EV comes closer......

[Boom Sounds]

GM's Crate Electric motor can replace any small block Chevy. The two core config in this example offers 720 HP and 630 pounds of torque.

https://www.reddit.com/r/electricveh...ace_any_small/

[idoco]

Originally Posted by Boom Sounds

GM's Crate Electric motor can replace any small block Chevy. The two core config in this example offers 720 HP and 630 pounds of torque.

https://www.reddit.com/r/electricveh...ace_any_small/

Electric motors aren't the roadblock to electric RV's and trucks. Trains and some mining/construction equipment already use electric motors. With diesel generators providing the power. (Running a diesel generator as a serial hybrid is more efficient than running a diesel motor as a sole propulsion source.)

Really comes down to batteries and to some extent charging infrastructure. How much energy can you package. How expensive to package this energy. How fast can they be recharged.

Tesla semis are now scheduled to start production and delivery in 2021. Will be interesting to see performance and what can be done with the platform.

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by idoco

Electric motors aren't the roadblock to electric RV's and trucks. Trains and some mining/construction equipment already use electric motors. With diesel generators providing the power. (Running a diesel generator as a serial hybrid is more efficient than running a diesel motor as a sole propulsion source.)

Really comes down to batteries and to some extent charging infrastructure. How much energy can you package. How expensive to package this energy. How fast can they be recharged.

Tesla semis are now scheduled to start production and delivery in 2021. Will be interesting to see performance and what can be done with the platform.

Agreed. The $130K quote I got to turn Bella EV was approx $10K of motor, the rest batteries/installation.

Its far more viable to turn an EV platform (like the Arrival Van) into a motorhome than a motorhome into an EV.

[Magnet18]

Originally Posted by martin300662

Agreed. The $130K quote I got to turn Bella EV was approx $10K of motor, the rest batteries/installation.

Its far more viable to turn an EV platform (like the Arrival Van) into a motorhome than a motorhome into an EV.

That van looks about argosy length... Time for another body swap?

[martin300662]

Nick (BoomSounds) and I have been kicking messages back and forth via WhatsApp around exactly that subject.

UK and EU (now they are separate) have grandfathered legislation that basically says if you passed your driving test before 1996 to can drive upto 7.5ton GVWR on a car license, post 96 you can only drive to 3.5ton (about 7000lb) without an additional classification on your license (which means the equivalent of drivers ed, and a practical test). This means to folks born post 1980 'want' motorhomes under 3.5ton. When Bella was registered the kind DVLA (DMV equivalent) allowed me to class her by actual weight (under 7000lb fully empty) and so her registration means anyone can drive her.

In broad terms she is a 'van' not a lorry/coach ('truck'). Arrival have managed the same trick with their 'van' (it is all composite), so they are more for building a 2021 motorhome than re-bodying a Classic. Far more viable is a body swap on a modern chassis, but also a frame swap to alumin(i)um and if the body/frame could be kept to 1.7ton it could drop onto a brand new single rear wheel 3.5ton Grafter



This would give a 30mpg diesel option, or (whilst replacing the frame) build the batteries into the void, use the heavier duty N75 chassis and a HyPer9 motor and accept it will be classed as a truck.

[martin300662]

Bella was at this stage 6 years too early.....

[Boom Sounds]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLaX3ZSKwaw

General Motors EV future reveal presentation

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by Boom Sounds

General Motors EV future reveal presentation

43 mins of 'filler' and 4 mins of content, just about sums up the EV market at the moment. Wish they would concentrate on getting the fundamentals to work rather than providing a 'ludicrous' mode for the video game generation.

[MikeyM]

EV conversions and oldtimers have been a good combination, but it especially makes sense for oldtimer motorhomes.

Usually the weight distribution of the batteries is a problem but I guess it won't be that much for a motorhome, especially when you can remove other systems such as LP for heating, and the generator for the ACs. I wonder how many KWH you need for some good distance and boondocking. charging up with solar panels.

I think a tesla motor would be the best bet, there will be even more model 3/y on the market than s/x, a percentage of them will crash and insurers will total them, tesla won't accept them back on the road.. so the motors will be looking for a new host.

I think the model 3/Y batteries will be not as expensive as the model S/X, as there will be less demand for it. the S/X battery could be parted out into 16 modules, for which there was a market.
The model 3/Y batteries aren't like that, 4 big modules. It can still be rearranged to be hidden inside the ladder frame of the P30 for collision protection.

I've seen the EVWest crate motor and similarly, I saw a youtube video of guy that converted a super duty in the same way, putting the batteries where the engine was, to replace the weight of the engine.

I know nothing, but seems to me it would save some weight and efforts in adaptation by replacing the rear axle so that you can place the tesla motor directly between the rear wheels?

[Daquenzer]

There is no doubt that EV's of some sort are on the rise. But this is very much in the infancy of motor travel; at least for a large portion of the country (geography). In fact I am building a new house and putting electricity in my new garage to be able to charge and EV or Hybrid. Plus it will be use for my Airstream. So I see it in the future. Not sure I'll live that long. Who knows.

The hurdles:
1) Charging stations.
2) Range
3) Initial Cost
4) Size of Vehicles;
5) Grid capacity.

Biden has proposed 500,000 charging stations in new bill. 500,000 is about right. Problem: Not all chargers have the same kind of attachment or the same capacity. There is no standardization in the market place at this point. So who, what, and how are those 500,000 charging stations going to be run? maintained? standardized? And can they be run at a profit? Not saying it can't happen, but I have zero confidence in the government to run anything all that well or that efficiently. So at some point private equity and private firms must come in and run the show. This is one place that private industry and government could step in and say, "Everyone must have the same type of chargers, etc."

Range. This is a bigger problem in rural areas. Every 2 weeks I make a 500 mile round trip to do appraisal work in an area. Plus the day I get there and the day I leave I do a number of inspections of homes. Put on say another 50 miles. If I had an EV I couldn't do it and get done what I need to get done. A 2 day trip would turn into a 3 day. Now if an EV came out with a 400 to 500 mile range it might work. This gets into charging. Chargers right now simply do not go fast enough.

Cost. The initial cost is an issue. Again, in Biden's plan he wants to subsidize EV's beyond the initial 200,000 per producer. Norway subsidizes EV's heavily. In fact the subsidy makes the EV cheaper than a gas vehicle. But they have to do that in order to get people to buy them. Then there is the question of, "Should government subsidize?" I personally think it is a bad idea because it creates inefficiency. Why become cost efficient if the government is going to bail us out? Did the government subsidize computers, cell phones, etc.? I could go on and on about this.

Size. Right now most EVs aren't all that big. They could never be family cars. They have to develop EVs at a reasonable cost that a family of 4 or 5 can at least transport with luggage etc. Just saying. I had a mini van from the time we had our 4th child. Should have had one sooner. How much will something like that cost? Can a family even begin to afford a large EV?

Grid capacity. One word: TEXAS. And then there are the rolling brown outs in California. Is that the future of the U.S?

There are lots of things to overcome. Not saying it can't happen. But I am hesitant to see government take the lead and push the industry. Some things only government can do; military. But most things they don't do well. If the government steps in, this process could take longer and cost more. The government has to be really smart about how they do this or it could be a disaster. I am skeptical.

I told my wife, I probably will not get an EV anytime soon, but I could see buying a hybrid.

[martin300662]

Interesting this thread was re-opened but at the same time Mr Musk is tweeting that the Tesla truck program delivery schedule is being negatively impacted by cell availability and reports come out that the smartest thing Tesla has done is use the new battery chemistries on longer range models but existing, less efficient chemistries on the normal range models.

As for 'weight is not critical for motorhomes' ! The quote I had to EV Bella involved adding 2.5t of battery weight to get the 300mile range I wanted. This means there are very few Argosy/Airstream motors that are eligible to swap and stay within their GVWR.

[bkahler]

This is just my opinion but I don't think mass produced wide ranging EVs are going to really become mainstream until something like this is available:



I really hope that's not the case but until some sort of technology becomes available that provides quick refueling/charging I don't see the masses going for an EV.

[LNBright]

Funny you mention Texas and California and grids....


I work for a state agency in Virginia, that is currently in the middle of transforming itself: currently known as the Dept of Mines, Minerals, and Energy, DMME (which had subdivisions such as Mines, Mined Land Reclamation, Gas and Oil, Mineral Mining, and Energy), we're now becoming the Dept of Energy. Starting to focus on things like power grid resiliency, solar farm sites, offshore wind. geothermal server sites, etc. etc.

The times ARE changing.

[Daquenzer]

One interesting solution to the charging problem are quick change battery stations. I saw a video on the Wall Street Journal where a company (I believe from Japan) has quick change batteries. You don’t buy the battery. You just buy the car. The batteries are then purchased at a location that you can exchange them. I watched it on video and it was pretty fascinating. It took 5 minutes to exchange the battery. Car rolls in, and the entire process is automated. The batteries are then re-charged while not in the vehicle.

Of course that would require a high degree of standardization among vehicles. But it would work. One of the reasons why I am hesitant about government pushing one direction in creating specific kinds of charging stations. It blocks innovation like this company in Japan. And maybe there is an option for both. But some brilliant person who thinks outside the box can come up with a solution.

[MikeyM]

I think tesla initially envisioned swapping batteries like that for their own cars, but stepped away from the concept. Doesn't mean it's bad though. the world just isn't ready yet. but it makes sense to swap batteries for purpose.

Still to carry 2.5t of batteries for a motorhome, I guess around 200kwh, that is quite a lot for 300 miles range. Sounds like those batteries will need a lot of cooling too!

Another option that doesn't show up so much anymore is the REX, range extender. a while back you'd see announcement vidoes on little trailers with extra batteries or a generator. A youtuber, James Klafehn, made a foamie travel trailer with complete 85 KWh tesla battery in it, and hooked it up to his Model X (also his RAV prime) to about double his range. while pulling 2.2t.

So poor aerodynamics is the main issue that's eating up the KWh, not the weight you carry or pull.

There are less weighty alternatives to electric batteries, in my city there is a startup working with formic acid. Basically a way to capture hydrogen in a non flammabe, non compressed or cooled liquid.
The production of it require CO2 and water. So is taking advantage of industry waste. The hydrogen is extracted during the drive and converted into electricity, used directly for the motor, but also other systems. They intend to offer this liquid at fuel stations.

10 gallons would be around 40 kwh of electricity, so scaling that up to a mix of Li-ion batteries and this liquid might mean less weight used.

And things could feed into eachother, a 3 way hybrid system could be set up where an electromotor does all the work of mechanically moving the motorhome, with power coming from li-ion battery, a generator, and a tank of formic acid. CO2 from the generator and from the formic acid conversion could then be harvested and compressed for later formic acid production when fuelling up and charging up at a station, camp ground or using solar.
Water can be harvested from AC use (water from air) or fresh water tank.

[Daquenzer]

Originally Posted by LNBright

Funny you mention Texas and California and grids....


I work for a state agency in Virginia, that is currently in the middle of transforming itself: currently known as the Dept of Mines, Minerals, and Energy, DMME (which had subdivisions such as Mines, Mined Land Reclamation, Gas and Oil, Mineral Mining, and Energy), we're now becoming the Dept of Energy. Starting to focus on things like power grid resiliency, solar farm sites, offshore wind. geothermal server sites, etc. etc.

The times ARE changing.

Yes they are. It would be fascinating to hear what direction that goes and how it develops; especially grid resiliency.

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by MikeyM

.......

Still to carry 2.5t of batteries for a motorhome, I guess around 200kwh, that is quite a lot for 300 miles range. Sounds like those batteries will need a lot of cooling too!

.......

Battery weight included the controllers, the cabling (not insignificant) and cooling - I didn't get more of a breakdown than that. But is was quite a away up an exponential curve where they were adding batteries to overcome the added weight of carrying the batteries. So power to drag the weight had overtaken aerodynamics as the major contributing use of energy.

Current battery powered EV's work best as city cars that need limited range, so small batteries that can be recharged quickly.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by martin300662

. . .
. . . adding batteries to overcome the added weight of carrying the batteries . . .
. . .

That phrase caught my eye.

Thanks for the recent discussion. Swapping out large standardized batteries in 5-minutes sounds interesting. Like refilling the gas tank.

[Boom Sounds]

Lots of developments for faster charging. The Megawatt Charging System (MCS) seems to be gaining pace as a standard.

The Megawatt Charging System (MCS) is a charging connector under development for large battery electric vehicles. The connector will be rated for charging at up to 4.5 megawatts (3,000 amps at 1,500 volts) direct current (DC). The MCS connector is expected to be the worldwide standard charging connector for large and medium commercial vehicles.

'The aim of the MCS group was to figure out how to do ultra high-power charging so that you could charge a very large semi within half an hour.'

https://electricautonomy.ca/2020/10/...cial-vehicles/
https://www.automotiveworld.com/arti...-power-sector/

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Boom Sounds

GM intend to sell crate EV engines to Hotrodders and other Classic enthusiasts.
Check this article out for info.
https://www.greencarcongress.com/202...-hummerev.html

Yep...Be careful BB wants we old 'Rodders' gone
The brightest light in the tunnel...just how big,(money) the hobby is.
Let 'em know if you're so inclined.👍

Bob
🇺🇸