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Old 01-07-2017, 09:14 AM   #721
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1982 31' Airstream 310
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Heating hasn't been an issue at all Lance. Running the furnace and two small ceramic heaters. Open up the shades as soon as the sun comes up. No problem keeping the inside temp 68-70 degrees. The only thing that's noticeably cold is the floor. Good socks and slippers a must. I also run another ceramic heater in the back under the bed next to the water pump and FW tank. It blows strong enough to heat the pipes up to the bathroom. (Can do this because of the additional shore power cord). So we are plenty warm, very comfy inside.

I also installed shutoff valves near the pump on the lines that feed the shower. Those pipes would freeze up in a heartbeat in these temps. So its Navy showers here in Lyons but we had really nice facilities back in Cherry Creek.

Headed
Up to Fort Collins today to park at my sons house. Wish we had a few more days here because the temps are warming up and we havent really had a chance to hike around much because of the cold. We will be back though, this park is a gem.
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Old 01-07-2017, 01:59 PM   #722
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Lance....was that a punishment assignment in Siberia or a destination ???? Must be why vodka is so common there....Regards, Bob
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Old 01-07-2017, 03:09 PM   #723
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The only thing that's noticeably cold is the floor. Good socks and slippers a must.
Mike, the 74-76 Argosies had insulated floors. For some reason known only to Airstream by 1986 they stopped insulating the floor. I know around 1977 Airstream changed the way the floors were constructed so it's possible the lack of insulation started in 77.

Seems kinda stupid if you ask me to leave insulation out!

Glad to here you're enjoying your trip. I lived in the Denver area from 1978 to about 1991 and really liked the area. Of course a lot has changed since I lived there and I probably wouldn't like it as much now.

Have you been to Red Rocks during any of your trips?

Brad
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Old 01-07-2017, 08:29 PM   #724
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Hey Brad. Haven't been to Red Rocks yet. Definitely on our list of things to do, not sure if it will happen on this trip or not. My daughter says it's worth going even when there isn't an event going on, just to see the area and facilities.

On the insulation, while reading your thread on your Argosy I was surprised when you mentioned and referred to the floor insulation. I had no idea they insulated the floor back in those model years. Absolutely "0" in the 310. Frame/aluminum sheet/ then the 5/8" subfloor. Makes for some cold feet.
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Old 01-07-2017, 08:56 PM   #725
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BBRRRR!!! Yup, I thought my 5/8 engineered hardwood with a cork backing would help keep out the cold; nope, nada, zilch. Back to possibly thinking about laying down heating wire underneath it, but uncertain of long term durability. The last thing I'd want is an electrical short under the flooring, (what's that smell) but then couldn't complain about a cold floor I guess.

Red Rocks; my bucket list is one day watching Brit Floyd at Red Rocks. DT's favourite album; THE WALL.



PS Sorry for the Polar Vortex we Canucks sent down but every once in a while we must test our Weather of Mass Desfreezing.

Cheers
Tony
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Old 01-08-2017, 09:35 AM   #726
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Back on the road yesterday for a short drive up to Fort Collins, CO. Only about 45mins from Lyons. Parked now at my sons house. The cold spell finally broke, 42 degrees already this morning, YES! Looks like it will be warm for the next week or so!
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Old 01-08-2017, 11:09 AM   #727
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Hey Brad. Haven't been to Red Rocks yet. Definitely on our list of things to do, not sure if it will happen on this trip or not. My daughter says it's worth going even when there isn't an event going on, just to see the area and facilities.
I think I've seen about a half dozen shows at Red Rocks and enjoyed everyone of them. I'm sure you'll enjoy the heck out of it when you finally get the chance.

Quote:
On the insulation, while reading your thread on your Argosy I was surprised when you mentioned and referred to the floor insulation. I had no idea they insulated the floor back in those model years. Absolutely "0" in the 310. Frame/aluminum sheet/ then the 5/8" subfloor. Makes for some cold feet.
Maybe they were thinking the 1" air gap would provide enough insulation

Mine has 1" white Styrofoam board for insulation. When I replace the wood flooring I'm going to install some of the more modern foam board insulation in it's place.

I like warm floors....

Brad
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Old 01-08-2017, 11:35 AM   #728
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Bella's insulation was all replaced when the new frame/floor was put in...

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Old 01-08-2017, 11:46 AM   #729
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Martin, I wasn't aware the bulk of the floor was 2" thick! I have only exposed the first couple of feet of the floor near the cockpit and the 1"x2" steel tubing is laid flat in that area. Looking at your pictures the bulk of the floor is actually 2". That tells me I haven't bought near enough insulation


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Old 01-08-2017, 12:58 PM   #730
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So what is under the frame to hold the insulation in place? On the 310, a sheet of aluminum is placed on top of the frame and then the subfloor so no access to the cavities between the framing members.
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Old 01-08-2017, 01:06 PM   #731
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Colorado is the only place Ive ever been where I can sit outside with 8" of snow on the ground and me in a t- shirt totally comfortable!

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Old 01-08-2017, 01:10 PM   #732
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Quote:
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So what is under the frame to hold the insulation in place? On the 310, a sheet of aluminum is placed on top of the frame and then the subfloor so no access to the cavities between the framing members.
On Bella the aluminum belly pan is under the frame and the sub-floor on the top, and the insulation sits in the gaps between the the frame riggers, recreating a sandwich.....I never saw Bella's original frame so I have no idea if the current one is identical to the original though!
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Old 01-08-2017, 02:41 PM   #733
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You might be able to do something like this.

http://www.energyefficientsolutions....X29xoCPg7w_wcB
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Old 01-08-2017, 04:59 PM   #734
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On Bella the aluminum belly pan is under the frame and the sub-floor on the top, and the insulation sits in the gaps between the the frame riggers, recreating a sandwich.....I never saw Bella's original frame so I have no idea if the current one is identical to the original though!
What Martin describes is how my Argosy is built. I guess I need to look underneath Peanut to see if the aluminum skin is above or below the floor frame.

Mike, are you sure you have aluminum sheeting under the plywood? On the 86 345 I dismantled Airstream had used a galvanized steel sheet laid on top of the 1"x2" framework.


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Old 01-08-2017, 05:20 PM   #735
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Ive patched a few small areas of subfloor and it sure looked and felt like aluminum. Accidentally cut through it in a couple places. BUT, I can't say I'm 100% sure. In the old factory video on Airstream motorhome construction I believe they are building a single Rear axle rig, in that video they refer to it as aluminum over the frame work. It sure would have been nice if they AT LEAST installed it on the bottom of the frame, even if they left the voids empty. Much easier to retrofit with rigid insulation from the top.

The spray foam is an option from the bottom but boy I would probably make one hell of a mess outta the install. Would be a great deal of prep work I think to protect whatever you don't want the foam to adhere to. It could be done though. Maybe not as tough as I'm envisioning.....I know that in the past, if I'm in the SAME ROOM with a can of the spray foam it's all over me .....kinda like roofing mastic, if I look at it I'm covered in it. But...IT COULD BE DONE, and I think it would help a great deal with the floor. You could even do some combination of rigid and spray, where there is reasonable room to cut and fit rigid, go ahead and use it. For the areas header to access use the foam spray. Worth taking a closer look at. It may have more advantages than just heat transfer also, like reduced road noise. Would be nice if you could do it a little at a time too.
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Old 01-08-2017, 07:52 PM   #736
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My 1979 model has 1" x 2" framing creating a 1" thick frame. There is a thin aluminum sheet on the bottom side of the faming and then a piece of 1" fiberglass insulation laid continuously across the top of the frame , then the 5/8" plywood laid over that.. The plywood just crushed the insulation on the framing.
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:21 PM   #737
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My 1979 model has 1" x 2" framing creating a 1" thick frame. There is a thin aluminum sheet on the bottom side of the faming and then a piece of 1" fiberglass insulation laid continuously across the top of the frame , then the 5/8" plywood laid over that.. The plywood just crushed the insulation on the framing.
Hehehehehe, WTH we're thinking on that? Oh well, sounds they had it reasonably right on the Argosies. Makes the most sense to me anyway.
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:31 PM   #738
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The new Teak n Holly flooring is holding up well through these wild swings in temps and humidity. No signs at all of joint separation, neither sides nor butt joints. This is the first winter for the new floor. The only problem I've had with it is ME. I put a couple small scratches in it with the bottom of my old metal tool box. I was working on something, can't remember what, but I was tired and at the end of the day. I slid the heavy metal box a few inches ON THE NEW FLOOR and a sharp edge scratched it. El Stupido! I find as I'm getting a bit older that I really need to tell myself to STOP when I'm tired, I seem to make more mistakes these days when I'm over tired. Just can't push it like I used to...ahhh well

PS: Ive since bought a new heavy plastic tool box for the rig
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Old 01-09-2017, 01:39 PM   #739
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Hehehehehe, WTH we're thinking on that? Oh well, sounds they had it reasonably right on the Argosies. Makes the most sense to me anyway.
That's a typical form of construction for steel siding and roofs on pole buildings. The fiberglass insulation is draped over the sides and metal panels are fastened to the studs flattening (crushing) the insulation at the studs but the insulation then sort of billows into the open cavities between studs. Fast and cheap way to provide insulation. Not the best approach but like everything else, if you can do it faster even if it isn't better then do it the faster way

At some point between I would guess 82 to 86 Airstream changed from aluminum sheeting to galvanized. My guess would be because galvanized sheeting is probably cheaper than aluminum.

Brad
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Old 01-10-2017, 03:25 PM   #740
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Well fellas, we've been on the road now since Dec 16th and today, Im sorry to report, we've had our first fatality. My Keeler entry lock bit it today and yes it's the famous "broken ears" on the slide plate. BUT! Being the type of all together, always be prepared, think ahead, smart, and plan ahead DUDE that I am....I already ordered that part and have in my parts box........................................AT HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DAAAAAAAAAAAAMMIT!!!!!!!!
WHY I didn't put it on board with my other parts I have absolutely no idea..I remember thinking when I put it away, "now should this go on the rig or in the garage?" Feeling pretty damn stupid about that AND being the good Catholic boy I am, (ya right)thought it necessary to confess my sins to you AND THE AIRSTREAM GODS..oh well!

I could have one overnighted to me here in Fort Collins or just live with it using the dead bolt till we get home. I went ahead and took it apart and removed the plunger, reinstalled with the handles in place so we can get by.

Man though, why in the heck I didn't slip that onboard beats the hell outta me. Its been 37 years since my last confession and those are my sins. Father!

Weathers great, having mucho fun, gonna plan on being back home in Illinois by Feb 1st. So we have a few days left here in Colorado. We might head back down to Lyons before we leave, or head down to Clear Creek RV Park in Golden. We've stayed there a couple times in the past and its pretty cool!

http://www.cityofgolden.net/play/rec...creek-rv-park/

Adios fer now, hope everyone is getting off to a good start to 2017!!!!
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