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Old 12-19-2015, 10:21 AM   #281
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Originally Posted by PeterH-Airstreamer View Post
get the one with the little remote camera and be done with that part.
Not sure which one you're referring too. If you're talking about the rear view camera I'll buy the camera when I decide where I want to mount it and how I want to route the wires for it.

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Besides, you should install it right away with the dash so you can have tunes and a GPS to find your way around your shop.
Don't think that that hasn't crossed my mind! Actually I do have the dash itself in place held with Cleco's but need to remove it again to do the actual layout of devices. Now that I'm just about done with the front valance jig I'll have more time to spend on other tasks.

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I will order one myself, but still trying to find one locally, because I have time this weekend to install it (no patience here)
I can understand that concept
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Old 12-19-2015, 12:27 PM   #282
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You two are bad... and now that radio setup is on my wish list!

Ok, as I told Peter, I recently read this whole thread...

I have a question regarding a conversation you guys had about neutral buses and plugged in vs genset.
When my genset stopped running(I replaced the genset starter solenoid last week), I was supplying power at my storage with a 3500w portable generator...
During this time, I plugged in on of those power testers... you know, a little yellow plug with LED diagnostic. It said my MH had an "Open Neutral".
My question is... could this have been because I was supplying power thru the 30w power cable from a generator?
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Old 12-19-2015, 01:39 PM   #283
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You two are bad... and now that radio setup is on my wish list!

Ok, as I told Peter, I recently read this whole thread...

I have a question regarding a conversation you guys had about neutral buses and plugged in vs genset.
When my genset stopped running(I replaced the genset starter solenoid last week), I was supplying power at my storage with a 3500w portable generator...
During this time, I plugged in on of those power testers... you know, a little yellow plug with LED diagnostic. It said my MH had an "Open Neutral".
My question is... could this have been because I was supplying power thru the 30w power cable from a generator?
Steve,

What it amounts to is the ground (bare wire) and the neutral (white) wires inside your coach should not be electrically connected with one exception which I'll cover later in this write up.

The reason you do not want them to be electrically connected is by NEC code the only place neutral and ground are to be connected together is at the entrance panel where your power feed comes from. In this case your power feed comes from the camp ground your camping at or your home if you're plugged in to shore power that is coming from your house.

This means that the neutral and ground are connected (bonded) at your house (or camp ground) entrance panel and then both wires along with the black wire travel from your entrance panel to the outlet your shore power plug is plugged into.

At this point your motorhome is considered an extension of your house just like a bedroom which means there should be no tie between neutral and ground in your coach. If your coach neutral and ground wires were connected in your motorhome this leads to the possibility of getting shocked under certain conditions.

Now with all that being said lets say you're using your generator. In this case you have to consider the generator as an "entrance panel" which means inside the generator the ground and neutral are tied together. The reason you don't noticed this is when the generator is not running the generator transfer switch is open which isolates both the neutral and black (hot) wires inside the generator from the coach wiring. The generator neutral and hot wires only become connected to the rest of the coach wiring when the generator is running and it's transfer switch has switched allowing the generator to power the coach.

My guess is the little generator you were using doesn't have the neutral and ground bonded together. My guess is they should be but I'm not versed enough on the subject to say for certain that they should be.

Hope this all makes sense!

Brad
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Old 12-19-2015, 01:55 PM   #284
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Brad is correct on the bonding of the neutral and ground. The large installed gensets do have the neutral and ground bonded. The small portable generators do not.

I've installed a built in surge protector/power monitor. It shuts off the power under certain conditions such as an open neutral. The first time I used my Yamaha 2000 generator with the motorhome, the power monitor would not allow the power to flow to the MH. I made an adapter/extension cord to plug into the portable generator 20amp receptacle and a 30amp RV receptacle at the other end to plug the MH shore power cable into. In the receptacle box of this adapter, I tied the neutral and ground together so that my built in power monitor would allow the current to flow. It works well. The adapter is never used for any other application since the neutral and ground are bonded in the adapter.


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Old 12-19-2015, 02:07 PM   #285
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Dean, thanks for clarifying how the small generators are setup. I've not dealt with one of the small ones before so I was a little out of my comfort zone!

Brad
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Old 12-19-2015, 02:16 PM   #286
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I took me a while to get my thick skull to understand the above.
The bonding of the ground and neutral on the generator side also make it prohibited to only tie into the 20 amp circuit of the generator from an external source to power the rear AC.
you either have to completely disconnect the rear AC from the MH circuit to run it on an external source (like I did) or completely disconnect the generator to introduce an new external 50 amp power supply, like I believe BobMiller1 did.
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Old 12-19-2015, 03:09 PM   #287
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I will admit that 12v electrics are a stretch for me..... and 110 is way over my head!
That said, I think I got it, and I guess the proof will be when I get the MH up and running to fire up the onboard Kohler and see what the plug says!
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Old 12-19-2015, 03:12 PM   #288
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Thinking back, I think the actual error code from my power system was an "open ground". The Yamaha 2000 has a ground lug on it which might have solved the problem if I connected it to a water pipe but there are no water pipes in the middle of the Nevada desert or Yosemite. I tried to drive a short spike into the ground but after researching and finding out that you need to drive something like a 8-10 foot rod into the ground. Then I learned about neutral/ground bonding which solves the problem. I could have switched off the surge protector but I would never run without one. I truly believe it saved me from electrocution this last summer!


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Old 12-19-2015, 03:57 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by PeterH-Airstreamer View Post
I took me a while to get my thick skull to understand the above.
Well, keep in mind I'm not the best at explaining stuff like this

Quote:
The bonding of the ground and neutral on the generator side also make it prohibited to only tie into the 20 amp circuit of the generator from an external source to power the rear AC.
you either have to completely disconnect the rear AC from the MH circuit to run it on an external source (like I did) or completely disconnect the generator to introduce an new external 50 amp power supply, like I believe BobMiller1 did.
That's the way I understand it.

Electricity is funny stuff, I know just enough to be dangerous
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Old 12-19-2015, 06:04 PM   #290
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.....
I can understand that concept
Ok, Patience is a virtue they say. Nothing locally, had to order mine to arrive on Tuesday. I am in for a hell of a mess to deal with since I have 6 speakers and 2 subwoofers. The space I have on the dash seems to be perfect for this kind of unit. Hopefully I will gain some much needed space behind the dash after removing the antiquated sony units.
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Old 12-19-2015, 06:20 PM   #291
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I assume the radio is going in the lower spot. What do you have planned for the upper opening?
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Old 12-19-2015, 06:28 PM   #292
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I assume the radio is going in the lower spot. What do you have planned for the upper opening?
No plans yet for the upper spot, but may be an aluminum plate with an Airstream logo like Mike did. How about an illuminated Airstream logo?
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Old 12-19-2015, 06:41 PM   #293
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No plans yet for the upper spot, but may be an aluminum plate with an Airstream logo like Mike did. How about an illuminated Airstream logo?
Just a line of LED's... Or mount to some plexi and a light on the edge will shine thru..
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Old 12-19-2015, 07:20 PM   #294
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How about a little window so others can peek into the behind the dash area and really marvel that anything works at all.

These electrical issues are a curse in these old coaches, and an area that I'm least comfortable working on.
From resent threads like "Micky Mouse wired my trailer". Indicate that factory wiring and pluming have not improved much over the years.

So these threads is an opportunity for me to try to learn and start to understand the terms and process of repair. Thanks. It's like a forgn language to me.
So keep it up, I'll have to dive in soon.

I think the isolator is due for replacement soon.

Cheers Richard
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Old 12-19-2015, 09:42 PM   #295
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How about a little window so others can peek into the behind the dash area and really marvel that anything works at all.

....
Thanks Channing and Richard, keep the ideas coming. Funny thought to have a window into the Picasso of wiring.
If you have ever wired a car stereo all by your lonesome self, you know that the end result looks a bit messy. That's how I look at the wiring of these rigs.
I am making an effort to identify as many wires as i can and once I know them by name the mess looks less messy.
Its like that yellow wire, yes I know who you are, you used to run the compressor all the way in the rear with your skinny little body. Now all you do is activate a relay, ha got ya!
Thats a good way to get less afraid of the mess and make sure its safe.
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Old 12-19-2015, 09:54 PM   #296
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How about a little window so others can peek into the behind the dash area and really marvel that anything works at all.

Cheers Richard
Now THAT made me laugh!
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Old 12-20-2015, 06:14 AM   #297
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How about this Teleflex hour meter or this Teleflex hour meter mounted on a polished aluminum plate?

Or if you don't like the round ones how about this square Teleflex hour meter?

I'm adding an hour meter to the dash in my Argosy. There are so many times the engine is running while the coach is parked.

Brad
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Old 12-20-2015, 08:15 AM   #298
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How about this Teleflex hour meter or this Teleflex hour meter mounted on a polished aluminum plate?

Or if you don't like the round ones how about this square Teleflex hour meter?

I'm adding an hour meter to the dash in my Argosy. There are so many times the engine is running while the coach is parked.

Brad
that's an idea. I also would like an original teleflex clock or the electrical Air pressure gauge.
The only issue with the air pressure gauge is the 2 levels of pressure i have in the rear air bag system and which of the 2 I want to monitor.
The Airbags themselves always stay at ~100 pounds protected by a checkvalve and the tank varies between ~80-100 regulated by the pressure switch.
The other thing is that the screen will cover most of that spot, so visibility is limited. I could have a row of green and red warning lights, i.e green with compressor off (but power present) and red with compressor running.
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Old 12-20-2015, 10:57 AM   #299
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Peter, if I had to make a choice I'd monitor the air bags. You know there's a problem with the compressor if the air bags are low but you don't know if the air bags are working right just because you have air in the tank.

Warning lights would be another good use for the panel although like you said with the screen up (most of time?) you won't see the indicators anyway.

I have not seen a Teleflex clock in the style of gauges used in the Classics. I've been watching for several years now with no luck.
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Old 12-20-2015, 06:03 PM   #300
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Holy cow
that will be fun to cut that 1 din opening
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