Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-12-2021, 11:38 AM   #81
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterH-350LE View Post
Keep the clearance, with the cover being metal you want lots of fireproof insulation and sound proofing
The reason for trying to use metal is to hopefully reduce the amount of fireproof insulation required. I still plan on using insulation but until I know how much this thing is going to weigh I won't know which approach to take.

I've got a small 50 lb scale somewhere in my shop. If I can find it I'll weight all the metal pieces. That should give me a good idea of what it's going to weigh.
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2021, 09:10 PM   #82
Rivet Master
 
kidjedi's Avatar
 
1972 25' Tradewind
1976 31' Excella 500
1974 31' Excella 500
1975 24' Argosy 24
Denver , Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,103
Coupla things...

I did my GMC engine cover today. That Thermo-tec stuff from Summit is great (as long as it does what is advertised). I may even skip the ceramic fiber blanket layer, knowing I've got every layer of plywood completely encapsulated with this stuff, and it's supposed to withstand temps of 2000F. though... I just rechecked that, and even though the Summit website says it will withstand "ambient temps" of 2000 degrees F, there is a response from a seller on Amazon that says "In addition to the polyethylene film, the foil surface provides direct protection from radiant heat up to 2000 Deg F and direct temperatures up to 300 Deg F." Who knows what that really means, so now I'm rethinking the fiber blanket yet again.

Regarding the metal dog house... just wanted to point out that "used up" stainless steel grills are very cheap and easy to come by. I can get them at a local salvage place for $25-50 all day long. I made the AC shroud on my Argosy out of one (barely had to do anything), but it might also be a good source for stainless to use for a dog house cover.

EDIT: sometimes restaurant prep tables are cheap too. I've cut a lot of stainless panels out of old restaurant tables I've picked up for $25-$30.
__________________
25' 1972 Airstream Trade Wind Land Yacht (heavily customized)
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD (diesel)
BeahmStream.com
kidjedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2021, 06:36 AM   #83
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidjedi View Post
Coupla things...

I did my GMC engine cover today. That Thermo-tec stuff from Summit is great (as long as it does what is advertised). I may even skip the ceramic fiber blanket layer, knowing I've got every layer of plywood completely encapsulated with this stuff, and it's supposed to withstand temps of 2000F. though... I just rechecked that, and even though the Summit website says it will withstand "ambient temps" of 2000 degrees F, there is a response from a seller on Amazon that says "In addition to the polyethylene film, the foil surface provides direct protection from radiant heat up to 2000 Deg F and direct temperatures up to 300 Deg F." Who knows what that really means, so now I'm rethinking the fiber blanket yet again.

Regarding the metal dog house... just wanted to point out that "used up" stainless steel grills are very cheap and easy to come by. I can get them at a local salvage place for $25-50 all day long. I made the AC shroud on my Argosy out of one (barely had to do anything), but it might also be a good source for stainless to use for a dog house cover.

EDIT: sometimes restaurant prep tables are cheap too. I've cut a lot of stainless panels out of old restaurant tables I've picked up for $25-$30.
Not sure about using stainless for a doghouse cover. Stainless steel is heavier than carbon steel and aluminum, with the lowest strength-to-weight ratio. It's also possible for stainless to release chromium fumes at high temperatures. Not sure I'd want to use it as a fire barrier.

The fiber blanket does sound like the best option. I think Peter's description of what he did points to a better sound and engine heat experience.

I'm curious as to what the seller means when they say "direct temperature"?! Sounds like seller mumbo jumbo
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2021, 12:23 PM   #84
Rivet Master
 
kidjedi's Avatar
 
1972 25' Tradewind
1976 31' Excella 500
1974 31' Excella 500
1975 24' Argosy 24
Denver , Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,103
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkahler View Post
Not sure about using stainless for a doghouse cover. Stainless steel is heavier than carbon steel and aluminum, with the lowest strength-to-weight ratio. It's also possible for stainless to release chromium fumes at high temperatures. Not sure I'd want to use it as a fire barrier.
Good information. I figured if they were using it to literally contain fire (the grill hood), it would be a good choice, but maybe not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkahler View Post
I'm curious as to what the seller means when they say "direct temperature"?! Sounds like seller mumbo jumbo
Right. But also a good reminder that even though we see things written in the item description, who knows what the "truth" is. I bought this stuff because Summit (and others) advertised a 2000F max temp, but if the "direct contact" temp is only 300F, then it's the same as all the other butyl mats. It's around the same price as Kilamat, so I didn't get fleeced or anything (and with the Summit buy-one-get-one when I bought, I think I actually came out quite a bit ahead). I also like that it's a large sheet, not a bunch of tiny ones. But the discrepancies in the item descriptions is definitely something to think about.
__________________
25' 1972 Airstream Trade Wind Land Yacht (heavily customized)
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD (diesel)
BeahmStream.com
kidjedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2021, 06:31 PM   #85
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,877
I finally started assembling the metal doghouse cover this afternoon. I'm going to build one and make sure it fits my Argosy and my old 310. Assuming it fits both I'll fabricate the second one.

First thing I did was to weigh the metal pieces that will make up one cover assembly. That came to about 27 lbs.

Click image for larger version

Name:	20210917_134644.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	287.6 KB
ID:	404249


I then weighed the bare plastic doghouse cover and it came to 10 lbs.

Click image for larger version

Name:	20210917_134847.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	271.3 KB
ID:	404250


If I remember right Peters completed cover weighed in at around 27 lbs so right off the bat the steel cover is starting at a disadvantage!

I'm thinking about how to make it easier to lift the steel cover and my first thought was to have a couple of hinged handles, one on each side to help lift the housing. One thing I found while handling the original cover it was a little awkward to lift and move around the cockpit due to no handles. With luck maybe handles will help that process somewhat.

Here's a few pictures of where I'm at so far.

Click image for larger version

Name:	20210917_133732.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	185.8 KB
ID:	404251

Click image for larger version

Name:	20210917_133750.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	198.8 KB
ID:	404252


I need to trim the sides to follow the correct upward angle but first I need to tweak the angle upward slightly. The panel as bent by the fab shop is off by about one degree and I didn't catch it before I started welding. That 1 degree equated to about 1/2' difference on the side where the angle meets the flat bottom near the curved corners.

Click image for larger version

Name:	20210917_184253.jpg
Views:	8
Size:	380.2 KB
ID:	404253

Click image for larger version

Name:	20210917_184344.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	400.9 KB
ID:	404254


Also, the curved panels as delivered by the fab shop are about 1" short overall on the circumference so I will need them to make four more corners. The curved panels they made are the correct radius, they are just to short.
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2021, 07:47 PM   #86
Airstream Driver
 
PeterH-350LE's Avatar

 
1994 30' Excella
1992 35' Airstream 350
Austin , Texas
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,016
Images: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkahler View Post
......

First thing I did was to weigh the metal pieces that will make up one cover assembly. That came to about 27 lbs.

I then weighed the bare plastic doghouse cover and it came to 10 lbs.

If I remember right Peters completed cover weighed in at around 27 lbs so right off the bat the steel cover is starting at a disadvantage!

...

So assuming, I started with the bare 10 lbs cover, I must have added ~17 pounds, which means that you could end up @~ 44 pounds, if you go through all the fire retarding padding extremes, I went through.

I hope your trans dipstick is in the front.
__________________
1994 30' Excella Front Kitchen Trailer
1990 25' Excella Travel trailer
1992 350LE Classic Touring Coach
AIR #13
PeterH-350LE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2021, 01:26 PM   #87
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterH-350LE View Post
So assuming, I started with the bare 10 lbs cover, I must have added ~17 pounds, which means that you could end up @~ 44 pounds, if you go through all the fire retarding padding extremes, I went through.

I hope your trans dipstick is in the front.
I don't think I need to worry as much about the fire retardant materials with the cover being steel. I think sound proofing and exterior covering will likely be what I'm going to be dealing with.

I think handles will make a big difference in removing and installing the cover.
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2021, 01:33 PM   #88
Keen amature
 
martin300662's Avatar

 
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield , Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,346
No sure if it applies with the later shape dog-house cover, but Bella's cover barely passes the seats when opening so adding any extra width for handles would be problematic.
martin300662 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2021, 01:36 PM   #89
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,877
Readjusted the angle for the upper section and the fit seems to be very good. What's left to be done on this one is the front corners need to be fabricated and installed and the upper edges where the panel meets the top of the doghouse opening needs to be welded in place.

I weighed the cover along with the corner pieces and the weight looks like it's going to end up being 28 lbs.

Click image for larger version

Name:	20210919_134231.jpg
Views:	7
Size:	202.4 KB
ID:	404374


You can see in this picture where the curved corner piece dimensions were way off as far as length goes. The curve is right, they were just made to short.

Click image for larger version

Name:	20210919_134344.jpg
Views:	8
Size:	235.6 KB
ID:	404377

Click image for larger version

Name:	20210919_134354.jpg
Views:	8
Size:	185.7 KB
ID:	404376

This week the panel will probably be test fitted on the 310 so that will tell me whether or not I fabricated the doghouse opening in the Argosy the same as the 310. Hopefully I'm close

Brad
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2021, 01:38 PM   #90
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by martin300662 View Post
No sure if it applies with the later shape dog-house cover, but Bella's cover barely passes the seats when opening so adding any extra width for handles would be problematic.
That's one of the reasons I'm looking at folding handles. Also, these covers lift off instead of being hinged so that will hopefully alleviate that worry. I do have the drivers seat installed so that should provide some idea of what it will be like.
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2021, 06:44 AM   #91
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by martin300662 View Post
No sure if it applies with the later shape dog-house cover, but Bella's cover barely passes the seats when opening so adding any extra width for handles would be problematic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkahler View Post
That's one of the reasons I'm looking at folding handles. Also, these covers lift off instead of being hinged so that will hopefully alleviate that worry. I do have the drivers seat installed so that should provide some idea of what it will be like.
Martin, I was thinking with the folding hinges it wouldn't be a problem, unfortunately the handles would be extended when going past the seats and once I thought about your question again I realized what you were getting at!

So I went down to the shop to see just how much clearance there was between the side of the doghouse cover and the seat. It looks like there is about 3" of clearance which should be more than enough for a fold out handle. The seat looks a little weird because I have it covered with plastic bags

Click image for larger version

Name:	20210919_173231.jpg
Views:	5
Size:	207.4 KB
ID:	404441

Hopefully this means using handles won't be an issue in my installation. Here's a picture of the style of handle that I'm considering.


Click image for larger version

Name:	41yAKDtdnFL._AC_SL1003_.jpg
Views:	5
Size:	16.3 KB
ID:	404442
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2021, 06:50 AM   #92
Airstream Driver
 
PeterH-350LE's Avatar

 
1994 30' Excella
1992 35' Airstream 350
Austin , Texas
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,016
Images: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkahler View Post
I don't think I need to worry as much about the fire retardant materials with the cover being steel. I think sound proofing and exterior covering will likely be what I'm going to be dealing with.

I think handles will make a big difference in removing and installing the cover.

I like your handle design. Still concerned about heat transfer without added "fire resistant" insulation/soundproofing. Last thing I would want to do is create even more heat in the cab.
__________________
1994 30' Excella Front Kitchen Trailer
1990 25' Excella Travel trailer
1992 350LE Classic Touring Coach
AIR #13
PeterH-350LE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2021, 07:16 AM   #93
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterH-350LE View Post
I like your handle design. Still concerned about heat transfer without added "fire resistant" insulation/soundproofing. Last thing I would want to do is create even more heat in the cab.
I still plan to add fire resistant insulation. I just don't think I need to have excessive amounts of it due to having a steel cover vs plastic cover.

I think a layer of sound deadening matt and a layer of heat barrier should be sufficient.

I'm guessing that the overall weight of the cover will end up in the 35 lb range. With handles that should be manageable.

Something I have been considering, mostly as a "just in case" mental exercise, is hinging the cover at the top like the 74-76 Argosy doghouse covers were hinged. I would prefer not to do this but it certainly is an option. Possibly a hinge with quick disconnects to allow the cover to be lifted out of the way if need be.

With the existing plastic cover I found while working on the 310 over the years I would at times just lift the cover up and hold it while I looked at whatever I needed to look at under the hood, like the air cleaner, etc. Something I thought about doing but never did was to add a prop rod to hold the cover up so I wouldn't have to lift it out of the way to do a simple task like checking the transmission fluid.

I'm going to start fabricating the second cover later this week and will also try and get the curved panel sections remade before the end of the week.
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2021, 09:09 AM   #94
4 Rivet Member
 
1986 34.5' Airstream 345
Londonderry , New Hampshire
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 274
If you hinge the cover you could use gas spring rods to help
with the lift. You can get them in many different lengths
and with different lifting forces. They are pretty cheap too.
Air345Fly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2021, 01:49 PM   #95
2 Rivet Member
 
1991 35' Airstream 350
Mentor , Ohio
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 99
doghouse

this is an interesting subject - I need to rebuild or repair my doghouse cover as there is too much heat infiltration into the cab. And noise. The sound and heat deadening layers are a good start, but it seems I have sealing problems too.

I don't think the hinge/handle idea will work, unless the handles are removable and the doghouse can be removed from the hinge. Also skeptical about mounting of the lift assists.....but you guys are magicians.
dspaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2021, 04:14 PM   #96
Airstream Driver
 
PeterH-350LE's Avatar

 
1994 30' Excella
1992 35' Airstream 350
Austin , Texas
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,016
Images: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkahler View Post
...

Something I have been considering, mostly as a "just in case" mental exercise, is hinging the cover at the top like the 74-76 Argosy doghouse covers were hinged. I would prefer not to do this but it certainly is an option. Possibly a hinge with quick disconnects to allow the cover to be lifted out of the way if need be.

With the existing plastic cover I found while working on the 310 over the years I would at times just lift the cover up and hold it while I looked at whatever I needed to look at under the hood, like the air cleaner, etc.....

One of my most favorite use of the cover is the ability to lay on it after moving it back 8-10inches. This gives me more comfortable access to everything unreachable in the front , like the belts, fan, etc etc. I would not want to give up the ability by hinging it in the front.
__________________
1994 30' Excella Front Kitchen Trailer
1990 25' Excella Travel trailer
1992 350LE Classic Touring Coach
AIR #13
PeterH-350LE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2021, 02:36 PM   #97
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by dspaw View Post
this is an interesting subject - I need to rebuild or repair my doghouse cover as there is too much heat infiltration into the cab. And noise. The sound and heat deadening layers are a good start, but it seems I have sealing problems too.

I don't think the hinge/handle idea will work, unless the handles are removable and the doghouse can be removed from the hinge. Also skeptical about mounting of the lift assists.....but you guys are magicians.
Not sure why the handles would need to be removable when they would just fold down out of the way.

Hinging would be neat but would likely be more of a hindrance than a benefit in the long run. Possibly a hinge that isn't captive would be a possibility. The ability to lift the cover off and out of the way is important especially when working towards the front of the engine.

I'm considering prop rods of some sort that could hold the back end of the cover up to allow for easy checking of transmission oil and engine oil since I don't have the front mounted dipstick. The rods would then just lay down out of the way. The original 74 doghouse cover had just such a prop rod that seemed to work well.

If gas cylinders could be set up such that they can slip off their pivot points for complete removal of the cover then I can see where they might be useful. Using gas cylinders would require the front edge to be captured somehow so it could act like a pivot point but still allow the cover to be lifted off.

With prop rods instead of gas cylinders you don't really need a hinge because you can just use the front most edge as a pivot point. I do that now when lifting the plastic cover to look at the engine.
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2021, 02:37 PM   #98
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterH-350LE View Post
One of my most favorite use of the cover is the ability to lay on it after moving it back 8-10inches. This gives me more comfortable access to everything unreachable in the front , like the belts, fan, etc etc. I would not want to give up the ability by hinging it in the front.
Agreed. I used to lay on the 310 cover like this all the time while working on the engine. Made for a nice little platform to lay on.
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2021, 06:23 PM   #99
Rivet Master
 
dadstoy's Avatar

 
1982 28' Airstream 280
_ , _
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,176
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterH-350LE View Post
One of my most favorite use of the cover is the ability to lay on it after moving it back 8-10inches. This gives me more comfortable access to everything unreachable in the front , like the belts, fan, etc etc. I would not want to give up the ability by hinging it in the front.

Peter, you mean like this?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	aIMG_3207.jpg
Views:	5
Size:	440.1 KB
ID:	404568  
dadstoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2021, 07:13 PM   #100
Airstream Driver
 
PeterH-350LE's Avatar

 
1994 30' Excella
1992 35' Airstream 350
Austin , Texas
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,016
Images: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by dadstoy View Post
Peter, you mean like this?

Yes, Dean, but you are cheating, because you have the model with the metal plate you can remove.
The later models do not have that luxury.
__________________
1994 30' Excella Front Kitchen Trailer
1990 25' Excella Travel trailer
1992 350LE Classic Touring Coach
AIR #13
PeterH-350LE is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FiRe, FiRe, FIRE, in the AiRsTrEaM!!!! TheBigRedTruck On The Road... 47 08-14-2021 06:30 PM
Original and customized curtains and accessories, original bedspread and pillows, and original couch covers, bolsters, and pillows tan and gold hshovic Airstream Classifieds 1 04-11-2020 12:22 PM
FIRE! Electrical Short and Slide-Out Controller Fire rjd Electronics & Connectivity 10 07-24-2009 08:47 AM
Doghouse designs? ALANSD General Motorhome Topics 14 02-09-2006 06:16 AM
First time owner, doghouse issues gsymes Our Community 6 01-20-2004 06:41 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.