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Old 04-26-2011, 11:44 PM   #341
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Very cool photo. I've been trying to figure out how much I can tow. I have an '82 280 w/454 gas engine. I have a 20 foot enclosed car hauler that I use to transport my ATVs. I'm guessing trailer, ATVs and equipment might be around 4000 pounds. What do you think?
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:10 AM   #342
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One of the first things I learned after signing up here on AS forums, is that the MHs have a tow capacity of about 2,000 Lbs, unless you significantly beef up the trailer hitch by adding more structural steel, welded further forward on the frame - in which case people get tow ratings of 10,000Lbs+
There are several threads that have pics of such beefed up towing equipment, including a few pics posted by KeyAir when he first got his new rig.
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Old 04-27-2011, 04:18 AM   #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiv8q View Post
One of the first things I learned after signing up here on AS forums, is that the MHs have a tow capacity of about 2,000 Lbs, unless you significantly beef up the trailer hitch by adding more structural steel, welded further forward on the frame - in which case people get tow ratings of 10,000Lbs+
There are several threads that have pics of such beefed up towing equipment, including a few pics posted by KeyAir when he first got his new rig.
Please nobody take this as an argument against strengthening their hitch it totally isn't and the hitch is totally rated for 2000 lbs. When I bought my 345 I knew the previous owner and one of the first things I noticed was the 2000lb tow limit in the owner's manual so I thought he must have upgraded the hitch. Then I started looking at threads on upgraded hitches and noticed mine looked just like all the before pictures, not anything like the afters. The thing is I know he use to pull a Saturn on a tow dolly with it all the time and when he took his family out West he pulled an early nineties Jeep Grand Cherokee on that same tow dolly to California and back to NC! I don't know how he got away with it for all those years but nothing even appears to be bent or warped! Again, I'm not suggesting anyone try this, a lot of people get hurt due to things like this every year and I'm sure he just didn't know better, after all he owned the most trusted machine shop on the East Coast. He could have built any hitch he wanted if he knew he was doing anything wrong.

streamquest, I had to get up and get up close to my computer screen to look at that pic but it's very cool! I would love to see my Airstream & V-nose trailer in a wind tunnel to see how the air flows over the trailer, every time I tow it I can't help but think it's killing the whole Airstream's aerodynamics! At least it is a V-nose. Sure would be nice to have my motorcycle hauler aerodynamic like the Airstream though...
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Old 04-27-2011, 04:25 AM   #344
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Even grainier now but much bigger, especially if you click on it... Very cool!

I follow the Long. Long Honeymoon blog and they did an episode on the Prevost tour buses, they are mighty sweet! The Airstream is really out of my league though, if it weren't so old I'd have never been able to afford it.
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Old 04-27-2011, 04:39 AM   #345
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Ok, I knew I had seen it... took me a sleepless night and some searching... But here is the real deal!
An Airstream Car transporter trailer!
Airstream 4U Superstar | made in Germany | export to United Kingdom...nothing is impossible...
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Old 04-27-2011, 06:39 AM   #346
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Very nice! I like all the Mercedes gull wing style doors to gain access. I imagine it's a tight squeeze getting a car loaded in there and there would be no way to open the doors or walk around it to tie it down without all those access panels... Of course they probably aren't hauling '59 Cadillacs and giant cars like that in it in Germany or the U.K. anyhow...
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Old 04-27-2011, 10:12 AM   #347
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John: I see you got your new seats and they look good. What was their story on the missed shipment?
I tried to order a shoulder belt model recliner so the granddaughter would be safer but they would not sell it as my unit did not have the shoulder belt as original equipment.
Is one of yours a recliner?
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Dan, were they Marine colored ?

when my new captains came from discount last week, we ordered ( Almond ).
and we received two dark blue, looks like, ( Marine ), color on their chart.
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Old 04-27-2011, 03:07 PM   #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyair View Post
Ok, I knew I had seen it... took me a sleepless night and some searching... But here is the real deal!
An Airstream Car transporter trailer!
Airstream 4U Superstar | made in Germany | export to United Kingdom...nothing is impossible...
Thank you, thank you, thank you....
How cool is that!!!

Fahrzeug-ID: 302
Vehicle ID

Baujahr: -
Build-year

Body / Total: 8,5 / 9,5 m
Self-explanitory. 26.4' / 31.16' (not 26' 4" / 31' 16")

TÜV: EU-Zulassun
TÜV is a European testing standard. Zulassen means "Allowance"

Dimension extern: 950 x 245 x 305 cm
External dimensions: 356¼" x 96½" x 120"

Leergewicht: 2.200 Kg
"empty" weight 4,840 Lbs

Einrichtung: Sonderbau
Arrangement: Special Build - or custom built

Glanzpoliert: ja
Hi-gloss polished: Yes

Zustand aussen: restauriert
Exterior condition: Restored

Zustand innen: teilmöbliert
Interior condition: Partly furnished

Standort: Hamburg / Germany
Location:
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Old 04-27-2011, 03:21 PM   #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MEANlowGREEN View Post
Please nobody take this as an argument against strengthening their hitch it totally isn't and the hitch is totally rated for 2000 lbs.
I am confused...
I don't understand how what I said might be understood by some as an argument against strengthening the hitch...

Sometimes I say thing, mean one thing, and people totally take it a completely different way, and it confuses me how it is that this happens so often.

Sorry if it seemed like I was saying NOT to strengthen the hitch - what I meant to do was answer the previous post, that was asking what the tow capacity was - and at the same time convey that the tow capacity can easily be upgraded, and that many have done so, and posted the details of what they have done on threads here...

Please forgive me if anyone thought I meant anything different from that.
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Old 04-27-2011, 06:56 PM   #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiv8q View Post
I am confused...
I don't understand how what I said might be understood by some as an argument against strengthening the hitch...

Sometimes I say thing, mean one thing, and people totally take it a completely different way, and it confuses me how it is that this happens so often.

Sorry if it seemed like I was saying NOT to strengthen the hitch - what I meant to do was answer the previous post, that was asking what the tow capacity was - and at the same time convey that the tow capacity can easily be upgraded, and that many have done so, and posted the details of what they have done on threads here...

Please forgive me if anyone thought I meant anything different from that.
Nobody did confuse your statement as an argument against strengthening an Airstream hitch(at least I sure didn't). I just didn't want anyone to confuse my statement as an argument against strengthening an Airstream hitch. I was just wanting to say I was surprised my hitch had never been strengthened yet survived being grossly overloaded for thousands of miles of cross country towing from sea to shining sea but in saying that I was afraid someone would think I was making the argument that hitch strengthening wasn't necessary and that is the last thing I wanted to do. Make more sense now? I was just making conversation, not correcting or arguing with anyone.
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:59 PM   #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MEANlowGREEN View Post
Please nobody take this as an argument against strengthening their hitch it totally isn't and the hitch is totally rated for 2000 lbs. When I bought my 345 I knew the previous owner and one of the first things I noticed was the 2000lb tow limit in the owner's manual so I thought he must have upgraded the hitch. Then I started looking at threads on upgraded hitches and noticed mine looked just like all the before pictures, not anything like the afters. The thing is I know he use to pull a Saturn on a tow dolly with it all the time and when he took his family out West he pulled an early nineties Jeep Grand Cherokee on that same tow dolly to California and back to NC! I don't know how he got away with it for all those years but nothing even appears to be bent or warped! Again, I'm not suggesting anyone try this, a lot of people get hurt due to things like this every year and I'm sure he just didn't know better, after all he owned the most trusted machine shop on the East Coast. He could have built any hitch he wanted if he knew he was doing anything wrong.

streamquest, I had to get up and get up close to my computer screen to look at that pic but it's very cool! I would love to see my Airstream & V-nose trailer in a wind tunnel to see how the air flows over the trailer, every time I tow it I can't help but think it's killing the whole Airstream's aerodynamics! At least it is a V-nose. Sure would be nice to have my motorcycle hauler aerodynamic like the Airstream though...
Hi MEANlow,

Among the crazy things that I have considered getting involved with (and I do find myself looking at a lot of crazy things) was a Prevost H3-60 bus. If you're not familiar with that model, check it out. (As a participant of THIS thread, you are already pre-qualified as some sort of a crazy.) In any case, it is basically a 60' long articulated bus.

While looking at it, I did a little reading about "long vehicle" aerodynamics.

Although the continuity of the sides and roof surfaces is quite important in reducing drag, what really stuck with me was the importance of bringing that disrupted airflow "back together" at the rear of the bus, or truck, or whatever it is, that is being forced through the wind. The styling of streamlined vehicles from the Art Deco and Machine Age periods displays a better understanding of this than what you see in most present day vehicles. Obviously, things today are built to the maximum permitted height/width/length in order to maximize volume at the expense of aerodynamics. I wouldn't be surprised to see that change as the price of fuel continues to rise.

So now to the point. Since you are towing a V-nose trailer behind a moho that presents a bigger frontal area to the wind than the trailer itself (as opposed to say a car), I wonder if your rig wouldn't do better in the wind tunnel if you hooked up your trailer backwards? Just a CRAZY thought!!

DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!!!
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Old 04-27-2011, 11:58 PM   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MEANlowGREEN View Post
Nobody did confuse your statement as an argument against strengthening an Airstream hitch(at least I sure didn't). I just didn't want anyone to confuse my statement as an argument against strengthening an Airstream hitch. I was just wanting to say I was surprised my hitch had never been strengthened yet survived being grossly overloaded for thousands of miles of cross country towing from sea to shining sea but in saying that I was afraid someone would think I was making the argument that hitch strengthening wasn't necessary and that is the last thing I wanted to do. Make more sense now? I was just making conversation, not correcting or arguing with anyone.
Ooohhoho...
You didn't want anyone to think that just because YOUR PO did it, anyone can safely do it...
Yeah - now it all makes sense to me. Sorry for my confusion, and yeah - I see it now:
"I don't want anyone to confuse this" - meaning "the following" - " as an argument against (dot, dot, dot)"
Thanks for clearing that up.
As some of you know - although I appear to have total command of the English language - I grew up in Denmark, and learned English from my Father who was American, and my Mother was Danish.
We (my brother and I) always spoke Danish to my Mom and English to my Dad - but still to this day, after growing up bi-lingual, and having lived in the US for 22 years since 1989, I sometimes speak with "reverse syntax", or don't fully understand the fluctuation of voice, or some forms of communicating, such as "indirect communication" - just certain things make me stumble, sometimes, and apparently this one was one of them.
So - thanks for clearing that up. Sorry that I may have cause confusion.

All that being as it is - I totally concur, based on what I have learned nere: If you are going to tow anything more than a bicycle trailer - UPGRADE THE HITCH!!!

- and now to something completely different!
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:18 AM   #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiv8q View Post
Ooohhoho...
You didn't want anyone to think that just because YOUR PO did it, anyone can safely do it...
Yeah - now it all makes sense to me. Sorry for my confusion, and yeah - I see it now:
"I don't want anyone to confuse this" - meaning "the following" - " as an argument against (dot, dot, dot)"
Thanks for clearing that up.
As some of you know - although I appear to have total command of the English language - I grew up in Denmark, and learned English from my Father who was American, and my Mother was Danish.
We (my brother and I) always spoke Danish to my Mom and English to my Dad - but still to this day, after growing up bi-lingual, and having lived in the US for 22 years since 1989, I sometimes speak with "reverse syntax", or don't fully understand the fluctuation of voice, or some forms of communicating, such as "indirect communication" - just certain things make me stumble, sometimes, and apparently this one was one of them.
So - thanks for clearing that up. Sorry that I may have cause confusion.

All that being as it is - I totally concur, based on what I have learned nere: If you are going to tow anything more than a bicycle trailer - UPGRADE THE HITCH!!!

- and now to something completely different!
Just thinking about these hitches I wonder if the weakness may be in tongue weight capacity. Towing a car on the ground or on a dolly doesn't put a lot of weight on the tongue just the push/pull effort. Putting a trailer with a few hundred pounds of leveraged weight on the hitch is a different story. In one of the pictures it looks like the distortion of the cross member is from weight twisting the hitch down rather than accelerating or stopping. Again I'm not making any claims just thinking out loud.

Cheers, Dan
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Old 04-28-2011, 02:22 AM   #354
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I have already lost a tow car to a 'superior' braking system...I can tell you that a reinforced hitch is a piece of mind you ought to carry with you,,,how many toads fall under that limit...??? My rig is about 17K lbs loaded, and a flat tow(currently a '95 Nissan Maxima) is about 3800 lbs when loaded) adds up to a lot of weight...the new reinforcement allows for 75-10 K towing...the 454 doesn't much like it on inclines. and the brakes don't much like it on the downhill side(tranny included), but I'm working on it...the best toad I have had was a '96 Geo Tracker...a two people/one dog vehicle, but a sure toad---4WD, Automatic, and like most things I relate to(except my wife), cosmetically challenged...but functional. We use a Roadmaster tow system, which applies pull weight, but no hitch weight...I believe that Blue Ox also has a similar hook-up. The tranny, going down hill, will jump to 2nd gear voluntarily at about 3300rpm, and that's a pucker factor on 7% grades if you aren't aware it's gonna happen...the 15-20 mph climb speed is one of those things in which patience has a virtue...still, wouldn't trade it for the world...ok, ok,...MAYBE...m
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Old 04-28-2011, 03:03 AM   #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScrapIrony-2 View Post

<creative snipping>
the 454 doesn't much like it on inclines. and the brakes don't much like it on the downhill side(tranny included)

<more cutting>

The tranny, going down hill, will jump to 2nd gear voluntarily at about 3300rpm, and that's a pucker factor on 7% grades if you aren't aware it's gonna happen...

<and the kicker...:>

the 15-20 mph climb speed is one of those things in which patience has a virtue...still, wouldn't trade it for the world...ok, ok,...MAYBE...m
OUCH!

Makes me wonder how my 360 - or - 318 - not sure which - on our 1978 Dodge Sportsman, 21' Class-C Mobile Traveler will fare, with the added (in addition to the original tank) 80gal water tank (hooked up in tandem with the original 10 gal), the added 5,500Watt Onan on the rear shelf, the added spare fuel, water, and propane tanks - and ...
and...
and...
(sigh)
towing the 3,800Lb Jeep Wrangler...
(gulp)
on a straight tow-bar with no dinghy brake system - just the steel and a flat-4 wire and the chains between the MoHo and the Jeep...

I'm starting to get a bit concerned...
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Old 04-28-2011, 04:08 AM   #356
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Hi MEANlow,

Among the crazy things that I have considered getting involved with (and I do find myself looking at a lot of crazy things) was a Prevost H3-60 bus. If you're not familiar with that model, check it out. (As a participant of THIS thread, you are already pre-qualified as some sort of a crazy.) In any case, it is basically a 60' long articulated bus.

While looking at it, I did a little reading about "long vehicle" aerodynamics.

Although the continuity of the sides and roof surfaces is quite important in reducing drag, what really stuck with me was the importance of bringing that disrupted airflow "back together" at the rear of the bus, or truck, or whatever it is, that is being forced through the wind. The styling of streamlined vehicles from the Art Deco and Machine Age periods displays a better understanding of this than what you see in most present day vehicles. Obviously, things today are built to the maximum permitted height/width/length in order to maximize volume at the expense of aerodynamics. I wouldn't be surprised to see that change as the price of fuel continues to rise.

So now to the point. Since you are towing a V-nose trailer behind a moho that presents a bigger frontal area to the wind than the trailer itself (as opposed to say a car), I wonder if your rig wouldn't do better in the wind tunnel if you hooked up your trailer backwards? Just a CRAZY thought!!

DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!!!
It would probably do better! I dunno if the V-nose helps much behind the Airstream, didn't feel like it helped behind the pick-up. My father insisted we could tow it home 100 miles from the foothills of NC with his '93 Nissan, I was going to borrow my cousin's truck... The Nissan burned a whole tank of gas on the way back and I was sure the auto trans was going to burn up too, the trailer was light and empty but pushing a bunch of air. I have a little S10, I knew I didn't wanna try with that but he thought the Nissan was up to the challenge. In the end I guess it was but boy oh boy I just knew that trailer would kill his tranny! He finally admitted that maybe that wasn't a great idea a few days later
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Old 04-28-2011, 04:29 AM   #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiv8q View Post
Ooohhoho...
You didn't want anyone to think that just because YOUR PO did it, anyone can safely do it...
Yeah - now it all makes sense to me. Sorry for my confusion, and yeah - I see it now:
"I don't want anyone to confuse this" - meaning "the following" - " as an argument against (dot, dot, dot)"
Thanks for clearing that up.
As some of you know - although I appear to have total command of the English language - I grew up in Denmark, and learned English from my Father who was American, and my Mother was Danish.
We (my brother and I) always spoke Danish to my Mom and English to my Dad - but still to this day, after growing up bi-lingual, and having lived in the US for 22 years since 1989, I sometimes speak with "reverse syntax", or don't fully understand the fluctuation of voice, or some forms of communicating, such as "indirect communication" - just certain things make me stumble, sometimes, and apparently this one was one of them.
So - thanks for clearing that up. Sorry that I may have cause confusion.

All that being as it is - I totally concur, based on what I have learned nere: If you are going to tow anything more than a bicycle trailer - UPGRADE THE HITCH!!!

- and now to something completely different!
See there, I have been speaking English my whole life and I'm the only one confusing people on here, the word "but" would have made the world of difference in my statement. I realized that after I posted it "but" I didn't think about it making you think I thought you were arguing against hitch strengthening It's all good in the hood though, no worries here, if you are going to tow strengthen your hitch!!!

My same boss had a GMC dually with a billet aluminum draw bar in the hitch, the shop's delivery boy was pulling a dual axle flat bed trailer up I-40 loaded with a multi-million dollar, freshly completed, fully automated CNC machine for installing computer chips onto circuit boards for the then Tyco AAMP Corporation. We had spent months machining all the parts, AAMP had employees whose full-time job was working in our shop wiring these machines and programming the computer controlled aspects, we had countless hours in machining the parts, assembling the machine, testing, fixing and testing and testing again until everything worked perfectly. He was delivering the machine to the manufacturing plant when the draw bar snapped. The trailer crossed the median hitting a car head on. The car flipped but luckily there wasn't a huge pile up and there were no serious injuries. Didn't stop the injured person from suing the company though and the machine and trailer were both total losses. Bad things can happen in the blink of an eye and without warning. As bad as that was it could have been much worse. That poor delivery boy ended up in court in the law suit too. He was a wreck. Nobody ever talked about how the case ended, I'm sure it was expensive for my boss though.
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Old 04-28-2011, 02:37 PM   #358
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To pull a Toad legally and safely, I need:
Good quality Tow bar.... $500
Base Plate..... $500
Brake Buddy, or similar supplemental braking system... $1200
Lighting kit or mods to the Toad... $?

My planned trips are varied, and want th option of taking my 1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9LTD, which is "about 5000lb" and my 1984 Mercedes Diesel much lighter, or whatever I want.

The more I read, and the more I see, the more I am sure I am just gonna get a double axle 7500lb or 10,000lb rated Flatbed.
I have looked at good ones for under $2000 used, with good brakes, and all the goodies.
Unless I am missing something here it makes far more sense.....
Input?
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Old 04-28-2011, 02:48 PM   #359
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The big problem with the car trailer is what do you do with it when you get to the destination. You will need a trailer hitch on the loaded vehicle to move the trailer to storage at most cg's. To big to handle manually for any distance.
Dave

The more I read, and the more I see, the more I am sure I am just gonna get a double axle 7500lb or 10,000lb rated Flatbed.
I have looked at good ones for under $2000 used, with good brakes, and all the goodies.
Unless I am missing something here it makes far more sense.....
Input?[/QUOTE]
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Old 04-28-2011, 03:28 PM   #360
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The big problem with the car trailer is what do you do with it when you get to the destination.
[/QUOTE]

That's the big thing. If you only camp in large resorts with long pull through sites it's not an issue but that's not as easy as you think. I have this same problem with my motorcycle trailer and it's just 6X12 Most camp grounds will provide you with a place to park it but it's a hassle. I love pull through sites! Then there is the added weight of pulling a trailer vs. using a tow bar. My 454 loves gas and the harder it works naturally the more it drinks... In the end there are pros and cons to any style of towing, you're the only one who can make the decision for you but getting as much info as possible from others will help in that decision.
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