Full-timing in a green Airstream....

[FLYNCLD]

I wanted to comment on this post as it seems a few of the rather negative comments may have brought it to a screeching halt. I hope Cece was not discouraged by the response.

Having been on the road full-time for over a year and a half in our "Greenstream", I think we can speak from experience on some of these ideas and issues. We incorporated and/or looked at many of the same systems and features that they are talking about. Some of them we abandoned as not practical or even possible, some of them were too expensive, and some of them simply need some more research or new technology. Here is some of what we learned along the way.

The composting toilet that we use "Natures Head", unlike the SunMar unit that they are considering uses virtually no energy other than a tiny little fan that runs off our 12V. Even under full-time use, it has only needed to be emptied 3-4 times per year (other than urine that we simply put in the toilet). We do not have a black tank, and RoadKingMoe is incorrect in thinking that you need one. Properly maintained, the toilet simply produces rich dark compost and the ways we have disposed of it are discussed in our post http://www.airforums.com/forums/f444...let-65154.html It is not sewage, but we are very sensitive about how and where we dispose of it.

As for recycling gray water, I hope that they will find an effective way to do this as we were unsuccessful. RO systems, filters, etc. are simply too slow to handle the volume. You would also have to carry around the added weight of all that largely unusable water while it is being filtered. Our solution was to use low-flow faucets and shower heads, and limit our use of water by taking "navy" showers. We have it down to about 5-7 gallons per day and we both shower every day. We empty our gray water at the RV dump stations in the campgrounds at which we stay. Our fresh water and gray water tanks are pretty closely matched so we fill and empty at the same time.

We also considered a rainwater catchment system and decided against it as this water also would need to be filtered or processed before it can be used and once again you are carrying around that extra weight while you attempt to process it. There is lots of road grime that gets on your trailer as drive, just take a look at the water in your bucket when you wash it! Most rainwater systems are used for watering the garden.

WVO was also ruled out for us as it is quite messy to deal with when you are stationary, let alone traveling down the road. I would recommend using bio-diesel whenever possible.

The good news is both our composting toilet and solar system work flawlessly and we do not carry a generator. Recently as we sat through a tropical storm at a friends house, all the houses around us where without power while we sat there warm and dry running our lights and computer, surfing the net, while our refrigerator, stove and water heater ticked right along on the small amount of propane that they consume.

As for whether or not an Airstream can truly be "green", I think the answer is of course not. But we look at the bigger picture. Our little green home on wheels is deluxe living in 150 solar powered square feet to us. We do not have a house and all the energy that it consumes, we only drive on vehicle, we conserve our water, recycle and reuse whenever we can, and that my friends is the best that any of us can do. There is no perfect green lifestyle, but at least we do our best to make a difference. Aluminum IS one of the most energy intensive products on the planet, but the upside is that it is inoxyadable, and properly maintained can last virtually forever. Our 48 year old Airstream is proof of that. We also "recycled" our trailer and gave an old soldier a new lease on life that will hopefully make it last another 48 years or more! I think the point of replacing perfectly good counters, floors, etc. is well taken, however our trailer was pretty well gutted, so it was not an issue.

I hope Cece and her partner will continue to search for exciting new ways to live their dream and share them with those of us here that want to hear them. If they find some ways to do the things we were unable to achieve, I for one will incorporate them!

[Dave Park]

I would happily use captured rainwater by having a potable tank and a non-potable tank for showering/flushing. The elimination of the black tank creates a handy space for this.

I have seen an interesting recirculating shower that uses 1.2 gallons of water and recirculates it, heating it slightly each time, and skimming off any oils on the water. It seems quite workable and you can take long, hot showers - you just need to remember to wash the dirtiest bits last

[RoadKingMoe]

Originally Posted by FLYNCLD

...black tank, RoadKingMoe is incorrect in thinking that you need one.

Hopefully, they read their Sun-Mar instructions instead of your advice.

They are required to have an overflow catch, i.e. a black tank, perhaps not as large as the original, but a black tank nonetheless. This holds the urine and feces that overflows from the Sun-Mar when liquid evaporation can't keep up with the liquid input. To prevent overflow from occurring, they may have to do as you do with your toilet... quite literally, pee in a funnel in a jug and empty it much more often than the toilet.

[FLYNCLD]

Originally Posted by RoadKingMoe

Hopefully, they read their Sun-Mar instructions instead of your advice.

They are required to have an overflow catch, i.e. a black tank, perhaps not as large as the original, but a black tank nonetheless. This holds the urine and feces that overflows from the Sun-Mar when liquid evaporation can't keep up with the liquid input. To prevent overflow from occurring, they may have to do as you do with your toilet... quite literally, pee in a funnel in a jug and empty it much more often than the toilet.

I am not that familiar with the SunMar, so thank you for your advice. I hope they are and will follow the instructions. In the meantime I will pee in my jug!

[Mikell]

Glad to see your post and I'll be following it.

"Going green" is certainly relative to how each person has been living, and where one lives. Fortunately, I'm not in an area that I need to "conserve" water. However, I use a pump sprayer for my showers. Each time using less than a gallon, and most of the time using less than 1/2 gallon. Admittedly, I have very little hair, so it doesn't take much to rinse. I heat water on the stove if I want a warm shower. I suppose that uses less LP than the water heater. For washing dishes, I use a hand pump sprayer with a little hose into a 1 liter Gatorade bottle. Works great, and it's a good forearm workout to boot!

The best water filter I've found is mother nature. I have a well that uses 220V AC, and my Airstream is still hooked to 120V AC. As soon as I can figure out a better way to run the AC, I'll go solar/batteries and all 12V. No doubt, a bank of lead/acid batteries are not "green". For me, it's more about getting off-grid, and doing as much as I can myself. And most importantly, to me off grid means no monthly payments.

Solar power and a hand pump well are my next goals. I just need to figure out the AC. It gets quite hot in SC.

[Dave Park]

Lead acid batteries are quite green. They are made from >98% recycled batteries, take relatively little energy to manufacture and the only frequent environmental hazard is an acid spill - which biodegrades with soil bacteria. Given the job they do, if used with solar panels I think they may provide a net benefit if used so that their life is long.

[greenrvlife]

Good information from everyone... no we aren't discouraged... we just have a certain way of looking at and experiencing life and for us these changes are definitely green and moving us in the right direction. We are down-sizing and once we are on the road we will be using less resources than we are now. I wanted to let everyone know where we are in the process. The AS dealer that was supposed to install the sun-mar toilet didn't. Unfortunately, they didn't know how to do it and strung us along for 6 weeks while they had our trailer. Finally when we said we were coming to pick it up they acknowledged that they didn't put it in and didn't quite know how. So that's fine. We are looking for a local installer with some experience. We spoke with sun-mar directly and while the instructions say to have an overflow tank (just in case the urine overflows and the fan/heater can't keep up with it) they encouraged us to go ahead and remove the black water tank. We haven't done anything yet and will decide soon. We were looking into the Nature's Head toilet but really don't want to have to empty the urine collector once it reaches 2.2 gallons. But it is alot less $$$ to buy it. So we are still deciding. Also for us... our bathroom is super small and the sun-mar is a bit larger... needs 38 inches in length in order to remove the finishing drawer. We will be a bit tight if we put this is in but it could work.

The veggie oil conversion will be installed in October. We have a 150 gallon aluminum tank that will stay in the bed of the truck. We know several people using veggie oil in their diesel truck so we feel pretty comfortable about this process and collecting and filtering oil. More info about this at our site and blog Conserve. Explore. Inspire. - Our Green RV Life - Home. We currently use diesel in the main tank of the truck but once we have the veggie system down and feel comfortable with it we will switch and use bio-diesel in the main tank. We want to employ one system at a time and get all the kinks out before we add another system to the mix.

I really don't see these forums as a tit for tat. I see this as an opportunity for everyone to share their dream and how they are enjoying their AS life... whether they are full-timing or just hitting the road once a year. I for one am super happy everyone is here and is actually interested in what each other is doing.

We are currently taking off the mousefur from the walls. We are using a green stripper called "soy-it" and it is working great. No nasty fumes or toxic chemicals. The aluminum underneath actually looks great. It's not the polished version but it still looks great. We will probably leave some of the bare aluminum and paint over some of it. We will be writing about it all and posting pics at our website.

Everyone have a great day and get out their and play!

Brenda and Cece

[greenrvlife]

We have a 2003 safari with the mouse fur up most of the wall and then vinyl "baby bumper" type material on the ceiling. We have pulled back the carpet from about a 1/3 of the wall so far and it was pretty easy to do. There is adhesive underneath which you can choose to clean off or not. We found a green adhesive remover which isn't toxic and doesn't smell called "soy it" and it works great. Unfortunately, the grade of alum. underneath isn't as nice and a bit dull so I don't think we are going to leave it bare. We are considering putting a no VOC wall covering on it possibly with a membrane between. Since the aluminum bleeds through and there were several spots on the carpet that were darkened by this. We assume the same thing could happen with a wall covering even the thicker kind we are considering. We have also been tossing around what other thicker materials we could put back on the walls to help with insulation and sound. There is an eco friendly material called marmoleum we have also considered. Comes in a million color choices. Anyone have any thoughts or ideas?

[greenrvlife]

Latest update is that we have the veggie oil fuel system installed and it's working flawlessly.

Here are some pics but there are more pics and info. on the biofuel page of our site listed below.

[IMG]file:///Users/cecereinhardt/Library/Caches/TemporaryItems/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG][IMG]file:///Users/cecereinhardt/Library/Caches/TemporaryItems/moz-screenshot-1.png[/IMG]

[DreamStreamr]

Hi you two! When do you hit the road? We're in south Florida for a while and heading back west end of summer sometime. Would love to see your work.

Your vision is cool, your process is methodical, and you are getting inputs from all over the place (not just these forums), so you're going to have your rig set up really nicely.

The best thing you've said so far, I think, is "we have a certain way of looking at things. . ." Way to go! Keep the vision and focus, do it your way.

[slowmover]

So what are the TV axles scaling with 1,400-lbs of fuel on board? The Dodge Towing Guide shows a payload of 1,958-lbs with an empty truck (no driver, diesel or pax).

3-400 pounds of remaining estimated payload makes rather short work of a 3/4T truck, doesn't it (I also have one). Out in Dodge-land no one can find any differences between these and the 1T except the rear spring pack. Depending on how much of the new fuel tank is carried on the FF axle there isn't much capacity left for TW even after the WDH is properly adjusted; or so it appears.

Has the rig been scaled with the fuel tanks full?

I see the blog shows 19 mpg towing. Is that an average, or a high? Over how many miles? Thousands? At 55-mph on the flats? Heckuva number! (is why I ask).

Brought myself up to date on the blog (you've a better truck, now: 4-whl disc brakes alone are a clincher) and will look forward to more.

.

[greenrvlife]

Hey Jim and Debbie - great to hear from you again. Hope your travels are wonderful and I am sure they are in warm and sunny Florida (isn't that the best part of being mobile)? If it's bad weather just pack up and head to the next warm spot... ha... love it! Yes once we are on the road let's meet up. We know for sure we will be in CO for September (putting our rig on display at Denver green homes tour with some friends).

Rednax - hello to you as well. I wasn't sure if your concerns/questions were about our new truck (2006 Dodge) or if you were referring to our old 98 Dodge. Let us know. You brought up some good questions. We originally checked with 3 mechanics to make sure we would be ok pulling the Safari with the extra weight of the fuel tank... we got thumbs up from all 3. Time will tell as we get out on the road this summer.

Take care.

[slowmover]

Rednax - hello to you as well. I wasn't sure if your concerns/questions were about our new truck (2006 Dodge) or if you were referring to our old 98 Dodge. Let us know. You brought up some good questions. We originally checked with 3 mechanics to make sure we would be ok pulling the Safari with the extra weight of the fuel tank... we got thumbs up from all 3. Time will tell as we get out on the road this summer.


The new truck, of course (besides fuel economy). Put it on a certified weight scale as that will tell the tale. Hitch rigging is a matter of respecting the numbers. One may choose to work outside of recommendations, but the only starting place is with axle weights.

See this thread: CAT Scale . . the numbers are in

With the numbers provided by the Dodge Towing Guide (above link) one can sort the rigging for maximum effect. The purpose of a WDH is to maintain the best possible handling/braking. TW is not static.

Expect that the truck "should" carry 75% of TW and the TT axles 25% once distributed. It is the TV Steer Axle weight that one is looking to perfect, overall. Hitched and unhitched it should remain the same; this is the essential goal (without exceeding other limits given).

Sort the Towing Guide for same year payload limits on a 1T, also.

.

[greenrvlife]

Howdy all -

We have made 2 more changes since we first started with the idea of remodelling an Airstream to be more eco and off grid. The first is that we have changed our mind on which composting toilet to use. We looked at Incinolet, Sun-Mar and Nature's head. All 3 are good toilets but we are very cramped on space (we have the back corner bed and back corner bathroom with shower (no tub). We were not able to fit the sun-mar toilet in the bathrrom without remodeling the entire bathroom. The NH is the smallest unit. The price is also a factor with the Nh being substantially less. So we will go with the NH model and see how things go. We will not need the black water tank with this toilet but we decided not to remove the black water tank either... it will just come along for the ride and not be used.

The 2nd decision we have made is to not set up a gray water filtering and reuse system. We have a sponsor for setting up a rainwater system to collect and filter rain from the roof of the Airstream. That will tap into the fresh water tank. We will start with that and see how it goes. We also haven't found anyone that could help us set up a gray water system. We would like to be able to set it up so if anyone knows a way to safely to this shout out.

We are set to hit the road in June! Hope to see you out there.

[Zisi]

excellent! I am currently planning a d/c split charge relay system so I can get off electricity. (currently plugged into a farm house with a 200 ft extension cord, so I have to unplug my mini fridge when i want to use much else.) using 3 12v, recharged from my car. only $75! www.powerstream.com

also planning rain catch with water pump to supply the kitchen sink. we currently use an outhouse, 8 ft deep and i am interested in getting that Nature's Head composting toilet as well. my 33' sovereign has no bathroom or shower, so we use a sun shower.

Long Live the Boondocks!

[greenrvlife]

Zisi -

Nice to hear what you are up to.. great stuff. It's always awesome to hear what other folks are doing.

We are having LED lights installed this week and next week (some on the outside and replacing all the lights on the inside).

[FLYNCLD]

Sounds like things are progressing nicely! How are you planning to filter/purify the rainwater before it goes into your fresh tank?

We have been using the NH for over a year and a half and it continues to operate flawlessly!

FLYNCLD

[greenrvlife]

FLYNCLD - We are happy to hear of your success with the Nature's Head toilet while full-timing. Your success is one of the reasons we decided to make the switch and go with NH instead of some of the other options. Thanks for paving the way! We meet with the rainwater harvest company tomorrow and will get a better idea of what the layout and filtering methods will be. We will report back.

[amuse]

We are getting geared up to go full time in a year - can you send the approx cost per square foot of the greening? I'm cashing in my 401K and want to put it to best adantage.

[greenrvlife]

Hi Amuse -

Congrats on your decision! I don't quite have that info. yet. We are right in the middle of the remodel and we have had some help from sponsors. A lot will depend on what materials you choose to use. Any ideas what you want to go with?