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Old 11-10-2016, 10:25 AM   #1
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1981 28' Airstream 280
Pierre , South Dakota
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Building a pile of parts for my 1981 Excella 28...

So I've saved a small pile of money, looking to turn it into a pile of parts, then disappear that pile into the 28 footer for something that drives and makes noise. I've greatly benefitted from reading and conversing with the Airstream Magicians, here at Airforums! At the moment, the 454 is coming out to make way for a 502 crate engine from GM.

Today's question comes after searching the board and coming up empty handed. Has anyone found a source they would recommend for an aluminum core radiator to keep the 502 powerplant cool?

Thanks!
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Old 11-10-2016, 02:49 PM   #2
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I'm not convinced you would need an aluminum radiator. I recently had the radiator in Peanut re-cored with a core that had an extra row and more fins per inch. On the first start up after installing the radiator and letting the engine idle for quite some time it barely got hot enough to open the thermostat.

I bet if you just re-cored your radiator you won't have any problems cooling your 502, especially if you have the correct fan clutch on a 7-blade fan.

If yours is the vertical style of rdiator I can probably find the radiator core part number that was used in Peanuts re-core.

Brad
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Old 11-10-2016, 06:07 PM   #3
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Thanks, Brad! Before parking my rig, I had the radiator recored. That was many years ago, so who knows what corrosion will be in there. It's taller than it is wide, so I think that's what you were asking, a vertical radiator or not? The suggestion was I source an aluminum rad, but that probably because we are based in Vegas. It's warm, here. LOL. I will be relocating to South Dakota, to the other end of extremes in temperatures. Probably won't need that extra cooling, there!
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Old 11-10-2016, 09:31 PM   #4
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1989 34.5' Airstream 345
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Wishing you good luck in getting the running gear modernized.
Are you replacing the transmission too?
Overdrive behind the original helps with highway driving.

Really interested in hearing of the driving improvements once it's completed.

Cheers Richard
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Old 11-11-2016, 05:18 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by propstrike View Post
Thanks, Brad! Before parking my rig, I had the radiator recored. That was many years ago, so who knows what corrosion will be in there. It's taller than it is wide, so I think that's what you were asking, a vertical radiator or not? The suggestion was I source an aluminum rad, but that probably because we are based in Vegas. It's warm, here. LOL. I will be relocating to South Dakota, to the other end of extremes in temperatures. Probably won't need that extra cooling, there!
Yep, that's the vertical radiator. With luck your radiator is still in good shape. If it was me I'd reuse the radiator as is. If it turns out you have over heating problems then you can remove just the radiator and have it re-cored or replaced. Peter has shown that it's probably simpler to put the front end on some high jack stands and remove the radiator from the bottom. At least that way you don't have to pull the whole front end apart.

Have fun with your rebuild!

Brad
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Old 11-11-2016, 05:20 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by tevake View Post
Wishing you good luck in getting the running gear modernized.
Are you replacing the transmission too?
Overdrive behind the original helps with highway driving.

Really interested in hearing of the driving improvements once it's completed.

Cheers Richard
Richard has a really good point. While you have the engine out it would be a great time to upgrade to a 4L80e over drive transmission. Several people on the forum have gone that route, including myself.

Something to consider....
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Old 11-11-2016, 06:04 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkahler View Post
Richard has a really good point. While you have the engine out it would be a great time to upgrade to a 4L80e over drive transmission. Several people on the forum have gone that route, including myself.

Something to consider....
Is the '81 fuel injected? If not adding the electronics just to control the transmission seems a pain, and makes the GearVendor option very attractive. If already adding EFI when changing to the 502, the job is part done and a lot more justifiable.
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Old 11-14-2016, 05:37 AM   #8
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If you're sticking with the stock carburetor then adding a Gear Vendors would definitely be the easier approach to getting the engine RPMs down to a reasonable level. If you are upgrading to fuel injection/TBI then a 4L80e isn't a bad option.

Brad
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Old 11-14-2016, 07:28 AM   #9
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1981 28' Airstream 280
Pierre , South Dakota
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Thanks, Brad, Martin and Richard! I get so much out of reading your project reports! Simply amazing!

Thanks for the transmission help, I understand the options better, now. I do want the lower RPMs, and I do want the injection. I'm pretty sure I won't have the funds to tackle that at this stage. Now I understand to do them together, and upgrade to the 4L80E. That's perfect.

At this point, I can upgrade the engine and all the 20 year servicing items I've come to do... Dropping the fuel tank, replacing anything that rotates or is made of rubber (read axle seals/trans seals/ujoints), cleaning/resealing anything that holds a fluid or a gas. I would like to put on an MSD module and blaster coil, But that will most likely become Phase II upgrades, as well. For what it's worth: I've used the MSD system on several projects, and LOVE it. It does everything it claims to do. I've added the 6l module, billet distributor and blaster coil on the last 3 projects, and really like the kick and smooth running it provides. Makes timing a little different, and you have to isolate the coil so it won't buzz through the radio, but it works.

I've been reading a lot of your notes, and ChiefAir has been a big help, too. I've had a good visit with the boys at WW Williams, in Vegas. They've got the Airstream, now. We put a battle plan together, and they seem to be very responsive to my questions, a nice shop, the mechs were good to talk to, there were other RV projects there, fire trucks, semi tractors, etc. I left feeling I made the best choice I could.

Today I get the crate engine heading their way. I haven't been able to find a 502 crate that claims applicability to post 1973 vehicles. I'm guessing the smog equipment will not transfer over. Any guidance on this would help alleviate some anxiety. I don't plan on having the rig registered in a smog required county, but the idea of loosing that ability concerns me. Any thoughts on this would be great!

Today I convert cash into parts. I'm sourcing all the major parts (their system is focused on diesel platforms, not gas), they provide the expert placement of muscle and experience. I waited to order the engine until talking with them. I plan on ordering the 502 from GMC Performance parts or Karl's performance parts. CheifAir had good luck with Karl's. He likes his 502HO version. The 502HT has higher torque at lower rpms, and states appropriate for tow trucks. I like the idea of low end power, but we spend most of our time at higher rpms?

This board and the members on it are inspiring! Thank you all for being a part of it!
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Old 11-14-2016, 01:38 PM   #10
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Kevin,

The radiator core part number is JCT-1333 and is sold by Heatexhd.

Brad
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Old 11-14-2016, 02:23 PM   #11
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Rad Core

Thanks, Brad! Excellent to have that.

Thanks for the time to find that!

Kevin
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Old 11-20-2016, 08:29 AM   #12
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The Big Move

Pictures from last weeks rescue mission. Moved the Silver Twinkie from it's hiding spot in Southern Nevada to a truck shop for a powerplant transplant!! Very happy to see this thing move, after a decade of being yard art!
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Old 11-20-2016, 08:40 AM   #13
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And the last few pics.....

Pulling the driveshaft prior to hitting the road,
Hitting the road in rush hour Vegas traffic (very much not recommended),
Dropping off the rig at the truck shop (will reveal which after the job, with a recommendation or a warning as applicable).
Ewing Brothers towing did a superb job! I can't say what a process it was to extract the Airstream from it's parking spot... it was an obstacle course of fences, bushrow, house, neighbors cars, gates, etc. I was impressed the driver didn't call for air support and longline sling extraction! Those guys rock! Thanks to Brett from Ewing Brothers! No kidding, it was a 3 hour surgical extraction!!!!
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Old 11-20-2016, 09:23 AM   #14
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1989 34.5' Airstream 345
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Wow, quite the extraction there, yard art is right!
Was it parked there for ten years not being run at all?
If so, then I think your comprehensive approach seem a good way to ending up with a reliable, well functioning rig.

How are the interior and the living systems of the coach, is that the next phase.
For after you get it running well.

For as much work and new parts that have gone into my coach since it came to me, it still looks very much the same as when I got it but it does run and drive much better. For me there needs to be some return on investment, in terms of fun and enjoyable use.
Those recharge the energy stores for the next phase of improvement tasks.

Very interested in how the repowering job goes at the shop. Both timing and cost wise, should be much quicker than the many DIY epics many of us here have gone thru.
Are you having the shop go thru the brakes while its in there?

Thanks for sharing you story with your new coach, it will be great watching it come together and live again.

Cheers Richard.
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Old 11-20-2016, 03:34 PM   #15
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Hopefully that will be the last time you see it hooked to the back of a tow truck! Good luck with your engine replacement.
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Old 11-20-2016, 03:48 PM   #16
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IN thinking about your project Propstrike,
Do you have any idea of the condition of the steering system.
It's a well known wear area, most active classics have had some or lots of steering Parts replaced by now.
Loose steering, wandering on the road , and worse have been the norm.

Bell cranks, ball joints, Tie rod ends, the coupleing joint etc are the usual suspects.

With that new more powerful engine, these other details will quickly come into focus.
Please don't take my suggestions as piling on. Just trying to help you be aware of common problem areas.

Cheers Richard
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Old 11-21-2016, 08:30 AM   #17
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Next

Richard,,
Yeah, it was there for 10 years... parked at a friends place, and his wife loves her cats. I think that's one of the reasons there were no rodent signs at all, in the coach. Simply amazing, but there it is. Not one mouse! She had 7 cats, coming and going.

You mentioned ROI on the work involved... I'm looking forward to the confidence in a good running, solid machine. It's enough, for now. I am fully focused on the mechanicals right now, the interior stuff will have to wait until I get it back to my place. Once it's at my place, I can get an idea of whether I need to gut and rebuild, or just fix what's in place. I'd bet we end up fixing in place, for the first year. It makes sense to me to get a little use out of it, get a full buy-in from the wife, then reconfigure based on lessons learned. I'd bet we decide to change things a little. We'll be traveling as a couple, instead of a family with kids. The bunks may go to make room for a nice full or queen bed

I'm hoping the rig turns into a capable base camp for trips into the mountains. I'm a WEMT (Wilderness medic), and plan on spending time on the trail. This would be a great landing pad after a week or so up top. ROI paid in full!

Steering system: I wrote myself a note, years ago. I need to replace the idler arm, apparently. I won't be surprised no matter what the shop finds, at this point. Whatever needs R/R, gets removed and replaced.

The airbags will likely be trash... are the airbags ride assist, or are they critical for driving? I can't remember. I'll need to start sourcing those, if they are primary for safety. I should look at the forum, I'm sure there's good reading on those. If I can get her home, that's where I need to do the work. I hate paying someone else for work I can do myself... it took me so long to swallow this pill, pay a shop to do this engine, but I couldn't figure another way to do it. The transport to pull the rig home was as much as paying to have the engine replaced.

Thanks for being a part of the forum. I've learned quite a lot from reading the epic tales of mechanical triumph from members.

Kevin
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Old 11-21-2016, 08:43 AM   #18
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Kevin,

There are two different air bag systems on your coach. The rear air bags are absolutely essential for safe driving. Without the rear air bags the frame sits on the rear portion of the leaf springs.

In general the rear air bag system consists of the original leaf springs with the rear 1/4 of the spring cut off. An air bag system is bolted in place which then raises the coach back up to proper ride height. So without the air bags functioning the coach bounces up and down with the cutoff end of the spring banging on the frame.

I found this out the hard way when driving my old 84 310 from Savannah GA to Arkansas. At the time I didn't know anything about the suspensions system and when we picked it up from the seller he didn't really say a whole lot about it. He must have filled the air tank (the compressor wasn't working) before we got there as it sat just fine. By the time we got out of GA the tank was empty and the ride got really rough and we had to slow down. I finally figured out we could fill the tank at a gas station and it would last for a while but we constantly had to fill the tank. Not fun.

The front springs are not essential for driving but they do help the front end ride and will help keep the front end from porpoising while driving.

If you plan on driving the coach from Las Vegas to South Dakota you really need to replace the rear air bags before making the trip. Fortunately on a 310 they are easier to replace than a 345

Brad
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Old 11-21-2016, 09:40 AM   #19
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Air Bags

Outstanding information, Brad. Thank you, once again, for the education. I will source an airbag system for the rear. When I parked it, it was working, but being mostly rubber, I have no confidence in its continued integrity. Safety First.

I'm assuming the 310 and the 28 footer are the same system. They look similar, in pics.

One more thing to put on the list.....!

Thanks, Brad!
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Old 11-21-2016, 11:28 AM   #20
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I can't say for certain that the 28s and 31s are the same but I'm betting they are very similar. Hopefully someone with an 81 28' Classic will chime in with more specific information.

Bottom line is after 10 years of sitting the air bags should be replaced even if they hold air.
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