The story of the Airstream 310 Jacket

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by Roquefort

i try again, mabe the oictures are now visible...!!
I am a Computer dinosaur!

When you send them from an Ipad, they sometimes get posted upside down.
Nice wooden floor!!

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by dadstoy

I bet we are all dying to see more pics! At least I am! I wish so bad that I had a 310 with rear bedroom, but "it is what it is"!

You have a beautiful Rig, something to be proud of and I really like the 90 pinstriping.
Inside is all torn up at the moment, but here are some pictures of the exterior. I am so pleased that the bumber and grill are in like new condition, so nice that no one dared to drill holes for the license plate

[cesalie2]

Peter,

Welcome Home!

Daniel

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by cesalie2

Peter,

Welcome Home!

Daniel

Thanks Daniel, Now I joined your "third Time's a charm" club, since this is my third Classic Airstream Motorhome.
Sure does feel like home and I am excited every day, I find some time to work on the 310.
I just successfully wired the selector switch in the rear to use an external 20 amp power source to run the rear A/C, when connected to 50 amp. Still need to add an Breaker box for that 20 amp, since the power will be coming from a 50 amp "dogbone" that splits into 2 30 amp legs.
Now i can have both A/C's running when the generator is running and when I am connected to 50 amp service at the campground.

[PeterH-350LE]

Instead of installing another relay, I decided to go the simple route, which completely isolates the rear A/C (yellow plug) from the rest of the electrical system when plugged in to the additional external 20 amp supply (right socket)

[PeterH-350LE]

In case someone is interested, this is my 50amp power source, since more and more camp grounds do not allow double plugins at their 30 amp stations.

[wxbuoy]

Originally Posted by PeterH-Airstreamer

In case someone is interested, this is my 50amp power source, since more and more camp grounds do not allow double plugins at their 30 amp stations.

Good to know! Was thinking about doing the same to mine. Looks like the 50 amp dogbone will be the way to go.

Glad to have you back!!

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by wxbuoy

Good to know! Was thinking about doing the same to mine. Looks like the 50 amp dogbone will be the way to go.

Glad to have you back!!

Thanks Dave!
Please be careful where you tie into the rear A/C. On my 345, when I tried to tie into the 20 amp circuit at the generator, I had problems with the GFI's tripping, I used for the external power supply. I never really figured out why, but it may have something to do with the transfer switches.
That's why I went straight to the rear A/C wire and isolated it from the rest of the system with my current set-up.
Other may know more about how to externally tie into the 20 amp circuit at the genny.

[ALANSD]

Peter- nice to see you in a Moho again, I always thought the 310 was the perfect Airstream model. Not too big but a great layout inside. All the best, can't wait to see it repaired and redone by my Texas friend.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by PeterH-Airstreamer

...I had problems with the GFI's tripping, I used for the external power supply. I never really figured out why, but it may have something to do with the transfer switches.

Peter,

Your GFCI problem could be occurring if the motorhome chassis ground (usually green or bare wire) is inadvertently tied to the neutral (white wire) inside the motorhome somewhere.

Brad

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Peter,

Your GFCI problem could be occurring if the motorhome chassis ground (usually green or bare wire) is inadvertently tied to the neutral (white wire) inside the motorhome somewhere.

Brad

Thanks for the insight, Brad. That was a few years ago, when I dealt with that issue on the 345. You can see in the upper right hand corner the plug/socket setup to either use the generators 20 amp circuit or an external 20 amp source via a cord. Sure would have been a bear trying to find that ground/neutral crossover somewhere in the Motorhome.
So there is hope for others to use the Generator 30/20 amp split to tie into the rear A/C circuit

[dadstoy]

Usually the neutral and ground are tied together at the GenSet which is required when running off generator power. And should never be tied together at the MH sub panel. Portable generators are not tied together so I order for me to use my Yamaha 2000 in conjunction with my built in surge protector, I tied the neutral and ground together in my portable adapter box. My Onan genset is tied together at the genset.


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[bkahler]

Dean,

You're right, I wasn't to clear in my previous response. At the generator transfer box the ground and neural are tied together on the generator side of the box. Just as for shore power the ground and neutral are tied together at the main service disconnect at the shore power source (i.e service entrance panel). The important part is all of the grounds and neutrals in the coach (with the exception of the genset) should be separate.

I found on my Argosy someone (most likely not the factory) had tied the ground and neutral together at the main entrance panel. I'm happy to say ALL of that wiring is history!

Brad

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by PeterH-Airstreamer

Thanks for the insight, Brad. That was a few years ago, when I dealt with that issue on the 345. You can see in the upper right hand corner the plug/socket setup to either use the generators 20 amp circuit or an external 20 amp source via a cord. Sure would have been a bear trying to find that ground/neutral crossover somewhere in the Motorhome.
So there is hope for others to use the Generator 30/20 amp split to tie into the rear A/C circuit

Well...you gotta admit it's kinda hard for someone to keep up with all of the trailers and motorhomes that you've owned!

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Dean,

You're right, I wasn't to clear in my previous response. At the generator transfer box the ground and neural are tied together on the generator side of the box. Just as for shore power the ground and neutral are tied together at the main service disconnect at the shore power source (i.e service entrance panel). The important part is all of the grounds and neutrals in the coach (with the exception of the genset) should be separate.

I found on my Argosy someone (most likely not the factory) had tied the ground and neutral together at the main entrance panel. I'm happy to say ALL of that wiring is history!

Brad

Ok, sorry for being so dense about this. Does that mean if you try to tie an external 20 amp (in place of the genny 20 amp) on the generator side of the generator transfer box, it will trip the GFCI?

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by PeterH-Airstreamer

Ok, sorry for being so dense about this. Does that mean if you try to tie an external 20 amp (in place of the genny 20 amp) on the generator side of the generator transfer box, it will trip the GFCI?

Peter, if I understand your configuration correctly you might have an issue. If the 20 amp circuit you installed ties into the generator connections then it sounds like you will have two grounding points, one at the generator and one at the shore power service entrance panel. If you connected directly to the a/c wiring with no connection to the generator then you shouldn't have any issues.

I'm just a programmer but I work with a bunch of electrical engineers so I'll check with them about your set up and let you know what they say.

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by bkahler

I'm just a programmer but I work with a bunch of electrical engineers so I'll check with them about your set up and let you know what they say.

Just a programmer!!! You've probably got more going on in your pinky than I have in my noggin.

Glad to see more of your posts Brad.

Cheers
Tony

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

Just a programmer!!! You've probably got more going on in your pinky than I have in my noggin.

Boy have I got you fooled!

35 years of being a programmer, or as one co-worker once said "Just a code monkey"

Glad to see more of your posts Brad.

Cheers
Tony

It's mowing season so it's sorta surprising that I'm able to get this much time on the computer right now!

Brad

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Peter, if I understand your configuration correctly you might have an issue. If the 20 amp circuit you installed ties into the generator connections then it sounds like you will have two grounding points, one at the generator and one at the shore power service entrance panel. If you connected directly to the a/c wiring with no connection to the generator then you shouldn't have any issues.

I'm just a programmer but I work with a bunch of electrical engineers so I'll check with them about your set up and let you know what they say.

For anyone how may be following the issue with running the second A/C via an additional 20 amp circuit, out of safety concerns, I took the conversation to private messaging.
After Brad checked with his electrician friend, the consensus seems to be that it is safest to isolate the rear A/C circuit either via the separate outlets and a plug or a switch that would isolate all three circuits.
Do NOT try to tie in at the generator side of the generator transfer box, regardless of the fact that the generators 20 amp circuit is taking out of the loop, when using the external 20 amp source.

[bkahler]

To add a little more to what Peter said the major concern is to ensure that within the internal coach wiring the white neutral wires and the bare (green) ground wires should never be bonded together inside the coach. The ONLY exception to that is the onboard generator will have it's ground tied to it's neutral wire. I'll discuss that more in a moment.

In a perfectly wired world the only place a neutral is bonded to the ground wire is at the shore power (home, campground, etc) entrance service panel. There are some exceptions to this but they aren't relevant to this discussion.

When you are connected to shore power the coach becomes an extension of the circuit the shore power system creates. If the neutral and ground become bonded inside the motorhome you now run the risk of getting shocked if there is a bad/poor/corroded connection some where. If you want to know more about that issue you're better off discussing the issue with an electrical engineer or good licensed electrician (I am neither).

As for the generator, when you are using your generator the generator becomes the "entrance panel" which then requires the neutral and ground to be bonded for safety (as in shock) reasons. When the generator is not running there is a transfer switch that isolates the generator neutral wire from the rest of the coach wiring. When the generator is running the transfer switch ties the generator hot and neutral wires to the coach wiring.

I hope all of this makes sense. The bottom line is the only place in your coach where the neutral wire is bonded to ground is on the generator side of the transfer switch. At no other place should you bond the neutral to ground inside your coach.

All devices in your coach should be grounded at the device (light, AC, heater, etc) and at the little circuit breaker panel inside your coach.

As for the description of how to add the additional shore power cord for the rear AC that has been covered in pretty good detail already.

Remember, be safe

Brad