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10-30-2013, 02:25 PM
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#21
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2 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Spokane
, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 31
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Thank you. We were hoping to be able to split the trailer into two work rooms. One for me, and one for my husband. We live outside the city in a more rural community but I will check on the CC&R's in our area to see what I can find. We should be getting some inheritance money soon and we were considering using that to purchase a piece of land a little more in the woods where people can't see our trailer from the road. This will keep us a little more off the radar. The reason we really need a set place is because we have a young, hyper golden retriever who really needs the place to run. Yes, I know. Being in our situation we should not have taken him in. But he's in a WAY better situation now than the place we took him from so we're keeping him.
We considered a converted old school bus as well. That would especially allow more room but I heard they aren't as reliable and a lot more difficult to heat.
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10-30-2013, 02:27 PM
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#22
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Wise Elder
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river
, Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreaminWA
We will have the natures head composting toilet which does not require the black water tank.
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What about grey water?
Quote:
We will have solar panels but only for lights in the house. (Eventually we will upgrade.) We are gone 12 hours a day so anything that needs charging can be done in the car/work. The reason we picked an airstream is because you cannot have a fireplace in the park models. We are going to get the Little Cod fireplace. My mother has it and says it keeps the place extremely warm. It heats up to 500sq ft and a 31ft airstream is under 300. Eventually we will be using the airstream to travel but we have to wait until my husband is done with school The only times we'll need an immense amount of heat is weekends and night time when we'll be sleeping. My husband is like a furnace and we already live without much heat. We try to keep our bills as low as possible so we just bundle up.
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Keep in mind that the Little Cod will generally not hold a fire overnight. It uses small stovewood and has to be refuelled every hour or two.
__________________
To learn to see below the surface, you must adjust your altitude
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10-30-2013, 02:28 PM
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#23
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2 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Spokane
, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 31
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Horse trailers with living areas up here cost in the thousands. If I was down south they're pretty reasonable because there's more of them but they're a rare commodity up here. We did peruse craigslist and found some smaller nice 2-horse trailers for around 500 But we have to make sure to insulate and heat. We did find more horse trailers than any other so your idea is pretty spot on Thank you!
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10-30-2013, 02:29 PM
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#24
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2 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Spokane
, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS
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Sometimes they have insulated ones too! Thanks for the idea!! It might take a little bit but I will keep my eye out!
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10-30-2013, 02:34 PM
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#25
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Wise Elder
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river
, Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreaminWA
We have an energy efficient ceramic heater that turns on only when the degrees drop a certain amount but I'm sure that won't work well enough to keep the pipes from freezing.
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They aren't any more efficient than anything else. THat's all marketing hype. They will keep your trailer around 15 degrees warmer than the outside temp, if you run them on high.
Quote:
We may try and go with a gas powered furnace?
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If you're thinking of an RV furnace, like the ones from Atwood and Suburban, that would be a wise move.
Quote:
What is the best and most efficient way to minimally heat the trailer while gone? We can't afford to get too high of wattage on solar power until we've saved some money just living in the Airstream.
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You would need $10,000 of panels and $10,000 of batteries to have a chance of heating an Airstream on a cold winter night with PV panels.
Propane is the most practical fuel, though wood will work as long as you're there to tend the fire
Quote:
The Natures Head toilet we picked because it does get fantastic reviews from full timers and isn't INSANELY expensive. Also can be used for compost. (Hubby isn't too enthused with using our waste for fertilizer but necessity is the mother of invention ^_^)
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I'm skeptical of these. Be sure you talk to people who are using them daily under similar weather conditions before you purchase.
Quote:
It'll be a pain, but we're giving up our microwave, one, because they put toxins into your food
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Hmm.
__________________
To learn to see below the surface, you must adjust your altitude
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10-30-2013, 02:36 PM
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#26
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2 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Spokane
, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer
In general, full-timing is not a less expensive alternative to renting, because of the costs of maintaining and fueling a tow vehicle.
As others said, what about zoning?
What about sewer?
The possibility of theft should be a concern. Get insurance.
Fulltiming is a lifestyle that requires selling or giving away items that are not portable or that you do not use.
Cargo trailer, as others have suggested. Be aware, though, that even if rain-tight, high humidity is a problem in these and will make tools rust over a period of months or years.
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We won't be moving around too much for about 3 or 4 years. I'll look up the zoning but for the particular place we'll be keeping the trailer we shouldn't have to worry.
There is no need for sewer due to the composting toilet. The half acre we're renting is relatively private and the neighbors (not the people we're renting from.) are very good friends. I recently helped facilitate her through breast cancer and she is always home watching out for us. She will have a birds eye view of our trailer from her porch.
We do have insurance. We are getting rid of most everything we have. The only things we are keeping are the bare essentials and the things we have inherited. We are young and will one day build a cabin to keep these things.
Bill mentioned that concern in a previous post and mentioned insulating the trailer and putting a small heater in it to cut down on humidity. We're also considering a dehumidifier.
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10-30-2013, 02:38 PM
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#27
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Wise Elder
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river
, Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreaminWA
Thank you. We were hoping to be able to split the trailer into two work rooms. One for me, and one for my husband. We live outside the city in a more rural community but I will check on the CC&R's in our area to see what I can find. We should be getting some inheritance money soon and we were considering using that to purchase a piece of land a little more in the woods where people can't see our trailer from the road. This will keep us a little more off the radar. The reason we really need a set place is because we have a young, hyper golden retriever who really needs the place to run. Yes, I know. Being in our situation we should not have taken him in. But he's in a WAY better situation now than the place we took him from so we're keeping him.
We considered a converted old school bus as well. That would especially allow more room but I heard they aren't as reliable and a lot more difficult to heat.
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Many markers here for you sinking cash into a situation you can't get it back of if it doesn't work out.
I would suggest renting an RV for a week or two and living in that before committing a great deal of money (purchasing land, fixing trailers, etc)
That is the best way to find out whether the lifestyle meets your goals.
__________________
To learn to see below the surface, you must adjust your altitude
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10-30-2013, 02:39 PM
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#28
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2 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Spokane
, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer
What about grey water?
Keep in mind that the Little Cod will generally not hold a fire overnight. It uses small stovewood and has to be refuelled every hour or two.
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We have thought about the fireplace and it is a concern. I wish we could get a bigger one but its not a wise idea as far as space saving is concerned. We have some very warm blankets and bundle up during the night. Should it get too cold we'll just do what every pioneer did. Either tough it out or get up and throw some more wood in the fire. We didn't pick fulltiming as living because it was a glamorous lifestyle but because its a fulfilling one :P
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10-30-2013, 02:50 PM
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#29
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Rivet Master
1984 34' International
Toronto
, Ontario
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,499
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I think you're underestimating your power needs. Even a small ceramic heater will not run of solar panels, unless you're spending serious money on both panels and batteries - especially in winter. You're talking thousands, easily.
If you want to heat your water supply, and you must to stop it from freezing, the same apples. The furnace fan, although it uses propane to heat, will run a fully charged battery dry in a day or two at the most.
Your propane fridge needs power, your composting toilet needs power, your water pump needs power, your lights need power. You're talking about a dehumidifier and an electric fridge. You cannot power these with a 400 watt panel on a trailer roof.
Unless you're prepared to live very primitively indeed, and put up with considerable hardship, you do need a steady source of electricity.
If you're ok with carrying water into the trailer from a heated source, then you might be ok, but that's a lot of work.
My friends with the property in Northern Ontario bring water in the winter and store it inside their trailer when they visit. They take sponge baths in a bucket, and use an outhouse. All water for washing dishes etc gets heated on the stove, then discarded outside. It's ok for a long weekend, but I am not sure I'd like to live like that.
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10-30-2013, 02:51 PM
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#30
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2 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Spokane
, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer
They aren't any more efficient than anything else. THat's all marketing hype. They will keep your trailer around 15 degrees warmer than the outside temp, if you run them on high.
If you're thinking of an RV furnace, like the ones from Atwood and Suburban, that would be a wise move.
You would need $10,000 of panels and $10,000 of batteries to have a chance of heating an Airstream on a cold winter night with PV panels.
Propane is the most practical fuel, though wood will work as long as you're there to tend the fire
I'm skeptical of these. Be sure you talk to people who are using them daily under similar weather conditions before you purchase.
Hmm.
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Thanks for the names on the RV furnaces. I will look into them.
With the wood, I will eventually move my business to work from home. So EVENTUALLY that's the plan. But until then I do need another form of heating. Propane sounds like the way to go. I'm not investing that much in solar panels because eventually we'll be moving to warmer, sunnier climates.
I have read extensive reviews and read blogs and posts from full timers regarding the Natures Head composting toilet. Everyone says its the best. It separates the liquids from the solids, with the help of peat moss or coconut coir, reduces the rv bathroom smell and starts composting the solids into soil. The only real con is the maintenance. The icky stuff just doesn't disappear down the drain. You have to dump the liquids into some sort of fashioned hole and empty the solids at least every 2 weeks, rain or snow. But again, full timing isn't glamorous.
I should clarify. It doesn't dump toxins. Rather the microwave kind of zaps nutrients from your food. Either way if you're committed enough and contrary to popular belief, a microwave is not needed to cook. And that's really the main deciding factor in ridding myself of a microwave. It frees up space and I don't NEED it.
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10-30-2013, 02:52 PM
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#31
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Wise Elder
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river
, Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,169
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You're the one who has to live with your choices, so I guess I won't be critical.
I have at various times spent the night in unheated tents and buildings in temperatures down below zero. I have some friends who sleep outside all winter in rural Minnesota because they have a thing about radon. Blankets are good down to around 40 degrees alone, 30 with a lover, anything beyond that and you pretty much have to have either electric blankets or some really good sleeping bags.
Another fact to consider is that the pioneers of whom you speak did little during the winter aside from the basic tasks of staying alive in the cold.
It is not a lifestyle that works well if you have an 8-5 job or similar commitments requiring comparable amounts of time.
You are correct that nothing larger than the Little Cod will fit
__________________
To learn to see below the surface, you must adjust your altitude
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10-30-2013, 02:55 PM
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#32
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Wise Elder
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river
, Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreaminWA
I should clarify. It doesn't dump toxins. Rather the microwave kind of zaps nutrients from your food. Either way if you're committed enough and contrary to popular belief, a microwave is not needed to cook. And that's really the main deciding factor in ridding myself of a microwave. It frees up space and I don't NEED it.
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Well, you're preaching to teh choir on that. I've only had one for four years.
Space wise consider the fact that the inside of the microwave can be used for storage. In my Airstream we travel with the coffee thermos and a couple of other bulky items in there.
__________________
To learn to see below the surface, you must adjust your altitude
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10-30-2013, 02:57 PM
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#33
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2 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Spokane
, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer
Many markers here for you sinking cash into a situation you can't get it back of if it doesn't work out.
I would suggest renting an RV for a week or two and living in that before committing a great deal of money (purchasing land, fixing trailers, etc)
That is the best way to find out whether the lifestyle meets your goals.
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My husband lived in an RV for 2 years and I grew up with 6 siblings and two parents in 2 small RV's. We'll be buying land any way you look at it. But if the renting situation works out we won't need to buy land for several years. The only difference between the way we grew up and us is we won't always be connected to electricity, hence the solar panels. We are masters of finding free/cheap materials on CL and trading our skills for things we need.
We just got some free plywood for helping a guy clean out his garage. There's always way to do things cheaply if you set your mind to it. I am willing to fork out the money on the fireplace and toilet simply because they will make life easier and less spendier down the road.
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10-30-2013, 03:01 PM
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#34
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Rivet Master
1984 34' International
Toronto
, Ontario
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreaminWA
You have to dump the liquids into some sort of fashioned hole and empty the solids at least every 2 weeks, rain or snow. But again, full timing isn't glamorous.
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The Nature's Head is good for between 80 and 100 uses. Depending on the health o your digestive system, that should give you about a month of use between two people.
I know people who use it on boats, they swear by it.
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10-30-2013, 03:02 PM
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#35
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Wise Elder
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river
, Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreasduess
I think you're underestimating your power needs. Even a small ceramic heater will not run of solar panels, unless you're spending serious money on both panels and batteries - especially in winter. You're talking thousands, easily.
If you want to heat your water supply, and you must to stop it from freezing, the same apples. The furnace fan, although it uses propane to heat, will run a fully charged battery dry in a day or two at the most.
Your propane fridge needs power, your composting toilet needs power, your water pump needs power, your lights need power.
Unless you're prepared to live very primitively indeed, and put up with considerable hardship, you do need a steady source of electricity.
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+1
Rule of thumb is that a basic solar installation for an Airstream should be around 400 watts of panels. Full timing in the winter would require several times that many.
Quote:
If you're ok with carrying water into the trailer from a heated source, then you might be ok, but that's a lot of work.
My friends with the property in Northern Ontario bring water in the winter and store it inside their trailer when they visit. They take sponge baths in a bucket, and use an outhouse. All water for washing dishes etc gets heated on the stove, then discarded outside. It's ok for a long weekend, but I am not sure I'd like to live like that.
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I've lived that way and while yes you can do it there is a lot to be said for drains.
Another fact to consider is that the "cabin modality" of carrying water in buckets and heating it on the stove requires a good deal more counter and stove space than an Airstream has to offer. In my experience, having lived/cooked in that environment quite a good deal, even for two people you at least need an apartment-sized 4-burner stove and room for two 5-gallon buckets on the counter and, if you're collecting greywater, one under teh sink.
The RV stoves are barely big enough for a spaghetti pot let alone something big enough for bath water
__________________
To learn to see below the surface, you must adjust your altitude
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10-30-2013, 03:05 PM
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#36
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2 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Spokane
, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreasduess
I think you're underestimating your power needs. Even a small ceramic heater will not run of solar panels, unless you're spending serious money on both panels and batteries - especially in winter. You're talking thousands, easily.
If you want to heat your water supply, and you must to stop it from freezing, the same apples. The furnace fan, although it uses propane to heat, will run a fully charged battery dry in a day or two at the most.
Your propane fridge needs power, your composting toilet needs power, your water pump needs power, your lights need power. You're talking about a dehumidifier and an electric fridge. You cannot power these with a 400 watt panel on a trailer roof.
Unless you're prepared to live very primitively indeed, and put up with considerable hardship, you do need a steady source of electricity.
If you're ok with carrying water into the trailer from a heated source, then you might be ok, but that's a lot of work.
My friends with the property in Northern Ontario bring water in the winter and store it inside their trailer when they visit. They take sponge baths in a bucket, and use an outhouse. All water for washing dishes etc gets heated on the stove, then discarded outside. It's ok for a long weekend, but I am not sure I'd like to live like that.
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All the reasons why we don't have an airstream yet. There's still a lot we need to figure out. I believe we'll use propane for the furnace and heat the airstream with a fireplace at night. In regards the electricity, we will start off with 120 watt solar panel, 4 6v batteries. We will build as we go. the ceramic heater is an idea I'm playing around but I know its not a full term viable solution. We'll have a generator that hopefully we'll never have to use but it will be there just in case. Its going to take a lot of planning and preparation and will be difficult handle during winter but we are looking at the end result. You live like no one else so you can LIVE like no one else.
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10-30-2013, 03:08 PM
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#37
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2 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Spokane
, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreasduess
I think you're underestimating your power needs. Even a small ceramic heater will not run of solar panels, unless you're spending serious money on both panels and batteries - especially in winter. You're talking thousands, easily.
If you want to heat your water supply, and you must to stop it from freezing, the same apples. The furnace fan, although it uses propane to heat, will run a fully charged battery dry in a day or two at the most.
Your propane fridge needs power, your composting toilet needs power, your water pump needs power, your lights need power. You're talking about a dehumidifier and an electric fridge. You cannot power these with a 400 watt panel on a trailer roof.
Unless you're prepared to live very primitively indeed, and put up with considerable hardship, you do need a steady source of electricity.
If you're ok with carrying water into the trailer from a heated source, then you might be ok, but that's a lot of work.
My friends with the property in Northern Ontario bring water in the winter and store it inside their trailer when they visit. They take sponge baths in a bucket, and use an outhouse. All water for washing dishes etc gets heated on the stove, then discarded outside. It's ok for a long weekend, but I am not sure I'd like to live like that.
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The composting toilet does not need power unless you run the fan. You agitate the compost manually. The water pump will need power, yes. I considered an electric fridge but you are correct in saying I absolutely will not be able to run everything on electric power. Especially not an electric fridge.
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10-30-2013, 03:17 PM
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#38
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2 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Spokane
, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer
You're the one who has to live with your choices, so I guess I won't be critical.
I have at various times spent the night in unheated tents and buildings in temperatures down below zero. I have some friends who sleep outside all winter in rural Minnesota because they have a thing about radon. Blankets are good down to around 40 degrees alone, 30 with a lover, anything beyond that and you pretty much have to have either electric blankets or some really good sleeping bags.
Another fact to consider is that the pioneers of whom you speak did little during the winter aside from the basic tasks of staying alive in the cold.
It is not a lifestyle that works well if you have an 8-5 job or similar commitments requiring comparable amounts of time.
You are correct that nothing larger than the Little Cod will fit
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I work for a real estate agent. I'll be home a lot more in the winter to prepare for those tasks.
I fully appreciate all the things you are bringing to light and will consider all of the problems I may face before investing in an airstream.
You did mention A LOT of things I didn't think about. But again necessity is the mother of invention.
And I have a feeling I won't be sleeping through cold nights without putting wood on the fire at least once :P
We also have some sleeping bags that are good to below 0 weather. And thankfully it doesn't get that cold here.
We aren't set to buy an airstream right away. But that's why I'm asking now so that I have time to prepare. And from what you've told me, I have A LOT to prepare for. But I'm convinced this will be the best way to live the life that we want to. And we ever want to move the bonus is we can take our home with us.
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10-30-2013, 03:18 PM
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#39
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2 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Spokane
, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer
Well, you're preaching to teh choir on that. I've only had one for four years.
Space wise consider the fact that the inside of the microwave can be used for storage. In my Airstream we travel with the coffee thermos and a couple of other bulky items in there.
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I'll think about that if our airstream comes with a microwave. Its a good idea. Otherwise we'll fashion some storage space in the empty area for other things.
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10-30-2013, 03:20 PM
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#40
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2 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Spokane
, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreasduess
The Nature's Head is good for between 80 and 100 uses. Depending on the health o your digestive system, that should give you about a month of use between two people.
I know people who use it on boats, they swear by it.
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Really? And especially because we mostly use the john at our places of employment so we should have some time and by then it won't be quite as messy of a task. That makes that concern less daunting
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