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01-01-2018, 07:36 AM
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#21
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4 Rivet Member
1986 34.5' Airstream 345
Londonderry
, New Hampshire
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 287
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It is my understanding from science class a long time ago, that water only
freezes with great expanding force when it is pure. The expansion
results from the crystal formation as it transitions from liquid to solid.
When you mix in impurities like anti-freeze, the crystals to not form
the large blocks that expand and break things. The crystals are smaller
and form a slushy mass. Even when this slushy mass freezes solid
at lower temperatures it does not go through the expansion does
the damage.
Pete.
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01-01-2018, 07:51 AM
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#22
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Mantua
, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,062
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Good info, thanks
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01-01-2018, 08:13 AM
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#23
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Rivet Master
2015 30' FB FC Bunk
Ayer
, Massachusetts
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmclemore
It's designed to freeze but not expand.
Pat
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That's the way I understand it as well. It provides 'freeze protection' down to the stated temp rating, that doesn't mean it won't freeze , it just means it won't expand and damage the plumbing to that temp.
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01-01-2018, 09:14 AM
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#24
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4 Rivet Member
1986 34.5' Airstream 345
Londonderry
, New Hampshire
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneG
I bet if you tried to flex a plastic water line, you may crack it?
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The plastic pipes may well break even if they are dry because the plastic
itself gets more brittle as the temperature goes down. Also, as plastic
ages it gets more brittle and our's is 30 years old.
Pete.
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01-01-2018, 10:47 AM
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#25
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Rivet Master
2005 34' Classic S/O
2006 39' Land Yacht 396 XL
north blenheim
, New York
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,847
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Maybe the jug said "good to -5, not -50.
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01-01-2018, 10:57 AM
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#26
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Rivet Master
1994 30' Excella
Mississauga
, Ontario
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,239
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Hey Tony,
I hope the automotive anti freeze you use in toilet is not radiator antifreeze. That is toxic for the environment. That's why we use rv antifreeze.
Al
__________________
Al and Jean
TAC ON-3
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01-01-2018, 11:01 AM
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#27
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Rivet Master
2000 25' Safari
Davidson County
, NC Highlands County, FL
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,493
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Antifreeze's actual freeze point and the (burst point) protection it provides are two different temperatures. If you enlarge the photo of the bottle in the original post #1, you can see it says "Burst Protection to -50 F".
It's explained pretty well in this article:
https://www.jamestowndistributors.co....do?docId=1144
__________________
Alan
2014 Silverado LTZ 1500 Crew Cab 5.3L maximum trailering package
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01-01-2018, 11:24 AM
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#28
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2 Rivet Member
2011 23' FB Flying Cloud
2008 19' Safari SE
Brossard
, Quebec
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air345Fly
It is 7 degrees F here in New Hampshire and the antifreeze is frozen!
Attachment 301584
It was below 0 over night.
Pete.
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I check my plumbing antifreeze (-50C; -58F) this afternoon.
Outside temperature: -19C; -2F and it still very liquid this afternoon.
Last night temperature was: -25C; -13F and this morning OK too.
Papou
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01-07-2018, 10:43 AM
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#29
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4 Rivet Member
1986 34.5' Airstream 345
Londonderry
, New Hampshire
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 287
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It was -10 last night around here so I thought I would check that
container of antifreeze. I could still squeeze it and there was still
liquid mixed in with the slush. So it seems that it would be still
OK at these temperatures to prevent bursting of pipes or tanks.
Pete.
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01-07-2018, 10:54 AM
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#30
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Rivet Master
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia
, New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air345Fly
It was -10 last night around here so I thought I would check that
container of antifreeze. I could still squeeze it and there was still
liquid mixed in with the slush. So it seems that it would be still
OK at these temperatures to prevent bursting of pipes or tanks.
Pete.
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When I checked mine at -5 it was solid like a rock.
When I get a chance, I want to put some in a glass canning jar to see if it cracks
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01-07-2018, 11:26 AM
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#31
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Rivet Master
2000 25' Safari
Davidson County
, NC Highlands County, FL
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneG
When I checked mine at -5 it was solid like a rock.
When I get a chance, I want to put some in a glass canning jar to see if it cracks
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That article, using the web link is provided in post #27, says the antifreeze's burst protection is specifically tested /rated for use in a COPPER pipe. I doubt that either glass jars or plastic pipe will have the same needs for protection.
I would be interested to see how frozen antifreeze affects PEX pipe and fittings of various kinds. I assume the pipes would fare better than the fittings and valves.
Last September I winterized my 25' trailer at home using antifreeze, then opened the low point drains to let it drain. That trailer has been in low single digit temperatures and continuously below freezing for more than a week. In NC that is unusually cold. Hoping for the best, but won't know for sure until spring.
I'm in central FL in my 34', 70 miles south of Orlando. Three nights in a row it's been below freezing, but not cold enough to need winterizing (furnace running).
__________________
Alan
2014 Silverado LTZ 1500 Crew Cab 5.3L maximum trailering package
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01-07-2018, 11:45 AM
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#32
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Rivet Master
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia
, New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
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I am not very worried about the stuff freezing in my rig.
I put RV AF in my water tank and let it pump through all the plumbing.
Then I use compressed air from the shore water inlet and blast as much AF out of the system as I can.
So even if it does freeze, it will have some air space to expand into. (Hopefully)
This has worked for me for over 10 years in upstate NY
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02-06-2018, 12:58 PM
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#33
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,658
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So this morning it was -9*f here. I went out to the trailer to check the solar and batteries and saw an antifreeze icicle hanging from the kitchen faucet, which was left open after winterizing. I thought, well there's the answer. But when I went to pull it, I found it to be slushy...kinda like a finely minced snow cone. It just sorta fell apart in my gloved hand.
So it doesn't freeze...it just sort of "gels".
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
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02-06-2018, 03:12 PM
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#34
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Rivet Master
1982 31' Airstream 310
champaign
, Illinois
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,071
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Ive seen it debated on other threads but I never use antifreeze in my plumbing when I winterize. I do use it in the traps and in the waste tanks but that's all. I try my best to do a very very thorough job of blowing out the system with my compressor set at 55lbs. Ive never had a problem and we get sustained temps well below zero F here in central Il. Like I said, Ive read other threads debating whether one should use antifreeze even after using compressed air. But I for one have never had any plumbing issues using just compressed air for winterizing. FWIW
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02-06-2018, 04:12 PM
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#35
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayco
Ive seen it debated on other threads but I never use antifreeze in my plumbing when I winterize. I do use it in the traps and in the waste tanks but that's all. I try my best to do a very very thorough job of blowing out the system with my compressor set at 55lbs. Ive never had a problem and we get sustained temps well below zero F here in central Il. Like I said, Ive read other threads debating whether one should use antifreeze even after using compressed air. But I for one have never had any plumbing issues using just compressed air for winterizing. FWIW
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I did once many years ago with my old trailer. I blew it out thoroughly, but some water remained in shower faucet and cracked it. I have always blown and filled with antifreeze. No more issues over 24 winters.
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
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02-07-2018, 02:41 PM
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#36
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Rivet Master
1982 31' Airstream 310
champaign
, Illinois
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,071
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g
I did once many years ago with my old trailer. I blew it out thoroughly, but some water remained in shower faucet and cracked it. I have always blown and filled with antifreeze. No more issues over 24 winters.
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I'm sure it's safer to do both. But in my case, per my plumbing design, there has been no need. Knock on wood. Watch, after saying that I'll get a crack this year!
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