an LLC. Is there an issue with any contemplated financing under an LLC title? Sorry more questions than answers.
Spike

I don't have answer for you regarding insuring a TT registered to a LLC. Not sure about the financing issue but we will be purchasing the trailer outright, so not an issue for us. The main benefit for purchasing the trailer via an LLC, is the legal tax loophole that exists for trailers purchased in certain states that don't charge sales tax. One can register a LLC in another state without having to establish residency. Huge savings upfront obviously. Some people just make up an LLC specifically for the purpose of avoiding sales tax. In our case, our LLC is a legitimate business that is already registered in a state that doesn't charge sales tax for Travel Trailers. If the warranty get's shafted though, I'll not go this route.

[richard5933]

Lots of products have statements in their warranty about "not for commercial use," so I don't see anything wrong with Airstream drawing the line there.

But, the full time issue really just seems a recognition that the trailers are not intended to last as long when subjected to constant use. I wonder how they define full time.

[fastrob]

It is all on the level.
Plans are fine until the first slap in the head.
Are you sure you want to full time?
Have you camped out with your better half a lot?
Moving that big puppy around is a big deal...

[kscherzi]

Hopefully you're handy with tools because unless your trailer problem is something major it'll save a lot of headaches getting appointments, living with the problem for months, driving hundreds of miles out of your way, risking sloppy work, by fixing the all the little problems yourself.

[The Twinkie]

Gosh don't spend that kind of money. Once you get used to it (about 1 month) you will wish you had bought a good used one.
And don't go over 28 ft because you will regret not being able to get into many, many campsites.
Use a 3/4 ton pickup with tow package.
JMI

[tallytwo1994]

Travel trailers and Park Models are not built to the same Federal HUD safety standards, for full time living, as a manufactured home. Somewhere in the RV or Park model trailer there is suppose to be a noticed disclosing that it hasn’t been built to the same code as a permanent residence or for full time living (with additional notice requirements for Park models). In other words the RV industry has lobbied for and been exempted, by Congress, from HUD building requirements.

Not providing a warranty for a legitimate business use it understandable.

https://www.rvia.org/news-insights/t...t-new-hud-rule

Carol