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Old 12-24-2015, 06:06 AM   #1
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Classic 345 Generator

What is your Generator no load voltage and the voltage when full load is applied (both air conditioner compressors running)?
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Old 12-24-2015, 06:11 AM   #2
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usually in the green range, except when the compressor kicks in.
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Old 12-24-2015, 07:05 AM   #3
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My old 84 310 had a Kohler generator and using a Kill-A-Watt plugged into an outlet the voltage would be about 118 with no load and as soon as an air conditioner was started it would drop down to 107.

I replaced the voltage regulator on the Kohler and no load voltage would be about 121 and with an air conditioner running it would be about 118.
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Old 12-24-2015, 07:10 AM   #4
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Thanks for the replies. My voltage is no load 113 and will drop too low with both air conditioners. I probably have to change voltage regulators but with a price of over $200 I would hope there is a way to test the regulator to assure it is defective. bkahler how did you determine it was the voltage regulator.
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Old 12-24-2015, 07:23 AM   #5
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If your's is a Kohler there are adjustments for idle speed which affects mainly frequency and governor speed which mainly affects recovery when placed under a load. The regulator is what actually controls the voltage.

I played with the various settings prior to replacing the voltage regulator with no real change so I opted for a replacement regulator. I didn't buy a new one as I found one on ebay really cheap that also came with a bunch of other parts so I bought that hoping it would solve the problem and it did.

Onan generators have similar adjustments but the Onan's that I have, have not had issues with voltage or frequency so I've not had to work on them.

You don't want to run your air conditioners at that low a voltage as it's extremely hard on them. I would avoid running them until you have the voltage situation corrected.
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Old 12-24-2015, 07:52 AM   #6
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I have used my Kill-A-Watt meter to adjust HZ to spec. I also used it to measure the voltage along with several multi-meters to confirm. I have the Kohler, the B-233833 voltage regulator has been replaced with part number 228675. Right now there is only one on e-bay for $300. Did you remove the generator to replace the voltage regulator or is there sufficient room to leave it in the motorhome?
Just for reference I used a Craftsman Professional multi-meter to set the HZ initially and found the readings to be several hundred HZ due to noise and interference, when I switched to the Kill-A Watt it eliminated all of the noise and interference and I obtained proper readings.
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Old 12-24-2015, 08:17 AM   #7
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Gunter,

Just FYI, at idle (no load) the frequency can be 1 possibly 2 hertz high without causing any problems. Under load your frequency should not drop below about 59 hertz.

As for replacing the regulator I had already mounted my generator on drawer slides so I was able to just slide the drawer open and make the change. You have to remove the electrical cover on the right hand end of the generator. I don't remember how difficult that would be with the generator in the enclosure but I think it might be a little on the frustrating side.

If you don't have your generator on drawer slides now would be a great time to do so. It's not difficult to do and is one of the better mods I made to the coach.

The voltage regulator itself was mounted with two small screws and if I remember right had wires with spade push on style crimp connectors. I also think the regulator I ended up installing was an upgraded version of what was originally on the generator and mounted slightly different.

The regulator you're looking for has been superseded to 228675. Cheapest I found was $379 although there was the one you mentioned for $300 on ebay. The one on ebay looks to be physically larger than the one I replaced on mine which only means they are consolidating and found units for larger generators will work on the smaller ones. It will likely also mount on the outside of the generator enclosure.

Brad
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Old 12-25-2015, 09:27 AM   #8
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After communicating with bkahler I decided to pull the generator from the Motorhome and purchase and install a new voltage regulator with the belief that this will solve my low voltage. I will start cleaning up and repainting as necessary, I have already removed some panels on the generator and have prepped the opening in the Motorhome for new sound proofing. I am contemplating adding slides but I may slot the bottom tray to allow the generator to slide out without having to remove the muffler. It will probably require fastening a removable plate to the bottom tray to cover the slot to provide proper support. I have looked at several places for the slides but have not found ones that are rated at 500 lbs. and are similar to those installed by bkahler and keyair I am open for suggestions.
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Old 12-25-2015, 10:37 AM   #9
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Gunter did you not look at the slides from McMaster Carr? I thought I had sent the link, maybe I forgot. They have slides rated at 500 lbs in various lengths with locks.

Disconnecting the muffler each time you want to open the drawer can be a pain. I had thought about doing something like you're suggesting but now that 310 is gone it's not something I have to worry about

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Old 12-25-2015, 12:08 PM   #10
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I believe you used a base mount (has a lip going in opposite direction, the McMaster with that configuration is only rated at maximum 145 lbs for the pair. Did you use a side mount and made your own L brackets? I checked McMaster, MCS and Grainger. Apparently I overlooked or couldn't find the ones you used. They also had minimum order quantities on some, for example 4 pairs.
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Old 12-25-2015, 01:02 PM   #11
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Gunter,

I used side mount slides. Bottom mount slides would be massive and costly. I just added some angle to the sides of tray and bolted the slides to them.

Here is a link to the High-Capacity Side-Mount Drawer Slides that I bought for my Argosy. The ones I used on the 310 look like these but only extended 2/3 instead of full.

This is the only picture I have that really shows the detail of how I did the drawer slides.
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Old 12-25-2015, 02:13 PM   #12
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I understand now what you did and use. Thanks for the picture. Do you believe the option of having the slide and how many times you and keyair have used yours offsets the costs of the slides? I am trying to justify the purchase.
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Old 12-25-2015, 02:51 PM   #13
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I cannot remember how long mine were... will have to look up my thread in a min, but I paid a great price for them...

Look at these..
1 Pair Accuride 9301 18" to 22" Drawer 500 lb Full Extension 4" Over Extension | eBay
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Old 12-25-2015, 03:01 PM   #14
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Couldn't see the size I used, but it might be in my oil leak thread.
Gunter, I suggest you check you genset for the common oil leak from the oil fill pipe/crankcase joint.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f448...eak-64381.html

While we are on this subject, I saw that an electronic ignition/point eliminator kits is/was available for this unit... Be interested to know more about that.

Also, gunter, could you post a few pics of your carb/coil area... i have some loose weird wires and pipes I would like to find a home for and need to compare!
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Old 12-25-2015, 03:19 PM   #15
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Here's the installation manual for the 9301 drawer slides. These are the same slides I bought to use in my Argosy.

On my 310 I didn't get full extension slides and regretted it although even 2/3 open was sure great to work with. These slides appear to be 20" slides. I had two issues with the 2/3 opening slides that I used. The first was it was still a little difficult to get to the back side of the generator and second if I wanted to remove the generator I had to be careful how close I came with the pallet forks to the side of coach.

Your Kohler generator is 21-1/2" wide so I'd say these slides will be almost full extension and would probably work just fine, especially at that price!

I don't see the slide locks but that doesn't mean they aren't there. Even if the locks aren't present there are many ways to make sure the drawer doesn't try to slide close inadvertently.


Brad
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Old 12-25-2015, 03:21 PM   #16
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Bagan searching for the ignition system, and didn't find it... but I did find this! site that shows you how to convert any engine, and specifically mentions the K582.
Ignition Solutions for Small Engines and Garden Pulling Tractors
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Old 12-25-2015, 03:34 PM   #17
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Prior to the 310 going to it's new home I made a couple of the electrical mods to the generator that I feel are worth passing on.

The fuel pump is connected directly to the coil of the generator so when the ignition is on so is the fuel pump. The problem with this arrangement is the fuel pump (especially the original) has a fairly high current draw which drops the voltage at the coil when you're trying to start. Lower voltage at the coil means weaker spark which makes it harder to get the generator to start.

I had been trying to diagnose a hard start issue on the Kohler and checked the voltage at the coil while trying to start and it was between 9 & 10 vdc. Not enough voltage for a decent spark at the plugs. As a test I disconnected the fuel pump from the coil and hot wired it at the hot side of the starter solenoid so it ran all the time. Voltage at the coil was now 12 vdc and it started much faster.

So what I did was disconnect the feed wire at the pump and connected it to a relay. Now when you try to start the generator the relay energizes. I then took a heavy gauge wire and connected it to the hot side of the starter solenoid (the large battery cable connects to this terminal) and ran it to a Normally Open contact on the relay. The other side of the contact then went to the fuel pump. Now when you start/run the generator the relay energizes which turns on the fuel pump. This means there is no voltage drop at the ignition coil which helps starting.

The second thing I did was to add a push button in the generator compartment that you could push causing the relay to energize and runs the fuel pump. This allows you to fill the fuel bowl on the carburetor prior to starting the generator which means you don't have to crank the generator very long to get it to start. Prior to doing this I had to crank the generator long enough to get fuel to fill the carburetor bowl before the generator had fuel to start.

Less wear and tear on the generator starter this way. Which is not easy or cheap to change by the way!

I'll see if I took any pictures and I'll post them if I find them.


Brad
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Old 12-25-2015, 03:55 PM   #18
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That's a great mod, and I too have experienced that 9v power drop. This is now on my list.
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Old 12-25-2015, 04:07 PM   #19
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I just checked my 26" drawer slides and after comparing mine to the ones in the auction I believe the auction slides are 18" slides not 20" as I hinted at previously.

Here's a picture of my 26" slides. You can see the narrowest extension is 1" shorter than the full extension dimension.
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The auction slides have 17" on the narrow extension which is why I think they are 18" slides. So with the Kohler being 21-1/2" means you'll be 3-1/2" from having the entire genset outside of the compartment.

I was wrong, my slides are 9308 slides. The difference being my slides have locks to keep them open or closed. The auctions slides do not.
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Old 12-25-2015, 04:37 PM   #20
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Here's a couple of pictures of the switch and relay installation. I didn't get fancy as I was working under a time crunch. When the push button energizes the pump it also back feeds power to the ignition coil and ignition points. This isn't really a problem but if you're concerned about something like that you can use a push button that has a set of Normally Open and a set of Normally Closed contacts. The close contacts could be put in the wire from the relay coil to the ignition coil. When you push the button the contacts would open and no power would go to the ignition system.

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On the oil pipe mod I had to notch the tray a little to clear the Tee so I added a little support to keep the tray from sagging. I think the real problem is the generator isolation mounts were probably sagging causing the pipe to sit lower than it really should be.
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Here's a couple of pictures of the slide mounting. I just used metal that I had on hand. There are probably a variety of other ways the slides could be mounted as well. This arrangement worked well for me.
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If you look closely at the two pictures above you'll see a bolt head in each corner of the tray. The holes were the existing holes where the tray originally bolted to the platform. I used bolts passing through the tray into the platform to keep the generator in place. In order to not put stress on the slides I slid spacers between the tray and the platform so when the bolts were tightened the slides weren't stressed.

By the way, it wasn't always the oily mess you see in the pictures. Back in 2007 when I added the drawer slides I cleaned up the oily mess and it was spotless inside the compartment. That oily mess occurred between 2007 and 2012 prior to me making the mod in to the oil fill pipe. Steve's mod to the pipe is well worth doing while you have easy access to everything!

Brad
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