The Onion Chronicles

[LM782]

When I dropped the Onion off to have the transmission serviced, they told me they couldn't start it and thought it was the solenoid at the back of the battery drawer (connected to the coach battery kill switch). They re-wired things a bit, to take the solenoid out of the circuits, and now I'm trying to undo their handy work.

I can’t find any labeling. Does anyone have a spec on the main battery solenoid in case I need to buy a new one?

Since I still can't open the battery drawer, the manual's schematic and wiring is still a bit hazy. (New slides are here, but are not installed because it may require spot welding.) One of the guys from the rally will take some pictures for me, but if anyone has some already - more pictures would be a good reference.

[Kvsterling]

Sorry to hear about the wiring frustration. I had to re wire so many of the previous owners’ changes, the solenoid has been removed from the system. Sounds like a volt meter adventure…good luck!

After replacing our distributor on the road, it hasn’t been right (down on power). I’ve referenced your engine timing readings and finally got ours running strong. Thanks for posting that!

[chiefair]

[QUOTE=Replace broken windshield washer pump and missing nozzles [/QUOTE]


Can you share what you found for replacement washer nozzles? I’m not having any luck finding replacements.

[LM782]

Originally Posted by Kvsterling

Sorry to hear about the wiring frustration. I had to re wire so many of the previous owners’ changes, the solenoid has been removed from the system. Sounds like a volt meter adventure…good luck!

After replacing our distributor on the road, it hasn’t been right (down on power). I’ve referenced your engine timing readings and finally got ours running strong. Thanks for posting that!

Glad to hear you found it helpful, and your engine is running strong.

On the drive to Maine I found mine is still hesitating some going over big hills. According to the P30 service manual, it could be due to vapor lock. They recommend using an electric fuel pump, which is installed but I disconnected when the wire shorted. Will put it back in circuit to see how it does, but first have to deal with the battery compartment; couldn’t open it because of the broken slide.

One step at a time.

[LM782]

Originally Posted by chiefair

Can you share what you found for replacement washer nozzles? I’m not having any luck finding replacements.

I had a hard time finding the original nozzle and went with relatively generic option: Dorman 47191. They are zip tied to the wiper arm. Not perfect, but functional enough and sufficient to pass state inspection.

[dadstoy]

Originally Posted by LM782

I had a hard time finding the original nozzle and went with relatively generic option: Dorman 47191. They are zip tied to the wiper arm. Not perfect, but functional enough and sufficient to pass state inspection.

I replaced mine 10 years ago and I don't remember what company I got them from. But I do remember it was a school bus parts house.


Today, I searched this company and found these...


http://www.schoolbuspartsco.com/WebP...r_washers.html

[LM782]

Does anyone have a spec on the main battery solenoid? Far as I can tell, ours is not working. It needs to be continuous duty, but what amperage rating (e.g. 100A)?

To check the solenoid, I put an ohmmeter across the large (battery) terminals and applied 12VDC at the smaller (ignition) terminal (with ground to the mounting bracket). The electromagnet triggers (drawing about 3.5A), but the battery terminals remain open - indicating it's broken.

If I understand its use correctly, the solenoid connects the coach and engine batteries together so that the alternator charges everything while the engine runs.

If the solenoid is open all the time, not sure why the service center reported it wouldn't start until they took the solenoid out of circuit. I'd imagine it would start, the batteries wouldn't charge, and then it would stop. Possibly something else is going on…

[LM782]

Digging, I found in my notes the original alternator installed by Airstream was made by Lestek model number 9135G rated for 135A. Guess the main battery solenoid needs to match the potential alternator output or: continuous duty 135A.

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by LM782

Does anyone have a spec on the main battery solenoid? Far as I can tell, ours is not working. It needs to be continuous duty, but what amperage rating (e.g. 100A)?

To check the solenoid, I put an ohmmeter across the large (battery) terminals and applied 12VDC at the smaller (ignition) terminal (with ground to the mounting bracket). The electromagnet triggers (drawing about 3.5A), but the battery terminals remain open - indicating it's broken.

If I understand its use correctly, the solenoid connects the coach and engine batteries together so that the alternator charges everything while the engine runs.

If the solenoid is open all the time, not sure why the service center reported it wouldn't start until they took the solenoid out of circuit. I'd imagine it would start, the batteries wouldn't charge, and then it would stop. Possibly something else is going on…

Luis,
I suspect that the service center is clueless about the workings of these systems.

The only job of the solenoid by the battery compartment is to connect the batteries for emergency starting via a momentarily switch in the glove compartment.
The Battery Isolator in the front right facing the rig charges both batteries with the engine running.

If you have not done it, you should replace the dinosaur isolator with a modern one that does not loose ~1volt , like the victron Argo FED
https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Energ...a-681412399428

[LM782]

Thanks for the clarification. I misinterpreted the manual. Got it. Power is fed to the solenoid connecting the batteries only when cranking, not when the engine is running. Intermittent duty it is. Have a Cole Hersee 24022 on order.

As a newbie to the group, I’m strictly guessing here, but I think the reason Brad is trying to convince you to get another motorhome - yes, with all the work that comes with them - is that we don’t want to lose having you involved with the group. You have helped me numerous times already, and I truly appreciate it. Confident I am not the only one to say… thank you. (He might also want the Argosy to go to a good home.)

If there’s anything I learned attending the Fryeburg rally is, it’s all about the community. I have benefited so much from your (and others) contributions to the forum. As long as I have veto power, until the lure to have one of your very own in the driveway becomes intolerable, feel free to live your Classic motorhome life vicariously through me and the Big Silver Onion.

The Onion’s isolator, installed when Steve was driving cross country, is made by Noco. Far as I can tell, old school diode unit. Have a Victron Afgon FET in the shopping cart.

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by LM782

Thanks for the clarification. I misinterpreted the manual. Got it. Power is fed to the solenoid connecting the batteries only when cranking, not when the engine is running. Intermittent duty it is. Have a Cole Hersee 24022 on order

Exactly what you describe (when cranking, versus the momentary switch) is what makes these classics such a challenge. They changed stuff on the fly and rarely will you find 2 identical units. I actually installed an on/off switch in the glove compartment, to be able to charge the Engine battery at camp for a short time. Its not idiot proof and I hope the new owner will not forget...

Originally Posted by LM782

As a newbie to the group, I’m strictly guessing here, but I think the reason Brad is trying to convince you to get another motorhome - yes, with all the work that comes with them - is that we don’t want to lose having you involved with the group. You have helped me numerous times already, and I truly appreciate it. Confident I am not the only one to say… thank you. (He might also want the Argosy to go to a good home.)

Brad and I go back a long way and most of the time we are pulling each others leg. His entire place out in the country is run by a donkey named Tommy, Brad has little say in every day matters. But dont let him fool you, he has gotten me out of a pickle many times. The guy is brilliant when it comes to electrical and mechanical trouble shooting.

Originally Posted by LM782

If there’s anything I learned attending the Fryeburg rally is, it’s all about the community. I have benefited so much from your (and others) contributions to the forum. As long as I have veto power, until the lure to have one of your very own in the driveway becomes intolerable, feel free to live your Classic motorhome life vicariously through me and the Big Silver Onion.

I appreciate that and will be right there with you. You may know that my latest resto of the 350 was #4 and I went all out and did not spare any expense nor effort. Its currently on the way to Baltimore for a trip across the ocean. As far as I know it has been performing flawlessly, despite the brutal heat. I find joy and satisfaction in the process of restoration and always have plenty of Aluminum trailers in the driveway. But after 20 plus years of Classic Motorhomes, I need a little break and tend to the challenges that come with getting older.

Originally Posted by LM782

The Onion’s isolator, installed when Steve was driving cross country, is made by Noco. Far as I can tell, old school diode unit. Have a Victron Afgon FET in the shopping cart.

you and your 345 will so pleased to see that extra Volt.

[LM782]

A day or two after returning from Fryeburg, having noted a lack of power cresting large hills, I read up on vapor lock in the P30 service manual. It recommends adding a push fuel pump, with bypass and check valve, which Steve (previous owner) had done. He did it on the road. It was an interim solution until he could properly finish the job. May, last year, a wire pinched. Due to the lack of a fuse, it shorted starting a small electrical fire (right next to the carburetor) scaring the c^@p out of me. Fortunately it extinguished before anything significant caught. I cut out the wiring and figured I'd get back to it some time. Well, now was the time…

The engine wouldn't crank, so I connected the Onion to shore power only to hear a circuit breaker tripping in the coach 12VDC distribution panel. Turned out the be the main/Univolt 12V circuit breaker. For one reason or another it read 9-10VDC. With the three batteries tied together, reported main battery solenoid broken, inability to open the battery compartment (broken slide), and another camping trip coming up in two weeks - time to tackle the problem head-on.

With the drawer supported by blocks of wood, I opened it, disconnected and removed the batteries. Out of the coach they all measured about 11V, so onto the charger/conditioner they went one by one.

I pulled the battery compartment out the Onion after removing all the wiring. A previous owner had added thin sheetmetal to cover a small hole in the drawer bottom. I wire brushed the rust, neutralized it, etched bare metal with a prep solution and painted the steel with POR-15. To patch the hole at the bottom, I fastened ready-to-paint 0.046" thick galvanized sheetmetal (slightly thinner than the drawer) with stainless steel rivets then sealed the compartment bottom with POR-15 inside and out.

The original slides were made by Accuride, who is still in business. Measuring the ones installed in another compartment, I ordered and received replacement slides; model 301 22” long.

Half of the broken slide and its mounting bracket were still fastened to the drawer. The other half, were still attached to the coach. The slides themselves are spot welded to brackets which attach to the coach and the compartment. I drilled out the spot welds, only as deep as the slide material - not all the way through the mounting brackets. There were still residual attachment points that I broke apart with a heavy duty 1" putty knife as a cold chisel. I used a scrap piece of wood to mark where the slides were placed on the mounting brackets.

Not having a spot welder, and likely not enough time to find someone that does (plus get in their queue), I decided to use hardware to attach the new slides onto the old brackets. Using the scrap wood markings to align the new slides, I center punched where the hardware holes needed to be. After drilling the mounting brackets I fastened the slides being careful to avoid rubbing and to get them as close as possible to their original positions.

After installing everything (new solenoid, isolator and reconditioned batteries included) back onto the Onion, I had to shim the compartment up a little. The slide to mounting bracket alignment is fairly sensitive. The additional hardware made the slide/bracket re-installation a little clumsy. But, it works as long as the hardware is not in the way of anything. Because of the slope in our driveway, and moving the compartment in and out a number of times adjusting things… the new slide broke. Argh #*&$!!

Propped up the compartment again, pulled out the batteries (again), removed the (new, newly) broken slide and installed another one. At least having hardware instead of spot welds made that easier. Put the compartment back in and installed only the engine battery. Moved the Onion to the street where it is relatively level and installed the coach batteries. I will now open the battery compartment only on flat ground. Why?

The Accuride 301 slides are pretty much at their limit used in the battery compartment. They are medium duty slides with a load capacity of 175 pounds per PAIR. If the average battery weighs 40 pounds, times 3, that is 120 pounds in batteries alone. If the compartment weighs 55 pounds, the total is at the slide's load capacity. Any torsional load, due to a slope, when the compartment is opened will easily pull the slides apart. Lesson learned.

Took the Onion out for a test drive and believe I figured out what drained the batteries - our younger daughters love playing in the camper and it looks like they left the spot light on overnight. When I got back from the test drive, a loop ammeter at the isolator input and output confirmed everything is charging correctly at high idle (still have an alternator problem at low idle - a future story). Connected to shore power yesterday, the circuit breaker no longer trips (the coach 12VDC is no longer trying to charge the engine battery). Far as I can tell, everything is back to "normal".

A week plus later... time to figure out the fuel pump wiring. And, pack for our trip to Vermont in a few days. Did I mention a lack of power cresting hills?

[LM782]

The fuel pump draws 1.5A. Any recommendations on where to tap 12V that is powered only when the ignition switch is on?

Luis

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by LM782

The fuel pump draws 1.5A. Any recommendations on where to tap 12V that is powered only when the ignition switch is on?

Luis

Several plug in options on your GM fuse panel. FUSE IT right away!!

[LM782]

Of course… start with the obvious location. Since it was powered from the solenoid in the engine compartment before, I was looking for 12V under the doghouse. The fuse box makes perfect sense.

Tapped an available connection that has power only when the ignition is on, installed an inline 5A fuse and connected the fuel pump through a switch hanging under the dashboard. If it resolve the lack of power cresting big hills, I’ll come up with a more permanent installation (turns off if the engine stops or camper is on its side).

Also found the aisle light problem. The socket at the kitchen sink shorted. Replaced it with a new pigtail and installed LED bulbs. Piece by piece it’s coming together.

Luis

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by LM782

Of course… start with the obvious location. Since it was powered from the solenoid in the engine compartment before, I was looking for 12V under the doghouse. The fuse box makes perfect sense.

Tapped an available connection that has power only when the ignition is on, installed an inline 5A fuse and connected the fuel pump through a switch hanging under the dashboard. If it resolve the lack of power cresting big hills, I’ll come up with a more permanent installation (turns off if the engine stops or camper is on its side).

Also found the aisle light problem. The socket at the kitchen sink shorted. Replaced it with a new pigtail and installed LED bulbs. Piece by piece it’s coming together.

Luis

Luis, hopefully you plan on leaving the switch on all the time. Having the electric pump running all the time is how GM intended it to function.

[LM782]

Thanks for the heads up, Brad. Good point. GM did not include a manual on/off switch in the control circuit.

Since it runs fine everywhere else, I planned only using the electric fuel pump ascending big hills. Having steady pressure at the carburetor inlet makes sense though.

Any disadvantages to switching it on and off that you are aware of?

Luis

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by LM782

Thanks for the heads up, Brad. Good point. GM did not include a manual on/off switch in the control circuit.

Since it runs fine everywhere else, I planned only using the electric fuel pump ascending big hills. Having steady pressure at the carburetor inlet makes sense though.

Any disadvantages to switching it on and off that you are aware of?

Luis

I see only disadvantages for turning off the pump. You may think it's running fine everywhere else but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if your engine didn't run lean at times due to mild fuel starvation. It's something you might not notice while driving but the condition can exist. Constant fuel pressure helps keep an engine running properly.

I just finished installing an electric pump on Peanut and it starts and idles SO much better. Like night and day difference.

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by bkahler

I see only disadvantages for turning off the pump. You may think it's running fine everywhere else but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if your engine didn't run lean at times due to mild fuel starvation. It's something you might not notice while driving but the condition can exist. Constant fuel pressure helps keep an engine running properly.

I just finished installing an electric pump on Peanut and it starts and idles SO much better. Like night and day difference.

I second Brad on that at least on the longer models. It not only helps mountain driving, but also prevents Vapor lock in the hot climates. On my first Classic, a 1979 28 Excella, I only used the rear pump for climbing mountain passes. The big mistake i made was to install a low micron fuel filter that would get me stuck. Best to have a canister type for the fuel coming out of the tank and install 20 micron midship.

[dadstoy]

About 10 years ago, I installed an electric pump next to the fuel tank in my 280. However, I never plumbed it in nor connected to power. I've done multiple trips over mountain passes into Oregon, to Burning Man and to Yosemite, many times pulling my flat trailer and UTV, and I've never had a fuel starvation or vapor lock issue.

I do plan on hooking it up "soon". My plan is to wire it to a switch. I'm going to use a 3 position switch (On/Off/Momentary) and also wire it through an oil pressure switch. The On position will be wired through the ignition switch. The Momentary position will be to run the fuel pump with ignition off. I also want to be able to have the ignition on with engine off and yet not be running the electric pump. I also probably won't run the pump unless I feel it is needed on mountain grades. I'm not disagreeing since I'm certainly not an expert, but I don't think the engine would run in a lean condition. If the mechanical pump was not able to keep the fuel bowl "full" during a long up grade and the fuel in the bowl dropped below the jets in the bottom of the carb, I think the engine will "stumble" and stop running. I don't think there would be a point where the engine is still running at 3000 RPMs as you are screaming up that mountain grade at 25MPH. The engine will run just fine until the moment the fuel bowl goes empty and the engine shuts off.

I think putting On/Off switches on certain components is a good idea. I need to wire the air pump through a switch as well, since I don't want it to run on every condition with the ignition switch on. And there are times when I want to run the air pump with ignition off. I put an electric choke on the carb and I might even run that through an On/Off switch even though I've never heard of anyone doing that. There are times that I need to turn the ignition on for a few minutes before starting the engine. I do that now with no switch on the air pump. I want the air pump to pump up the tank and shut off before I crank the engine since the air pump and starter require a lot of amps and volts to run. I've done this before and I've found that the electric choke will have warmed up by the time I start the engine and then I have no choke. I will just have to remember to turn the choke on before cranking engine which I'm sure I will forgot at times!

My only concern is the vertical location of the electric fuel pump. They usually require that they be located below the bottom of the tank. This is not possible with the large fuel tanks in the MH and just how low the tank bottom sits. This is a condition that is the most common issue for burning out the fuel pumps. What are the thoughts on this?