Plastic doghouse covers and fire oh my....

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by PeterH-350LE

27 pounds for my cover incl carpeting. I removed the insulation shell from the cover and the biggest problem I am having is the unstable material. It just flakes apart, which makes it hard to keep it glued down.
I am experiencing with sodium silicate to see if it will stabilize it and at the same time improve the fire rating. Problem would be that I would need at least 2 gallons, since its so porous.
Also I understand that the sodium silicate may harden and fire proof it, but make it more bridle on a different level. New grounds for me, just trying to explore options.

They make a high temp retardant expanding foam, maybe worth liberally coating the inside of the dog house, then using a rasp file/course sander to knock it back to a manageable thickness?

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by martin300662

They make a high temp retardant expanding foam, maybe worth liberally coating the inside of the dog house, then using a rasp file/course sander to knock it back to a manageable thickness?

Interesting option, I will look into as well.

Here are my test results of treating the existing insulation, let the picture speak for itself and then guess which part was soaked with the sodium silica solution

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by martin300662

They make a high temp retardant expanding foam, maybe worth liberally coating the inside of the dog house, then using a rasp file/course sander to knock it back to a manageable thickness?

The thickness in the critical places is less than 1". More so in the open spaces like around the distributor. It would be a cumbersome job, trying to shave the material to the right thickness with many placement trials. In addition, I will be using the foil you recommended and it will need a fairly smooth and stable surface to adhere to. Currently with the test results I posted above, I am leaning towards the sodium Silica treatment of my existing inner shell.
In the meantime I found this as a candidate for the right adhesive:
https://www.amazon.com/3M-CP-25WB-10...0176M30Q&psc=1

[PeterH-350LE]

spraying the original insulation core with sodium silicate

[bkahler]

Peter, thanks for pursuing these options. 27 lbs is probably a little lighter than I was expecting to see. We can use that number as a baseline as we play with various options as we look for the ultimate fireproof cover

Thanks,!

Brad

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Peter, thanks for pursuing these options. 27 lbs is probably a little lighter than I was expecting to see. We can use that number as a baseline as we play with various options as we look for the ultimate fireproof cover

Thanks,!

Brad

Yeah, Brad, you know I am never shy nor afraid to try the odd thing in pursuit of finding solutions. Here is another discovery I made:
It appears that the cover itself is made of ABS and we know that nothing really wants to stick to ABS except some highly flammable MEK.
The inside of my cover has remnants of all these adhesives that do not stick: Silicon, Contact cement, extra strength Gorilla Glue, construction adhesive with all of them being flammable.
Sooo, I tried something crazy, JBWeld Extreme Heat for high temp metal engine parts. I sanded the ABS and applied the JBweld. It sticks like it became part of the ABS and now I have a 1 inch "metal" band around the inside cover that also will be covered by the aluminum foil. Will it help in case of a fire, not sure, but it certainly will not hurt.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by PeterH-350LE

Yeah, Brad, you know I am never shy nor afraid to try the odd thing in pursuit of finding solutions. Here is another discovery I made:
It appears that the cover itself is made of ABS and we know that nothing really wants to stick to ABS except some highly flammable MEK.
The inside of my cover has remnants of all these adhesives that do not stick: Silicon, Contact cement, extra strength Gorilla Glue, construction adhesive with all of them being flammable.
Sooo, I tried something crazy, JBWeld Extreme Heat for high temp metal engine parts. I sanded the ABS and applied the JBweld. It sticks like it became part of the ABS and now I have a 1 inch "metal" band around the inside cover that also will be covered by the aluminum foil. Will it help in case of a fire, not sure, but it certainly will not hurt.

Interesting. I suppose it depends on how well JBWeld dissipates heat. Like you suggested, I would think it couldn't hurt to use it.

That does make we wonder about possibly fabricating a metal flange that goes around the inside of the cover where it sits on the rubber doghouse opening seal.

If you're familiar with vinyl siding there is a piece called J channel.

Something like a J channel is what I'm thinking of. Between the J channel and some sort of fireproof blanket maybe it would be possible to keep the cover from melting and falling on top of the engine.

I need to look closer at the shape of the cover.

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by PeterH-350LE

spraying the original insulation core with sodium silicate

Even with the limited amount (8oz) I had, the results are already very promising. The flaky insulation hardened nicely. Now i need to wait until next weekend for the 2 additional gallons I ordered.
That would be ~$100.- for the sodium silicate and ~90.- Techflex Thermashield Adhesive Mats to make the existing doghouse cover more fire resistant. Labor is free, ask Brad!

[Boom Sounds]

I used some of this:

https://www.zircotec.com/zircoflex-h...zircoflex-iii/

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by Boom Sounds

I used some of this:

https://www.zircotec.com/zircoflex-h...zircoflex-iii/

• Easily Fixed in Place – Using mechanical fasteners or high temperature adhesives supplied seperately by Zircotec.
  

I would be interested in their high temperature adhesive. Any info on that?

[Boom Sounds]

Originally Posted by PeterH-350LE

• Easily Fixed in Place – Using mechanical fasteners or high temperature adhesives supplied seperately by Zircotec.
  

I would be interested in their high temperature adhesive. Any info on that?

Sure, I'll go down the pub with him soon for a few drinks so can ask him. He's a top fella and will always give honest and reliable feedback. Will be in touch.

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Peter, thanks for pursuing these options. 27 lbs is probably a little lighter than I was expecting to see. We can use that number as a baseline as we play with various options as we look for the ultimate fireproof cover

Thanks,!

Brad

Not sure, If I would be interested in anything in the 50 pound range, since removal already is very awkward

[Keyair]

I’m late to this thread.
I stripped my doghouse back to its bare components, and I confirm it’s just vacuum formed abs.
I added a layer of MLV for soundproofing, and then I plan to add a layer of Newtex Zetex+ that I believe is good to 2000f.
$50 for a piece that I think would be big enough, and USA made too.
This stuff:

Newtex ZetexPlus A-600 Vermiculite-Coated Fiberglass Fabric 2 Yards, High Temperature Cloth, Heat Shielding and Abrasion Resistant, Made in USA https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017A1T84U...ing=UTF8&psc=1

[guskmg]

Engine fires are north very common if fuel hoses are changed every five (5) years. However, we have not addressed the root cause and prevention.
1. Early detection ( over temp alarm).
2. Emergency mechanical fuel cutoff (valve and electrical lift pump shutoff).
3. Fire proof insulation to keep the fire contained.
4. Halogen extinguishing system.
Expensive? Yes, , Heavier? Yes. Safer? Yes (People involved in aviation will recognize the above.)
guskmg

[LM782]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Interesting. I suppose it depends on how well JBWeld dissipates heat. Like you suggested, I would think it couldn't hurt to use it.

That does make we wonder about possibly fabricating a metal flange that goes around the inside of the cover where it sits on the rubber doghouse opening seal.

If you're familiar with vinyl siding there is a piece called J channel.

Something like a J channel is what I'm thinking of. Between the J channel and some sort of fireproof blanket maybe it would be possible to keep the cover from melting and falling on top of the engine.

I need to look closer at the shape of the cover.

A little late, but FWIW another data point: our doghouse weighs 29 pounds.

I’m writing from my phone and don’t know how to add pictures. Our doghouse has some sort of channel riveted in place on three sides to keep the insulation layers in place.

Luis

[PeterH-350LE]

I noticed this sheet metal lined engine cover on a 310 for sale in Austin. Good solution if you have enough space above your air cleaner without adding all the weight?

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by PeterH-350LE

I noticed this sheet metal lined engine cover on a 310 for sale in Austin. Good solution if you have enough space above your air cleaner without adding all the weight?

I think the concept is good but I would suggest a slight change in the implementation. I think the added steel sheet needs to extend down and rest in the same area on the doghouse opening where the bottom edge of the plastic rests. This would keep the housing from falling down on top of the engine once the plastic had melted away.

I think anything that doesn't keep the doghouse cover in place is only going to buy a little extra time in a fire. Once the doghouse cover falls through the opening fire will start to engulf the interior.

I don't know enough about metals to know if aluminum plate will withstand engine fires. I'm thinking maybe 1/8" aluminum plate. It's not heavy but is definitely strong.

[PeterH-350LE]

melting points

Aluminum 1220 F
Aluminum Alloy 1240 F

Carbon Steel 2800 F
Stainless Steel2750 F

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by PeterH-350LE

melting points

Aluminum 1220 F
Aluminum Alloy 1240 F

Carbon Steel 2800 F
Stainless Steel2750 F

Doesn't look like aluminum would be a good choice

The internet says "A vehicle fire can generate heat upward of 1,500 degrees Fahrenheit."

[Air345Fly]

Aluminum or steel probably doesn't make much difference. You will still have the rubber gasket which will fail long before any metal will melt.
You need to get the fire out fast or everything will go up.