1984 Airstream 345 owner (Newbie) need advice!

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by Keyair

Took me ages to find this one photo I took of my Compressor and wires!
For orientation, this is in the very rearmost RH or passenger side bedroom cupboard looking forward.



Pump is, I believe is a 12V Gast 3HBB... 3H - Gast

In the foreground left is the electrical thing i called a solenoid...

Yep, that's a solenoid....relay

In the world I work in a solenoid is typically a valve with an electric coil that you energize to open (or close) the valve. However in the automotive world a solenoid is typically a relay. Go figure!

As an aside your pump and solenoid arrangement is identical to the 86 345 that I dismantled. I still have that solenoid assembly sitting on the shelf.

With the ignition on, and my dash switch on, I get power to the smaller LH white wire and the unit clicks.
I assume I should have power to the larger red wire coming in from the right side, but I read nothing.
If I supply power to the LH red wire the pump starts.
Guess I will have to trace the power line...

Based on the size of the solenoid I would be surprised if the contacts are burnt but it's still a possibility. You're correct the red wire on the right should be hot all the time. With luck it's fused and the fuse has blown. That red wire is most likely coming from your battery compartment.

Brad

[Keyair]

Cranking day at storage...
Got my Dodge Van up and running, by replacing the fuel pump and flushing the fuel tank. Now good to go... I hope.

Then moved over to the AS.
Cleaned up the transmission X member that was a greaseball mess. Maybe I have a tail shaft leak... nothing on the parking brake, but I am watching it now.
Thought I would start with the Derale trans pan swap.

Firstly, ignore my dumb statement that my temp sender plug was missing... it was stuck firmly to the pan drain plug magnet!

I bolted up the new filter, and added washers to make mount the filter properly!
Offered the pan up..
Fail.
The rear of the new pan fouls the flange of the transmission X-member by at least 1/4"
The stock pan is shallower, and also has a relieved area. I will post pics tomorrow when I am not so exhausted!
Looking at the old trans fluid in the drain pan in the sunlight, I can see some metallic flakes too... maybe normal/nothing, but we will see.

That plan thwarted, I moved on to this air suspension compressor issue.
Using my wonderful Powerprobe 3, I turned on the ignition and compressor switch... and checked the contacts.
I can confirm, I have power at the energizing lead, and the relay works fine.
I do NOT have main feed power to start the compressor tho.
I traced this main feed wire from the compressor. It dives down through the floor, and under the MH. It emerges rearward of the pass side rear compartment, and into a conduit that runs along the RH chassis rail, until it disappears under behind the grey tank/Tag axle... at this point, I lost it...
I followed the chassis rail forward, but its not there. Have to assume it crossed over to the LH rail for now.
I looked at the Airstream Owners manual, and it says the power for the "Levelers and Rear Air Suspension" is fed from "F" in the fuse block.
Looked there, and there is nothing mounted! I hate electrics, and need to research more...
Moved on to fuel tank prep.
I am in the mode of cleaning/painting anything that is accessible as remove stuff... I have prepped and painted the chassis rails behind each storage/battery drawer as I went along. So while the fuel tank was out, its a good time.

Before:



After:


Just satin black rustoleum.

All for today.

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by Keyair

...

That plan thwarted, I moved on to this air suspension compressor issue.
Using my wonderful Powerprobe 3, I turned on the ignition and compressor switch... and checked the contacts.
I can confirm, I have power at the energizing lead, and the relay works fine.
I do NOT have main feed power to start the compressor tho.
I traced this main feed wire from the compressor. It dives down through the floor, and under the MH. It emerges rearward of the pass side rear compartment, and into a conduit that runs along the RH chassis rail, until it disappears under behind the grey tank/Tag axle... at this point, I lost it...
I followed the chassis rail forward, but its not there. Have to assume it crossed over to the LH rail for now.
I looked at the Airstream Owners manual, and it says the power for the "Levelers and Rear Air Suspension" is fed from "F" in the fuse block.
Looked there, and there is nothing mounted! I hate electrics, and need to research more...

Steve, many of us have taken the main power lead for the compressor out of the GM fuseblock and added a FUSED 8 gauge (in my case) wire directly to the motor battery.
It's simple enough and I may even switch it to the coach batteries, since all the GM stuff is overloaded as is.

[Keyair]

I think that has been done Peter, but I am not finding where it is moved to yet...

[Keyair]

Looking through the Service manual, page A16D shows a diagram of the circuits for the compressor.
It states that the main power to the compressor is supplied "By the Circuit Breaker next to the Isolator at the front of the motorhome".
I will be looking for that today!

Fuel tank replacement day too!

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by Keyair

Looking through the Service manual, page A16D shows a diagram of the circuits for the compressor.
It states that the main power to the compressor is supplied "By the Circuit Breaker next to the Isolator at the front of the motorhome".
I will be looking for that today!

Fuel tank replacement day too!

That's what mine was. But what supplies that breaker? In my case it went either to the ignition switch or the fuse panel. I never tried to figure it out since I used that breaker for the relay only and ran power directly to the compressor as mentioned above.

[mayco]

The feed for the compressor, next to your isolator, very well may be picking up its power directly from the isolator. Is there a wire coming from the isolator to the circuit breaker? If there is then that would be your power source for the compressor and the curcuit breaker is your inline protection rather than a fuse. Is the switch on your dash a factory install to activate the compressor? Usually thats done with the pressure switch next to the compressor. you could do away with about 80% of the wiring and related stuff next to the compressor there, starting at the relay and moving to the right, by installing a Viair combination pressure switch/relay. About $20 I think. Youve got a lot of seperate components there that is all wrapped up in a tight little unit with the Viair combo switch. It would also illiminate the need for the switch on the dash (or wherever it is). You might want to consider it, makes for a clean install.


Amazon.com: Viair 90110 Pressure Switch with Relay: Automotive

[Keyair]

Sounds good guys..

I didnt get to that today.
Started with the trans pan foul issue...

Held the pan up and marked the X member with a marker, protected the open trans with some masonite, then broke out the sawzall!

This was my first cut.


Smoothed that out with a flap disc...


Then did a test fit... looked good!
I did end up taking out a little more.



I bolted the pan up, but that rearmost pan bolt proved my undoing...
Absolutely nothing I could do to get it in, so I gave up, and plan to unbolt the trans from the X member, lift the trans a little and get her done tomorrow.
Moved on to the fuel tank.
I had noticed that on the passenger side, some lazy person had dropped the tank(I believe it was replaced), and left a full set of 3 mountings.. because it was too much work to do properly and trapped by the electical cables.

See left to right... new mounting... junk mounting, then new mounting, then 2x junkers, then new.


They had to go... so 10 mins with my handl sawzall!


I had planned to get the gas tank in today, but did not realize that the feed pipe are in fact 3/8" pipe... and I had 5/16... so a trip back out to the store sucked up an hour.
Here is the tank, ready to go in.... straps painted with Black hammer rustoleum...


Did quite get it up and in before it got dark, so more tomorrow!

[Keyair]

Before I get into my update...
Peter/Anyone please tell me where this "Relay/Solenoid" for the suspension compressor feed is? I know I have one on top of the engine, and another one under the hood on the drives side... but did not see a breaker/fuse on/near either.

Busy day yesterday again.

345 and similar owners please note the following:
There are fuel lines that possibly need replacing!

On my '84 the fuel feed line is 3/8", and the return line is 5/16".
I had replaced some of the rubber line over the last few years and "Thought" the tank lines were the last of it... NOT!

While replacing the rubber hoses to the tank I was struggling to remove the tank feed and return line where they are attached to the hard lines on the passenger side chassis rail. This area is behind the Grey water tank. Not only were they hidden from view, but almost unreachable.

I got the pipe clamps off, but even after slitting each pipe with a razor, the 3/8 refused to come of... I was pulling it and suddenly the WHOLE PIPE came rearward.

Here is a bad pic of the area with the pipe ends just visible. You can see the 3/8" feed pipe just, and the return pipe is behind it... electrical wire above.


I pulled it out and found it was shorter than I expected.
I realized this was a problem, and crawled forward(MH blocked at front, lifted fully on levelers at the rear, with 6T jackstands under the chassis rails!). to look where this next joint was...
Right above the TAG axle and completely inaccessible!

Here is a pic from in front of the axle looking back.


You can't even see OR reach the next connection that I had pulled out!

Decided right there, this needed a fix/upgrade.
Pulled out the return pipe, and both forward connections.

Note in this pic how the clamps face UP... I bet they are the original factory pipes! This is right above the gap between drive and tag axles.


Measured them and went out and bought some 3/8 and 5/16 steel pipe.
Here are the rearmost pipes, with the original rubber hose laid out with the new steel line.


Working from the rear, I inserted the new lines through the LOWER chassis support, and reconnected the lines... here is how it looks now, although I need to clamp them before I will be happy.


I just eliminated 2' of old, dangerous fuel line, and all connections are reachable for the future.

[Keyair]

That done, I wiggled the fuel tank back in!



In doing the fuel tank and lines, I removed the tag axle wheel...
Found this interesting...
The steel wheel has this "Spacer"... wiil I need this with the Alcoa alloys?

[mayco]

Pardon me for an off topic question here Key, but could you tell me what ratio of Diesel Kleen you recommend? 32oz per 60 gallon tank? Thank you. Your fuel tank looks beautiful, great work as always.

Mike

[Keyair]

Thanks Mike!
I will reply on your thread so you know where it is!

[bkahler]

Before I get into my update...
Peter/Anyone please tell me where this "Relay/Solenoid" for the suspension compressor feed is? I know I have one on top of the engine, and another one under the hood on the drives side... but did not see a breaker/fuse on/near either.

I think I mentioned previously that on my 84 310 the compressor feed wire came right out of the fuse block under the dash. It wasn't a fused wire but a straight connection into the fuse block that was hot when the ignition was turned on.

Are there any wires plugged into the fuse block? If so one of those could be it. Barring that you're going to have to do it the old fashioed way by tugging on the wire until you find where it goes.

Never easy is it

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by Keyair

In doing the fuel tank and lines, I removed the tag axle wheel...
Found this interesting...
The steel wheel has this "Spacer"... wiil I need this with the Alcoa alloys?

I believe the answer is yes. The Alloys likely do not have tapered seats for the lug nuts. A tapered seat on an alloy wheel would tend to mushroom out over time. The steel ring helps distribute the clamping force and eliminates the problem of having a taper on the alloys. My old 310 used the steel clamping ring.

Brad

[Keyair]

Thanks Brad.
As stated before, my GM fuseblock in the dash drawer should have a feed, but its MIA.
I did trace the wire from the compressor as far forward as the axles, but lost it. I think it crosses over onto the drivers side there. I decided to push on with the fuel tank deal until I had more time/info.

Going to try to use my ECT200 wire tracer tomorrow!

Good info on the spacer... is there one on every wheel???

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by Keyair

Going to try to use my ECT200 wire tracer tomorrow!

Good info on the spacer... is there one on every wheel???

I'm sure you will eventually track it down!

Yes the steel rings are on every wheel.

[mayco]

My original feed FROM my compressor starts in drivers side rear compartment, crosses over to the curb side near the axle, runs along the frame rail all the way up to near the fire wall then crosses back to the street side and enters the cab under the dash all the way to the left as you face the steering wheel. Up high under the dash. Yes Brad I believe mine is yellow also.

Mike

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by Keyair

Before I get into my update...
Peter/Anyone please tell me where this "Relay/Solenoid" for the suspension compressor feed is? I know I have one on top of the engine, and another one under the hood on the drives side... but did not see a breaker/fuse on/near either...

Sorry for the late reply, been kinda busy busting my knuckles
The original compressor wire was yellow and ran to the left of the isolator to a 30 amp fuse. No relay or solenoid. From the fuse it turned into an orange wire which went up behind the dashboard. Like I said, I never looked where it went , because I only use that wire now for a relay in the back by the compressor to activate the new 8 gauge wire i ran to the battery.
Sorry for the fuzzy pictures, but I think you can get the idea.

[Keyair]

Great info guys!

Ah-HA, Peter, I did not know those little blocks were breakers!
Now I know where to look!


Brad, I saw your post about Teleflex electronic speedometers... freaked me out, cos I bought 2 new ones a couple of years back... I checked mine and they are cable driven!


While we are talking about the Teleflex gauges... is the stock Tachometer spark driven or alternator pole driven???

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by Keyair

Great info guys!

Ah-HA, Peter, I did not know those little blocks were breakers!
Now I know where to look!

I think on the 83 and 84 models the compressor was originally power from the fuse block under the dash. If yours is now connected to one of those circuit breakers I'm betting that was a PO mod. On my 310 those circuit breakers were for the electric seats.

Brad, I saw your post about Teleflex electronic speedometers... freaked me out, cos I bought 2 new ones a couple of years back... I checked mine and they are cable driven!

I also bought a speedometer a couple years ago that was cable driven. It wasn't until the last year or so that I saw one on ebay that was electronic. I prefer the electronic as it eliminates the cable and just makes easier to work with.

While we are talking about the Teleflex gauges... is the stock Tachometer spark driven or alternator pole driven???

Good question. I have a new one in the box with the original instructions. When I get home next week I report back what I find.