Brake Problems On 345 for New Member

[GlenCoombe]

JaG, you'd be surprised how much can be accomplished on a flat solid surface without a lift.
I do a lot of my own work, on my back, on my creeper, under the bus. A good bottle jack and appropriate axle stands will get you by for so much of the work if you have the room in your driveway.
Good luck and keep posting your progress for us to follow, Please!

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by jagcb750

Here is an update. I filled up the master cylinder with fluid early saturday morning and took Ol' Nancy out and just like like that. Instant brakes.. Didn't have to bleed them out or anything. I guess if I would have done that first than I wouldn't had to have posted here about this issue, but then we all wouldn't have had the opportunity to read all the interesting comments that members posted on this topic.. Thanks for all the help. This has been an interesting and helpful read.. My wife and I took Nancy out on about a 80 mile round trip to an RV site next to Cumberland Falls in a place called Eagle Falls.. It was like a scene out of Deliverance.. We had a good time and the brakes held out really good. Every once in a while though there was a rubbing sound coming from the rear of the coach which I was assuming was the tag axle brakes not disengaging properly.. A little sticky maybe...I will have to check them out.. I figure I will have to put her on a lift or something in order to check them?

No jacks needed.

Pull the tag axle tires up on some small ramps made from 2 x 6's. Much safer than any kind of jack.

By the way, DO NOT under any circumstances put a jack or jack stand underneath the tag axle. To do so can cause the axle to go out of alignment.

Andy

[guy99]

Originally Posted by GlenCoombe

JaG, you'd be surprised how much can be accomplished on a flat solid surface without a lift.
I do a lot of my own work, on my back, on my creeper, under the bus. A good bottle jack and appropriate axle stands will get you by for so much of the work if you have the room in your driveway.
Good luck and keep posting your progress for us to follow, Please!

I second Glenn's observation. With good jack stands (you can get 6 ton stands for under $30 at Harbor Freight), a good jack and/or using your levelers, and a creeper much can be done.

Never get under your rig while it is being supported only by a jack or levelers, always have supports with adequate weight capacity. If a jack or leveler blows a hose or seal, the rig will slam down, not ease down as will happen with a slow leak.

[jagcb750]

I have been planning on getting some jack stands anyway. This would be a good opportunity. I live in the sticks so I don't have a good driveway. I had a great driveway at the house I just sold this past April, but now I have a lot of gravels and a yard full of dieing grass. I thought maybe I needed to lift up the coach to spin the tag axles tires and apply the brakes to see that the electric brakes are engaging and disengaging properly. I thought that it might be the easiest way to see if they are working properly.
@guy99 does Harbor Freight have a website? $30 bucks seems like a bargain to me.

[guy99]

I understand the issue with rural driveways. Mine is all 'road base'. I put a sheet of plywood down to work under the rig.

Here's a link to the online Harbor Freight site:

Harbor Freight Tools

Their shipping is based on total order cost not weight so shipping isn't bad. The also have retail stores, there is a link on the site to locate the stores. In Kentucky they have stores in Lexington and Louisville.

My rig, a 310, doesn't have a tag axle so I know nothing about tag brakes, sorry.

[swebster]

Jag,
Rememer that the tags are electric and engages by the brake controller under the dash "sensing" decelleration. Applying the service brakes with the brake pedal will not engage the tag brakes.

There are some threads here on testing the tag brakes. A search might turn up some useful procedures.

[jagcb750]

@Swebster:
Thanks, that helps me out. I was unaware about that. I will do a search on testing them.

[M Hohnstein]

Install a new master cylinder, bleed the front and rear axle wheel calipers throughly and it will be all good. Use DOT 3 brake fluid.

[jagcb750]

The original Master Cylinder was leaking underneath it. I thought I would post a pic of where the Master Cylinder is located for the newbs.

This is a pic taken just above the driver's side left front tire. There is a cover plate removed for easy access. It usually isn't that easy to see or get to.

[elbundi]

On our return trip from the beach the other week, our brake warning light came on, so took note and planned for an inspection. On the way out of Panama City as soon as we got to speed we'd hit another red light. My wife was following in the truck and called to say I'm smoking. The passenger side dually brakes were indeed very hot. Nothing to do but head on and only use the brakes when absolutely necessary, eventually you do come to a halt when coasting

Anyway, this is my first time lifting something this heavy and attempting a brake job. Info so far in this thread amongst others is really helping.

See attached pictures. These pads look ok to me, but why would they cause so much heat? Is it worth getting the master cylinder reconditioned while its off, and what about the reservoir, a good cleaning or replacement. Do I pump the brake pedal with the engine running?

Thanks

[GlenCoombe]

Andy, did you retract the caliper prior to removing it? How tight where the pads? A dragging brake might indicate a problem with the caliper, brake line or master cyl.

That you got a brake light might mean master cyl. so check it out first. Did you verify the fluid in the chambers?

Parts aren't a problem as NAPA is a good source as is Mill Supply.

[elbundi]

Hey Glen

The calipers weren't that tight so I used a C clamp and a piece of wood to reract the piston after removal.

Well I found one problem, see attached. Pitiful! After a year and half of ownership I have no excuse.

Anyway, it took the whole 32oz bottle to bleed all the yucky old stuff. It'll be next weekend before I can do the other 3, but the brake warning light is now off. I went for a spin round the block, alas the rear dual brake did get hot and started to smoke a little. Hmm

[GlenCoombe]

Hmmmm is right...

The fact that you're missing a bunch of brake fluid should make a little light go on.... not on the dash board though.

Perhaps a new master cyl. is in order.

Have you checked the brake lines?

If the caliper retracted in the normal manner then I would not suspect the caliper as the first area of concern but a brake line that is expanding or a master that is not pumping enough pressure.

As it is only the one side have you looked at the other to make sure you're getting action there? A clean disc will tell the tale.

So, it's not my money so I'll spend the big bucks and replace the master and take a hard look at the brake lines to the rear brakes. And hey, while you're at it the stuffed caliper can't cost that much more.

[richinny]

could that smoke be leaking brake fluid?

[Smartstream]

There is a good chance that the left side caliper is frozen and with no fluid going to the front brakes, that poor right side caliper is doing all the work stopping the rig. This would get it hot real quick.

[joe gooch]

The information about the braking system on the 345 is very good; however, I would like to add information about the electric tag axle brakes.

I do not believe they every worked on my '84 345. The hydraulic control was next to useless. I replaced it with an electonic brake control unit from NAPA; next, to make a long story short, you must ground the electronic unit very well (as instructed) or it will not work properly. AND, although the wheel magnets had force, they were inadequate. I replaced them with more powerful wheel magnets and now they work. Then you must adjust the brake control as instructed to not "burn rubber" with the tag axle electric brakes. And, now I have brakes!!!

Joe Gooch, Slaughters, KY--

[joe gooch]

For Jag and brake problems on 345!

The information already given about the brakes is excellent! Let me add my experiences about the electric tag axle brakes. First, I found the original hydraulic brake control unit to be worse than useless; I replaced it with a NAPA electronic control unit; secondly, the NAPA unit must be grounded as instructed or it will not work; thirdly, the original magnets on my brakes checked out all right but finally I found they were simply not powerful enough to lock the wheels and I replaced them with more powerful magnets; now the tag axle brakes are powerful and you have to adjust the NAPA control unit as instructed to avoid leaving a trail of rubber.
In my opinion the tag axle brakes on my 1984 345 never worked a day in their life; the magnets were too weak; the hydraulic control unit was useless.
Now, are the brakes adequate? Yes, unless you tailgate; you must remember that this 345 behemouth is a loaded truck; trucks need more time to stop.

Hope this helps,

Joe in Slaughters, KY

[ralley]

Well, you've all done very well, again!!

Went down to the Zeppelin tonight to turn on the refer, stow some stuff, and check to see that the new coil still works--MSD Blaster SS, lasted less than 2 years--but I digress. Started fine--then I put my foot on the brake pedal. It went to the floor, and the brake light on the dash came on.

What to do? Looked in the engine compartment. No reservoir. Looked under the "hood." No reservoir. Where's the bloody thing? Moreover, what's my bloody problem?

Did I mention that its been raining for days-and I don't really want to crawl under the truck in the dark? Or that I've got a six hour drive tomorrow?

I found this thread in the forum, and I would guess that I'll be able to sort this out in the morning (although I may have to buy stock in the brake fluid company before I'm finished).

Thanks to all--even though you did not know the help you were!!

Rob

[3 Dog Nite]

Hey ralley, it took me a while to find it too. The reservoir is behind the front driver's tire. you can access it from the outside of the front wheel well. There may be an access panel in front of it. It's practically mounted over the frame. Pretend you're going to change the cylinder 1 spark plug from underneath & you'll bump your left elbow on it.

Ricky