The Onion Chronicles

[LM782]

I took the Onion in to have the R-12 removed and cab AC fixed. A new compressor, parallel flow condenser, hoses, drier, expansion valve and an electric fan plus controller are in the works. (As well as dealing with the alternator, installing a Derale transmission cooler and new front tires.) Leaving a little room left of the electric fan in case I want to add an oil cooler.

While at the shop someone asked how many of these beauties are still out there. I said "Honestly, no idea. If we combine all the Classics, maybe 150?"

What do people think, is that a reasonable guess? 50 or so with people on the forum, 50 not on the forum, and 50 forgotten about and/or semi-abandoned?

There's a construction crew working on the water main in front of the house. One of the guys said, "That, that, that thing you normally have in the driveway…"
"You mean the Airstream?"
"That's SICK!"
I think that's a compliment.

[Boxite]

Originally Posted by LM782

Has anyone encountered whine from a brand new alternator? I thought maybe it was the air pump, but apparently new ones are now made of unobtainium.
]

Define “whine”. Do you mean the alternator itself has a mechanical whine..? or do you mean there’s now a “whine” in the radio since the brand new alternator..?

If it’s mechanical from the alternator itself…and if that alternator is “brand new”… it could be bearings, new brushes wearing-in on the slip rings, or the cooling fan resonating.

If it is in the radio or audio/sound-system of the vehicle, it’s a bad rectifier-bridge or a failed capacitor (could be in the sound system OR the output filter of the alternator.)

Does the whine increase in frequency or volume with changes in RPM? or Load?

Do not attempt to run an alternator with the battery disconnected from the system as that can cause overvoltage damage to the alternator.

[LM782]

Good question. Sorry that wasn’t clear.

After a bit of reading, far as I can tell the whine is “electromagnetically induced acoustic noise” (per Wikipedia), and not electromagnetic interference (from the audio system). Induced acoustic noise is the hum of a transformer or whir of an electric motor.

Came across a handful of reports online where people experienced a similar whine from multiple and/or different alternators, which could support electromagnetically induced acoustic noise versus mechanical.

Apparently rectifier diodes can experience induced acoustic noise if there’s a load imbalance, but that’s the deep end of the pool and I’m in over my head.

We shut the engine off less than 10 seconds after realizing the alternator was not producing any voltage connected to the isolator.

[LM782]

Put the old alternator back in and still a whine (so much for the rectifier theory). A mechanic's stethoscope pinpointed my screeching/howling/whining culprit - the air pump. Not sure how many others have come across this, but can't imagine I'm the first. Secondary air injector (smog) pumps appear to be unobtainable.

Everything I came across online, and at the big auto part chains, lists them as "Out of Stock, Unavailable until further notice." and there's no availability date. Chevy lists it as "Discontinued Product No Longer Available for Purchase". I reached out to a handful of smaller parts stores, and no luck - they all say the pump is not available. Waiting to hear from https://workhorseservice.com/ who say they are the factory authorized distributor of Workhorse and P- chassis parts.

What other options are there if it can't be replaced. Has anyone rebuilt their air pump?

Don't want to smog delete…

[Boxite]

If you live in an area which performs vehicle emissions checks…you might have some difficulty if you cannot repair/replace the air pump…depending upon the specific inspection requirements.

You may have to replace the pump with one from a newer vehicle. The 2008 GMC Canyon uses an airpump which might be adapted.

[LM782]

I called Cardone (the most common air/smog pump re-manufacturer I came across online) to ask about a couple of their part numbers everyone lists as out of stock, and offer no other information on them (32-207 and 32-285).

They said that those are valid part numbers and can be ordered through Carquest, NAPA, or O'Reilly's. I was told to ask for a Return & Rebuild (R&R) service with Cardone (under the appropriate/matching part number depending on which model air pump is installed), and that Cardone does not work directly with end customers.

Their R&R facility is in Texas and takes about 5 days after the pump is in-house, so 2-3 weeks total including shipping to and from.

[LM782]

Getting the air/smog pump rebuilt is turning into an ordeal. Had to cancel our first two trips for the season and now our vacation, first week in August, is in question.

After my last post I called a bunch of parts stores. Everyone said they don't return parts for rebuild. One hesitantly said they would, but that it could take 4 weeks or more. Since everyone else said "no" I took them up on the offer. I was again forewarned that it could sit in the warehouse an indeterminate amount of time.

Two weeks went by so I decided to swing by the store to ask for an update and was told they had no further information. I called Cardone to ask if they had received the pump, who asked for my account number. Explaining I was the end customer and getting little information from my local supplier, they called the store. Long story short, no one knows where the pump is.

When I called the store they sounded frustrated having taken the job. Can't blame them, the process is rather convoluted. The store said they called the warehouse, asked them to find the pump and return it if they still had it. I'm waiting, with bated breath, to get it back.

Started calling around again and stopped in a parts store I happened to drive by randomly. The third guy I talked to there said he'd have to call Cardone to make sure they still work on smog pumps. He agreed to take it after I explained I already called and only needed someone to process the job since they don't work with the end customer. Sounded like he was all too familiar with it and told the guys to start the paperwork. Now if I can only the pump back in my hands...

[bkahler]

I may have an air pump up in the barn from the 86 345 I dismantled. I'll check this evening while I'm feeding the cats....

[marcvl]

My understanding of smog tests in CA is that the necessary smog equipment must be installed but no one validates if it’s actually working or not. Smog test centers only do a “visual inspection” of the smog equipment. So, that might be your solution if you can’t find a working part.

[LM782]

Originally Posted by bkahler

I may have an air pump up in the barn from the 86 345 I dismantled. I'll check this evening while I'm feeding the cats....

Thanks, Brad. Here's a picture of the back of the air pump in case you need it for reference. My understanding is there were three different models used (left, right, stainless steel vs cast iron manifolds).

How are the cats settling in? Do they interact with you much or do they consider you part of the environmental backdrop that happens to bring them food?

[LM782]

Originally Posted by marcvl

My understanding of smog tests in CA is that the necessary smog equipment must be installed but no one validates if it’s actually working or not. Smog test centers only do a “visual inspection” of the smog equipment. So, that might be your solution if you can’t find a working part.

Thanks. Most everything I came across on air/smog pumps is about deleting them and welding shut the exhaust air injection ports, removing hoses, vacuum lines...

A few posts describe breaking and/or removing the pump's vanes as you describe, essentially using the original pump as an idler pulley with the added benefit of passing visual inspections. Since I didn't investigate the option very far, not sure what else there is to do with the plumbing (exhaust manifolds, vacuum lines, pump connected hoses...). Probably don't want hot exhaust gases flowing backwards through whatever plumbing is left intact.

The remaining posts discuss keeping the system working and argue that the demand on the engine (to spin an air pump) is actually quite small. Their position is that vintage smog engines run more efficiently hot, 454's or big blocks in particular, and that it's actually helpful to burn any unspent fuel in the exhaust gas as originally intended.

Guess I will have to make a decision what to do once I have a better sense where our pump is, or if Brad's is an option...

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by LM782

Thanks, Brad. Here's a picture of the back of the air pump in case you need it for reference. My understanding is there were three different models used (left, right, stainless steel vs cast iron manifolds).

.

you must have checked ebay, right?
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...32904&_sacat=0

[LM782]

Originally Posted by PeterH-350LE

you must have checked ebay, right?
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...32904&_sacat=0

Since I was expecting to rebuild ours and then get it back from the warehouse, apparently I did not check eBay closely enough during my initial review. From your prompt just found a NOS unit, with a GM part number I had not come across before, that says it'll fit a 1985 P30 and bought it. The casting looks more modern, but the connections and bolt pattern look right. Fingers crossed it's the right one. One step closer...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20437564817...Bk9SR9SzjpiiYg

[Boom Sounds]

If it doesn't work maybe check GM7842360 or use the GM Wiki or factory manuals for reference. Seems to have the same GM number but the layout is different. I think I have an 85 factory manual kicking about somewhere. Sometime those results will kick up P30/42 Bread Van only options or exclude the 7.4L variant....I'll be interested in the results because i need to sort mine out at some point.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143363993...Bk9SR76dnZ-iYg

[Boom Sounds]

That ebay seller also does rebuilds and based in CA
https://bzrebuilders.com/

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by LM782

Thanks, Brad. Here's a picture of the back of the air pump in case you need it for reference. My understanding is there were three different models used (left, right, stainless steel vs cast iron manifolds).

Based on recent posts it sounds like you've found a replacement pump. Just in case, here are pictures of the two pumps that I have. In 86 the engines had a side mounted pump and a pump mounted at the top center of the engine. The side mounted pump has a flat belt type pulley and the top pump used a v-belt pulley. The system was sort of a hybrid before GM went to the full flat belt driven system.

How are the cats settling in? Do they interact with you much or do they consider you part of the environmental backdrop that happens to bring them food?

The cats seem to be doing nicely. It appears they now consider the barn their home and the room where they were originally caged as sort of a home base.

The lady at the Humane Society said the longer I feed them wet food the more likely they will stay for the long term. So currently they are getting wet food every day. I plan to transition them over to mostly dry food this fall. I need to build a racoon proof feeding stand and figure out warm housing for the winter.




This is what I typically see when I first drive up to the barn at feeding time

[LM782]

Thanks for finding the air pumps and the pictures, Brad. I had not heard of the flat belt variation. The NOS unit through eBay looks promising, but won’t know for sure until it’s in.

Glad to hear the cats are settling in. Cute pictures. We have two cats. FWIW, our veterinarian strongly recommends wet food over dry food. Something or another about wet food generally being healthier for them and that cats can over-eat dry food for some reason. The vet said just a little dry food per day, primarily as a treat, if we give it to them. Makes taking care of them that much more difficult whenever we travel.

A raccoon resistant food dispenser sounds like an oxymoron…

Luis