1984 Model 345 - maiden roadtrip

[marcvl]

Does anyone know where to find the “federal safety label” in a 345? Apparently they need this to properly register the vehicle in California.

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by marcvl

Does anyone know where to find the “federal safety label” in a 345? Apparently they need this to properly register the vehicle in California.

on my 350, it is on the dash along with vin #, weight, tires etc visible from the outside drivers side window.

[marcvl]

Originally Posted by PeterH-Airstreamer

on my 350, it is on the dash along with vin #, weight, tires etc visible from the outside drivers side window.

Nope. Not on mine

[Magnet18]

Not sure what label they're referring to. Mine used to have an RV cert of some sort riveted next to the door, and an aluminum stamped sticker by the front passenger wheel well. Both came off when refinishing the aluminum.

[marcvl]

Every car with a VIN is supposed to have 'US Federal Safety Label' or 'US Federal Certification Label'. Without it, DMV will not register the out-of-state vehicle. Many old cars don't have that label anymore because it's typically a sticker that's attached to a door, window, or dashboard. Nothing lasts forever, especially stickers :-). So, anyways, the only way to solve is for the California Highway Patrol (CHP) to inspect the vehicle and approve it. Waiting to get an appointment scheduled...

[Magnet18]

Originally Posted by marcvl

Every car with a VIN is supposed to have 'US Federal Safety Label' or 'US Federal Certification Label'. Without it, DMV will not register the out-of-state vehicle. Many old cars don't have that label anymore because it's typically a sticker that's attached to a door, window, or dashboard. Nothing lasts forever, especially stickers :-). So, anyways, the only way to solve is for the California Highway Patrol (CHP) to inspect the vehicle and approve it. Waiting to get an appointment scheduled...

I've registered probably 5 out of state vehicles over the years, had to have an officer come certify the VIN a couple times for the motorhome and other old or non-running stuff, they always came out within a couple hours of calling the non-emergency dispatch number and charged a couple bucks.

Never had to certify or inspect anything else, Indiana couldn't care less as long as you pay the taxes

[PeterH-350LE]

Thats what they put in the 1992 350. Kinda of annoying, because it reflects on the windshield from drivers seat
Hey Dan, look, we are " Multipurpose Passenger Vehicles"

[Smartstream]

Of course it's multipurpose, you can eat, sleep and poop without leaving the vehicle. Passengers can even do it rolling down the highway.

I've never seen that tag on my old stuff. You guys with the modern rigs have more regulations to follow. Interesting they still spec 70 psi in the tag tires in spite of the light load.

[RETIREDRIVER]

Hi Marcvl,
May I suggest you have a conversation with a knowledgeable smog technician prior to investing in a replacement motor with technology (e.g. TBI v carburetor) that is different then what the manufacturer provided with your model year. It is my understanding that California requires the smog test to be based on the original type equipment. Replacing the original technology and/or equipment with a more modern and even less polluting technology requires the smog technician to also change their test methodology.
Please understand, I am not saying it can't or shouldn't be done just that it may introduce changes to the smog testing that you should be aware of and plan for.
Regarding RV compliance markings, my 85/86 345 has two on the outside passenger side of the coach. The first is an RVIA (recreational vehicle industry association) tag just forward of the door (behind the door when open). The second is just aft of the front wheel well from the state of California Housing and Community Development. I didn't find any Federal tag or placard.
Hope this helps and please let me know what kind of feedback you get from your smog technician.
Happy Trails!!!

[marcvl]

Good point about smog certification. My understanding is that when you install a new engine that has a different configuration, the result has to be better than what the original engine was doing, but I don't know what the impact will be on test methodology. I will find out.

We got some feedback from Jasper on the 454 rebuilt and 4L80E transmission. The 454 engine with an RV cam has an extra 100 torque, which sounds good to me! I think that's roughly a 30% increase in torque. Nevertheless, we'll still investigate the 502 as an option as well.

The picture was less clear on the 4L80E transmission. They can ship one, but they didn't think it was going to be straightforward to install, because it's a fully electronic transmission, and the current MoHo/454 doesn't have any control circuitry to handle the 4L80E. Also mechanically, the link must be longer to make it fit. Maybe I'm missing something, or I misunderstood, but I thought that upgrading to a 4-speed transmission was very straightforward.

They also questioned the reason for doing this. The overdrive might save you some RPMs on a flat road, but as soon as it gets a bit more hilly, they believe the transmission will start shifting up and down very badly, given the overall weight of the vehicle.

Oh, and I have an appointment with CHP (CA highway patrol) this Thursday to do the vehicle/VIN inspection.

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by marcvl

...

The picture was less clear on the 4L80E transmission. They can ship one, but they didn't think it was going to be straightforward to install, because it's a fully electronic transmission, and the current MoHo/454 doesn't have any control circuitry to handle the 4L80E. Also mechanically, the link must be longer to make it fit. Maybe I'm missing something, or I misunderstood, but I thought that upgrading to a 4-speed transmission was very straightforward......

Several folks have upgraded to a 4l80E and either had it done by a capable shop, like Jerry (Stream3) or had outside help with the added TCU (Transmission control unit) programming. The 4l80E relies on info from engine sensors, like TPS (throttle position sensor) to allow shifting into certain gears. It also sends signals back to the TCU via the speed input/output sensors on the transmission.

If your shop is not familiar with this, you should consider a Gear vendors Overdrive unit that gets mounted behind your existing transmission. It gives you the 4th gear and splits the other gears for more effective mountain driving.
Jaspers questioning the use of the 4l80E surprises me, since these were very successful and desired factory configurations for many years. I would not purchase a 4l80e from them for that reason alone.

Certain mountainous driving may require to use the shifter like a manual transmission with a keen eye on the rpm.

[Magnet18]

Originally Posted by marcvl

Good point about smog certification. My understanding is that when you install a new engine that has a different configuration, the result has to be better than what the original engine was doing, but I don't know what the impact will be on test methodology. I will find out.

We got some feedback from Jasper on the 454 rebuilt and 4L80E transmission. The 454 engine with an RV cam has an extra 100 torque, which sounds good to me! I think that's roughly a 30% increase in torque. Nevertheless, we'll still investigate the 502 as an option as well.

The picture was less clear on the 4L80E transmission. They can ship one, but they didn't think it was going to be straightforward to install, because it's a fully electronic transmission, and the current MoHo/454 doesn't have any control circuitry to handle the 4L80E. Also mechanically, the link must be longer to make it fit. Maybe I'm missing something, or I misunderstood, but I thought that upgrading to a 4-speed transmission was very straightforward.

They also questioned the reason for doing this. The overdrive might save you some RPMs on a flat road, but as soon as it gets a bit more hilly, they believe the transmission will start shifting up and down very badly, given the overall weight of the vehicle.

Oh, and I have an appointment with CHP (CA highway patrol) this Thursday to do the vehicle/VIN inspection.

Also surprised they questioned the 4L80E. A lot of EFI systems will also control the trans, or there are affordable standalone controllers.


How many HP and torque did they say the 454 with RV cam would make? I'm trying to figure out ballpark what mine is too, but the company that built my engine is downright rude and unhelpful... But it should be similar to a Jasper with RV cam.

From everything I've read the 502 is better in every single way, and is an exact drop-in replacement. Basically a 454 with bigger bores, way better breathing, wayyy more torque, and you can buy them brand new. My 454 is only about 10k miles old, but if it ever gives me an excuse the 502 is a no brainer

[marcvl]

Originally Posted by stream3

Congratulations on getting such a nice coach. Before you make a decision, I recommend you evaluate your options thoroughly. I'm on my second 345 and on the this one I swapped out the 454 for a HT502, EFI, Banks and a 4L80E. It took two months at a good shop.

Where did you buy your HT502? Was it new or rebuilt? We checked with Jasper if they had rebuilt 502s. They do, but they couldn’t quote a price without knowing the “application”. I told them it was to replace a 454 in a Chevy P30, but given that a Chevy P30 never came with a 502 engine installed by default, it’s somehow giving them issues... I guess they need to understand the base configuration of the engine as it has been used in an actual truck first?? Not sure I get this.

Also, Hughesperforrmance is quoting 12 week to deliver a 4L80e transmission.

[Magnet18]

Originally Posted by marcvl

Where did you buy your HT502? Was it new or rebuilt? We checked with Jasper if they had rebuilt 502s. They do, but they couldn’t quote a price without knowing the “application”. I told them it was to replace a 454 in a Chevy P30, but given that a Chevy P30 never came with a 502 engine installed by default, it’s somehow giving them issues... I guess they need to understand the base configuration of the engine as it has been used in an actual truck first?? Not sure I get this.

Also, Hughesperforrmance is quoting 12 week to deliver a 4L80e transmission.

I saw this place recommend in my research, but know little about them other than that

http://www.crateenginedepot.com/mobile/HT-502CI-Base-Truck-and-Off-Road-Crate-Engine-88890534-P9413C604.aspx

I believe it is a new block.

You can also buy them directly from GM in various configurations
Like this un, their lowest tier, with 400ishHP and 550ish ft-lbs
https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/88890534.html

And summit racing has them in stock.

Curious how much Jasper is with a rebuilt compared to brand new. I would think if you tell Jasper you want to mate it to a 4l80e and tow 15,000lbs, that would be all they need to know? Surprised they're having trouble. Very few vehicles came with a 502 stock, if they offer it you're certainly not the first to be doing a swap.

Depending on how much you want to dig in, good info on the block differences here
https://www.chevydiy.com/ultimate-guide-building-chevy-big-blocks-cylinder-blocks-instruction/

And I got a bit of good info from this thread
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/26926973/print/true.cfm

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by marcvl

Where did you buy your HT502? Was it new or rebuilt? We checked with Jasper if they had rebuilt 502s. They do, but they couldn’t quote a price without knowing the “application”. I told them it was to replace a 454 in a Chevy P30, but given that a Chevy P30 never came with a 502 engine installed by default, it’s somehow giving them issues... I guess they need to understand the base configuration of the engine as it has been used in an actual truck first?? Not sure I get this.

Also, Hughesperforrmance is quoting 12 week to deliver a 4L80e transmission.

you can also order a new 4l80e from Jegs. They are new transmissions built for GM. You have to make sure they have the right output shaft for the e-Brake setup on our rigs. (It needs to extend 6" from the main transmission body, splined and threaded) to work the ebrake rear housing ACD # 8680912 This is not an easy tasks, since most people don't have a clue. That is why Hughes Performance is great to work with. They know what you are talking about.

If you don't insist on the 6" shaft, you will most likely get a 7" output shaft and have to modify a lot of stuff to make it work or not.

I strongly recommend to order the 6 bolt torque converter from Hughes, its part # 25BLXTM and it is very expensive (~1600.)

Your new transmission may or may not have a parking pawl, know the consequences of this.

Your mechanic still will have to confirm and check everything I said, since I do not know your exact set-up.

So, please, do not take my word for it.

Your other option is to have a Gear vendors Overdrive installed behind your existing TH475

[stream3]

Originally Posted by marcvl

Where did you buy your HT502? Was it new or rebuilt? We checked with Jasper if they had rebuilt 502s. They do, but they couldn’t quote a price without knowing the “application”. I told them it was to replace a 454 in a Chevy P30, but given that a Chevy P30 never came with a 502 engine installed by default, it’s somehow giving them issues... I guess they need to understand the base configuration of the engine as it has been used in an actual truck first?? Not sure I get this.

Also, Hughesperforrmance is quoting 12 week to deliver a 4L80e transmission.

Hi Marcyl,
It's a new crate motor from Jeg's, and they do stock them. In my case, the shop that does my work is literally down the street from Jeg's HQ and distribution center here in Ohio, so I think they just picked it up. I don't have a clue why Jasper doesn't understand this swap, as I'm certainly not the first to go down this road, and I sure won't be the last. It just makes such a huge difference in driving ease and pleasure. But make no mistake, to get the set-up I have takes a shop (or serious gear head) with a lot of experience and knowledge to get the job done right. I wouldn't take it to any shop that hasn't done a similar (or exact is much better) job. Happy to fill you in on the details if you want to PM me.

[chiefair]

I bought my 502 from https://www.karlkustoms.com/. It is a Chevrolet Performance crate engine. I tried several local GM dealers but for some reason, GM had a back-order on the engines when I was looking so buying online was my only option, the dealers couldn't get them. Karl's also sells "connect & cruise" packages that include a transmission. They were great to deal with.

I am very happy with my 502.

[Kvsterling]

Originally Posted by PeterH-Airstreamer

Several folks have upgraded to a 4l80E and either had it done by a capable shop, like Jerry (Stream3) or had outside help with the added TCU (Transmission control unit) programming. The 4l80E relies on info from engine sensors, like TPS (throttle position sensor) to allow shifting into certain gears. It also sends signals back to the TCU via the speed input/output sensors on the transmission.

If your shop is not familiar with this, you should consider a Gear vendors Overdrive unit that gets mounted behind your existing transmission. It gives you the 4th gear and splits the other gears for more effective mountain driving.
Jaspers questioning the use of the 4l80E surprises me, since these were very successful and desired factory configurations for many years. I would not purchase a 4l80e from them for that reason alone.

Certain mountainous driving may require to use the shifter like a manual transmission with a keen eye on the rpm.

I haven’t heard much about the use of the hydraulic 4 speed trans for this if us with the original engine. Thoughts on the upgrade to a built 700r4?

[marcvl]

My 345 is now officially a Cali-girl

California Highway Police did a quick inspection and filled out a form. I took it to DMV and they issued a license plate on the spot. Done.

Interesting tidbit. Make and model on the previous registration (Kentucky) was 'Chevy P30'. The CA registration on the other hand shows 'Airstream 345'. Apparently, CA requires that whoever has final responsibility over the construction of the vehicle should be listed. And since Chevy only provided a part (chassis and engine), they are not considered the manufacturer.

Thanks for all the feedback on 502 engines. Doing more research.

[Magnet18]

Originally Posted by marcvl

My 345 is now officially a Cali-girl

California Highway Police did a quick inspection and filled out a form. I took it to DMV and they issued a license plate on the spot. Done.

Interesting tidbit. Make and model on the previous registration (Kentucky) was 'Chevy P30'. The CA registration on the other hand shows 'Airstream 345'. Apparently, CA requires that whoever has final responsibility over the construction of the vehicle should be listed. And since Chevy only provided a part (chassis and engine), they are not considered the manufacturer.

Thanks for all the feedback on 502 engines. Doing more research.

Woot!

Interesting on the make and model. Did they use the airstream ID or the Chevy P-30 VIN?

Mine is year 83, make AIR, model is blank, then the GM VIN. But if I look up that VIN in the gm database it's an 82 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think here it's probably at the discretion of whoever is behind the counter that day.