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Old 01-01-2018, 07:36 AM   #21
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It is my understanding from science class a long time ago, that water only
freezes with great expanding force when it is pure. The expansion
results from the crystal formation as it transitions from liquid to solid.

When you mix in impurities like anti-freeze, the crystals to not form
the large blocks that expand and break things. The crystals are smaller
and form a slushy mass. Even when this slushy mass freezes solid
at lower temperatures it does not go through the expansion does
the damage.

Pete.
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Old 01-01-2018, 07:51 AM   #22
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Good info, thanks
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Old 01-01-2018, 08:13 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmclemore View Post
It's designed to freeze but not expand.

Pat
That's the way I understand it as well. It provides 'freeze protection' down to the stated temp rating, that doesn't mean it won't freeze , it just means it won't expand and damage the plumbing to that temp.
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Old 01-01-2018, 09:14 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by WayneG View Post
I bet if you tried to flex a plastic water line, you may crack it?
The plastic pipes may well break even if they are dry because the plastic
itself gets more brittle as the temperature goes down. Also, as plastic
ages it gets more brittle and our's is 30 years old.

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Old 01-01-2018, 10:47 AM   #25
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Maybe the jug said "good to -5, not -50.
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Old 01-01-2018, 10:57 AM   #26
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Hey Tony,
I hope the automotive anti freeze you use in toilet is not radiator antifreeze. That is toxic for the environment. That's why we use rv antifreeze.
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Old 01-01-2018, 11:01 AM   #27
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Antifreeze's actual freeze point and the (burst point) protection it provides are two different temperatures. If you enlarge the photo of the bottle in the original post #1, you can see it says "Burst Protection to -50 F".

It's explained pretty well in this article:
https://www.jamestowndistributors.co....do?docId=1144
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Old 01-01-2018, 11:24 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air345Fly View Post
It is 7 degrees F here in New Hampshire and the antifreeze is frozen!
Attachment 301584
It was below 0 over night.

Pete.
I check my plumbing antifreeze (-50C; -58F) this afternoon.
Outside temperature: -19C; -2F and it still very liquid this afternoon.
Last night temperature was: -25C; -13F and this morning OK too.

Papou
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Old 01-07-2018, 10:43 AM   #29
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It was -10 last night around here so I thought I would check that
container of antifreeze. I could still squeeze it and there was still
liquid mixed in with the slush. So it seems that it would be still
OK at these temperatures to prevent bursting of pipes or tanks.

Pete.
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Old 01-07-2018, 10:54 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air345Fly View Post
It was -10 last night around here so I thought I would check that
container of antifreeze. I could still squeeze it and there was still
liquid mixed in with the slush. So it seems that it would be still
OK at these temperatures to prevent bursting of pipes or tanks.

Pete.
When I checked mine at -5 it was solid like a rock.
When I get a chance, I want to put some in a glass canning jar to see if it cracks
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Old 01-07-2018, 11:26 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneG View Post
When I checked mine at -5 it was solid like a rock.
When I get a chance, I want to put some in a glass canning jar to see if it cracks
That article, using the web link is provided in post #27, says the antifreeze's burst protection is specifically tested /rated for use in a COPPER pipe. I doubt that either glass jars or plastic pipe will have the same needs for protection.

I would be interested to see how frozen antifreeze affects PEX pipe and fittings of various kinds. I assume the pipes would fare better than the fittings and valves.

Last September I winterized my 25' trailer at home using antifreeze, then opened the low point drains to let it drain. That trailer has been in low single digit temperatures and continuously below freezing for more than a week. In NC that is unusually cold. Hoping for the best, but won't know for sure until spring.

I'm in central FL in my 34', 70 miles south of Orlando. Three nights in a row it's been below freezing, but not cold enough to need winterizing (furnace running).
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Old 01-07-2018, 11:45 AM   #32
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I am not very worried about the stuff freezing in my rig.
I put RV AF in my water tank and let it pump through all the plumbing.
Then I use compressed air from the shore water inlet and blast as much AF out of the system as I can.
So even if it does freeze, it will have some air space to expand into. (Hopefully)
This has worked for me for over 10 years in upstate NY
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Old 02-06-2018, 12:58 PM   #33
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So this morning it was -9*f here. I went out to the trailer to check the solar and batteries and saw an antifreeze icicle hanging from the kitchen faucet, which was left open after winterizing. I thought, well there's the answer. But when I went to pull it, I found it to be slushy...kinda like a finely minced snow cone. It just sorta fell apart in my gloved hand.

So it doesn't freeze...it just sort of "gels".
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Old 02-06-2018, 03:12 PM   #34
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Ive seen it debated on other threads but I never use antifreeze in my plumbing when I winterize. I do use it in the traps and in the waste tanks but that's all. I try my best to do a very very thorough job of blowing out the system with my compressor set at 55lbs. Ive never had a problem and we get sustained temps well below zero F here in central Il. Like I said, Ive read other threads debating whether one should use antifreeze even after using compressed air. But I for one have never had any plumbing issues using just compressed air for winterizing. FWIW
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Old 02-06-2018, 04:12 PM   #35
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Quote:
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Ive seen it debated on other threads but I never use antifreeze in my plumbing when I winterize. I do use it in the traps and in the waste tanks but that's all. I try my best to do a very very thorough job of blowing out the system with my compressor set at 55lbs. Ive never had a problem and we get sustained temps well below zero F here in central Il. Like I said, Ive read other threads debating whether one should use antifreeze even after using compressed air. But I for one have never had any plumbing issues using just compressed air for winterizing. FWIW
I did once many years ago with my old trailer. I blew it out thoroughly, but some water remained in shower faucet and cracked it. I have always blown and filled with antifreeze. No more issues over 24 winters.
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Old 02-07-2018, 02:41 PM   #36
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I did once many years ago with my old trailer. I blew it out thoroughly, but some water remained in shower faucet and cracked it. I have always blown and filled with antifreeze. No more issues over 24 winters.
I'm sure it's safer to do both. But in my case, per my plumbing design, there has been no need. Knock on wood. Watch, after saying that I'll get a crack this year!
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