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Old 12-17-2015, 02:27 PM   #1581
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Steve, here is my solenoid to combine the batteries for starting. Its located behind the battery box and looks like yours, except the location of the posts.
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Old 12-17-2015, 02:56 PM   #1582
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My 1984 345 has a Isolator located where the solenoid is located in Keyair's picture.
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Old 12-17-2015, 06:28 PM   #1583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunner View Post
My 1984 345 has a Isolator located where the solenoid is located in Keyair's picture.
Does yours look like mine Gunner?
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Old 12-17-2015, 06:47 PM   #1584
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Originally Posted by PeterH-Airstreamer View Post
Steve, here is my solenoid to combine the batteries for starting. Its located behind the battery box and looks like yours, except the location of the posts.
I have something similar looking from the back, but its the cutoff switch for the House batteries...
You can see it in this shot, similar looking but a lever switch inside the drawer... the big red one is the Chassis battery cutoff.


And on the subject of HWH Levelers, my pump and reservious is located in front of the radiator...
And front leveler mounts, if you have not seen the mess I inherited, here was mine.... I cut them off as they were dangerous AND UGLY!



For those who might know the difference, here is my MH cruising, and you can hear the Flexfan noise...
Click on this pic to watch video.


No MH work today...my Individual insurance clients been calling all day!
But I did get my 80' of silicon hose... sadly, I mistakenly ordered 3/4 instead of 5/8...
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Old 12-18-2015, 07:17 AM   #1585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyair View Post
I have something similar looking from the back, but its the cutoff switch for the House batteries...
You can see it in this shot, similar looking but a lever switch inside the drawer... the big red one is the Chassis battery cutoff.


And on the subject of HWH Levelers, my pump and reservious is located in front of the radiator...
After seeing Steve's back of the battery tray, I want to take shot at his odd front solenoid:
His rig appears to have the "battery combining relay" right above his shutoff switch on the back of the battery tray.
Soo, why would there be another one in the front?
My wild guess is the Levelers. This may have been their first version of trying to incorporate a leveling system or it was installed after the fact. To avoid draining the Motor battery, they installed this relay to combine all batteries for the HWH operation.
If that would turn out to be true, Steve could route that trouble, burned wire directly to the BAT+ at the battery drawer and eliminate that terrible routing.
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Old 12-18-2015, 08:32 AM   #1586
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Ah... I wondered what that was....
My Leveling system works on the motor battery alone tho... I had the house batteries out when I was lifting the rear for the gas tank refurb... But maybe it only saw the chassis battery and that was fine..
My motorhome is weird all around, even from the factory. Having just finished reading your 310 jacket thread, I think you would appreciate some of its odd features... The factory curbside dinette instead of barrel chairs!
Now the Obamacare deadline is behind us, I will be back at the MH today, and will sketch out the wiring layout as best I can.
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Old 12-18-2015, 08:50 AM   #1587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyair View Post
Ah... I wondered what that was....
My Leveling system works on the motor battery alone tho... I had the house batteries out when I was lifting the rear for the gas tank refurb... But maybe it only saw the chassis battery and that was fine..
My motorhome is weird all around, even from the factory. Having just finished reading your 310 jacket thread, I think you would appreciate some of its odd features... The factory curbside dinette instead of barrel chairs!
Now the Obamacare deadline is behind us, I will be back at the MH today, and will sketch out the wiring layout as best I can.
Love the curbside dinette. Adds storage and great day use. Barrel chairs and wimpy table are waste of precious space to me.
Please check if you have a switch in your glove compartment, if you do it energizes the back solenoid. Do your levelers work with the ignition off?
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Old 12-18-2015, 10:15 AM   #1588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyair View Post
Does yours look like mine Gunner?
Not sure what you mean. I have the solenoid that combines the coach and engine batteries attached to the back of the battery box, also have the battery disconnect switch fastened to the back of the battery box. There is a solenoid that is fastened to the bracket that is located above the top of the engine near the front to which the cruise control vacuum module is also fastened. I have not followed those wires to see what it controls.
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Old 12-18-2015, 10:57 AM   #1589
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Peter,
My levelers only work with the ignition on. I do/did have a red plastic toggle switch in my glovebox, but it is broken and floppy... It does not appear to be connected to anything... But the electrical part behind may have fallen off, and into oblivion behind the dash! I wondered what that was. So what should it do?
I also have a momentary switch next to my ignition that I think boosts my starter battery by connecting the house too.
Will get pics later today.
Gunner, I have a solenoid on the engine bracket next to the cruise control unit. I am trying to understand the rest of this puzzle too!
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Old 12-18-2015, 11:04 AM   #1590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyair View Post
Peter,
My levelers only work with the ignition on. I do/did have a red plastic toggle switch in my glovebox, but it is broken and floppy... It does not appear to be connected to anything... But the electrical part behind may have fallen off, and into oblivion behind the dash! I wondered what that was. So what should it do?
I also have a momentary switch next to my ignition that I think boosts my starter battery by connecting the house too.
Will get pics later today.
Gunner, I have a solenoid on the engine bracket next to the cruise control unit. I am trying to understand the rest of this puzzle too!
I believe bkahler advised that the solenoid is for the starter circuit.
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Old 12-18-2015, 12:01 PM   #1591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyair View Post
Peter,
My levelers only work with the ignition on. I do/did have a red plastic toggle switch in my glovebox, but it is broken and floppy... It does not appear to be connected to anything... But the electrical part behind may have fallen off, and into oblivion behind the dash! I wondered what that was. So what should it do?
I also have a momentary switch next to my ignition that I think boosts my starter battery by connecting the house too.
Will get pics later today.
Gunner, I have a solenoid on the engine bracket next to the cruise control unit. I am trying to understand the rest of this puzzle too!
Steve, since you need to concentrate on other issues besides this wiring puzzle, i would do this:
1. Dont use the levelers
2. Leave the burned cable out for now, so you can finish your heatshield/header
3. make sure your engine battery has a full charge for starting
4. Avoid using any of the start assist switches

In the worse case scenario, you would have to connect that cable that was burned to Bat + directly, because that is where it currently is via the starter terminal (please confirm that it was connected to the Bat + terminal on the starter)
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Old 12-18-2015, 09:29 PM   #1592
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Peter, you ROCK.

That phone conversation clarified my mind, and got me on track!
Peter gave me a list of things to check and verify, and I went at it.

Starting from the source... the battery tray.
Here is how my setup looks.



Now, starting from the left(fwd), that is the "Combining solenoid", and the two thick red wires come from the Motor(LH) AND House Battery(RH).
Note the Black cable(#1) connected to the LH terminal. More of that in a bit...

Next item to the right is the House battery disconnect switch.
Note the smaller red wire connecting the RH of the combiner solenoid to the disconnect switch..
Is that too small gauge?

Note the HUGE(5/16 or 3/4 dia) Red cable on the RH side... that is the one I pulled and rerouted and takes House battery power to the relay/solenoid in the driver firewall.

The Black cable(#1) from the LH side of the combining solenoid goes fwd to...
This junction box... on the chassis rail.



From this box, is the black power cable(#2 that is removed) that goes to the starter. This is the main starter cable.

Now I started at the front firewall solenoid.
Red cable on the RH side is from House battery.



Now, on the LH side of that solenoid...
Thick Black cable with ribbed grey cover pointing UP went to starter lug(the cable that was melted).
Black cable with ribbed grey cover pointing DOWN is MAIN ALTERNATOR feed/power/charge cable.
Black cable behind this one pointing down, is main power feed for HWH Leveler pump.

Note, the Alternator power cable is pretty beefy..
In this pic I am comparing a 10 Gauge cable to the alternator feed/power cable!


My guess is it is about 2 gauge!
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Old 12-18-2015, 09:35 PM   #1593
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The end result, was I moved the melted cable from the starter lug, to the junction box connector, it reached just fine.
This meant i did not have to put 2 thick cables on the starter, and so that is back in and good.
The starter shield is good, and I added some serious heat shield material for added protection.
View from under...


Will tidy up tomorrow and hopefully start her up!
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Old 12-18-2015, 11:59 PM   #1594
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Why all the hassle?

When I look at my dash indicator lights and see one that warns me that the washer fluid is low, I wonder if there are simply way too many frills designed into these coaches. The "battery combining" feature with all it's switches and relays is an awful lot of fuss to do the job of the set of jumper cables that we're
all carrying around anyway.
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Old 12-19-2015, 12:10 AM   #1595
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When I look at my dash indicator lights and see one that warns me that the washer fluid is low, I wonder if there are simply way too many frills designed into these coaches. The "battery combining" feature with all it's switches and relays is an awful lot of fuss to do the job of the set of jumper cables that we're
all carrying around anyway.
So darn true!
Just like life.....
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Old 12-19-2015, 05:16 AM   #1596
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When I look at my dash indicator lights and see one that warns me that the washer fluid is low, I wonder if there are simply way too many frills designed into these coaches. The "battery combining" feature with all it's switches and relays is an awful lot of fuss to do the job of the set of jumper cables that we're
all carrying around anyway.
you know the answer to that trivia question. After spending 100k plus for the shiny Motorhome instead of the the Lakeside cottage, the wife wanted, there is not another 19.99 for jumper cables. Besides the dirty hands factor and advanced technical knowledge requirements ( hmmm was it red to black or black to red???)
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Old 12-19-2015, 05:36 AM   #1597
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Quote:
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Peter, you ROCK.
Enjoyed talking to you Steve. Everythings looks like we discussed. Good job.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyair View Post
Starting from the source... the battery tray.
Here is how my setup looks.



Now, starting from the left(fwd), that is the "Combining solenoid", and the two thick red wires come from the Motor(LH) AND House Battery(RH).
Note the Black cable(#1) connected to the LH terminal. More of that in a bit...

Next item to the right is the House battery disconnect switch.
Note the smaller red wire connecting the RH of the combiner solenoid to the disconnect switch..
Is that too small gauge?

Note the HUGE(5/16 or 3/4 dia) Red cable on the RH side... that is the one I pulled and rerouted and takes House battery power to the relay/solenoid in the driver firewall.
the shutoff switch for the house batteries normally only shuts off the power to the fuse panel of the coach. Why they wired that fat red wire to the right terminal is beyond me?
May be someone with more advance electrical knowledge can chime in and justify the much thinner wire on the left to be sufficient, since it is so short???
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Old 12-19-2015, 05:44 AM   #1598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyair View Post

Now I started at the front firewall solenoid.
Red cable on the RH side is from House battery.



Now, on the LH side of that solenoid...
Thick Black cable with ribbed grey cover pointing UP went to starter lug(the cable that was melted).
Black cable with ribbed grey cover pointing DOWN is MAIN ALTERNATOR feed/power/charge cable.
Black cable behind this one pointing down, is main power feed for HWH Leveler pump.

Note, the Alternator power cable is pretty beefy..
In this pic I am comparing a 10 Gauge cable to the alternator feed/power cable!
!
According to the alt charge cable, you must have a beefy alternator or you could easily add one.
The only issue I see is that only your Motor battery gets charged via the left terminal.
A very easy fix for that would be to install an Isolator just below that solenoid with the beefy alt cable going to the center of the new Isolator and one side feeding the motor bat and the other the coach batteries. (there may have been one originally).
If you do add an Isolator later, make sure it matches or exceeds the amps of your alternator.
After that you would actually have a very strong setup and could leave everything as is.
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Old 12-19-2015, 07:11 AM   #1599
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Peter,
I did not get to testing yesterday as I still need to install the fuel pressure regulator between the hard line and carb...
I am seeing 8 or 9 psi with the rear electric pump, and the carb fuel bowl needle was being overwhelmed.
I am also going to install the Zemco computer fuel flow counter there.
Also, I had missed replacing the rubber section of pipe between the mech fuel pump and return line... And Brad was correct, it is 1/4"... Tried 5/16 and it was too big! . Which is super weird because all the other return line is 5/16.
Still working on the vacuum lines... Realized I had missed the feed for the entrance step, so that is fixed now. Just a couple of smog items to add and replumb the lines to the cruise and that funny little canister... And HVAC.

I was pleased to see my alternator wire is beefy... But it was not tight on the terminal so I dealt with that! Maybe my alternator is a good one... It looks newer, but is still externally regulated. I looked up the regulator part # and its an HD item.
I too, was having voltage fluctuations at the dash meter, so I will keep an eye on it now.
I didn't think about where the house electrical feed is... I will look at that today!
Once I have the motorhome moved I will work on improvements.

I did mount the smog pump diverter valve yesterday... I tested it, and while the diaphragm does not hold vacuum, it does move the plunger... I am wondering if that is correct... It's only supposed to divert air under deceleration... Which is high vacuum... Maybe it is designed to bleed down..
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Old 12-19-2015, 07:23 AM   #1600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterH-Airstreamer View Post
the shutoff switch for the house batteries normally only shuts off the power to the fuse panel of the coach. Why they wired that fat red wire to the right terminal is beyond me?

May be someone with more advance electrical knowledge can chime in and justify the much thinner wire on the left to be sufficient, since it is so short???
Two words, voltage drop. Small wires can carry high current for very short distances but if you're running from that switch clear over to where the DC converter is then you want a heavier wire so you don't have a large voltage drop. That large red wire may be slightly over sized but I'd rather have that situation than the alternative.

Simply put, as voltage drops then current goes up which can cause wires to get hot and melt.
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