Switching Argosy 20' MH to 16" rims?

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by Boom Sounds

You can certainly pick up the tyres relatively easily and cheaply. Hankook and Nokian readily available at decent prices. Michelin are available, but costly. I run Michelin/Hankook on the fronts and Nexen Rodian on the rears.

https://www.tyres-outlet.co.uk/produ...5-r16/r-137233

In my opinion 235/85 R16s are just too wide for the rears. Weirdly, the chassis manual does seem to permit these but I can testify to the fact there is not enough clearance on the dualies....which is why I moved to the narrower wheel.

The stock is 7.50 R16s which are available and I might switch back. They give you a higher ride height than the 235/85 R16s and avoid any kissing on the rears. You would need to separate out the tubeless ones. https://www.bigtyres.co.uk/7-50r16-k...-121-120m.html

235/85R16 simply do not fit a 20ft Argosy (or at least my Argosy) because they foul the wheel well. The largest tire that would fit with Bella's wheel wells were 30in, and 235/85R16 are over 31in and bound on the wheel wheel as soon as she came off the jack and the suspension compressed. Although my receipt claims that the shop changed to 225/85R16 tires, I just physically checked and Bella has 225/75R16 tires the 85% profile would not fit, neither would 7.50R16.

[martin300662]

And FYI, stock on a short Argosy is 8.75R16.5..... 29.5mm diameter

[kidjedi]

Originally Posted by martin300662

17" wheels may fit as long as you don't install any tires, or if you can find light truck tires with less than 45% profile, as even 85% tires on 16" wheels foul the wheel wells.

I must be "thick," because I really don't understand what you are saying (but I want to!). My vehicle currently has OEM 16.5" wheels with the 8.75R16.5 tires called for in the manual.

There is 7" of space between the top of the tire and the wheel well (and I haven't even thought about replacing the leaf springs or rear shocks, so that's the clearance with potentially "bad" springs and shocks). There is 4" of space between the front/rear of the wheel well and tire. There is at least 2" between the tires (probably a little more). The closest gap that might cause concern is on the inner side (toward the center of the vehicle) of the inside wheel, where there is only 2" of clearance between the rubber and the wheel well.

I understand that if the diameter of the wheel and tire increases, I will be reducing that inside 2" gap and that could cause issues, but all of the other clearances make it seem like there is plenty of room to move to a 17" wheel (as long as the rubber is a similar ratio to the current tires and doesn't increase by much more than the same 1" in diameter as the wheel --thus increasing in all directions by only 1").

So it would seem that moving to a larger wheel/tire is impossible because of the limitations of the size of the inner dually wheel/tire. I just want to verify that this is the case to make sure I understand the situation.

Also, I am going to assume the inner dually wheel can't be offset for load bearing reasons; otherwise you could just use an inner dually wheel with an inch or so of offset to move the inner tire away from the body/wheel well and there would be plenty of room for a larger wheel/tire).

Going back to this...

Originally Posted by martin300662

17" wheels may fit as long as you don't install any tires, or if you can find light truck tires with less than 45% profile, as even 85% tires on 16" wheels foul the wheel wells.

There seem to be plenty of 17" Load E LT tires with 65, 70, 75 profiles. Are these not acceptable (will they not fit inside the wheel well on a 17" wheel without rubbing)?

Again, just trying to wrap my brain around all the specifics for my own knowledge and to be able to address the issue (for myself and others) in the future!

Thanks to all.




Incidentally, one of the more frustrating parts of all this is examining these tires more closely and seeing that they all have 100% tread... they even still have all the little rubber nubbies that new tires have. They have never been used. They are just old.

[martin300662]

This is exactly why generalizing about wheel sizes does not work on these motorhomes.

I have 225/75R16 tires (29.3in dia) and less than 1in of clearance to the rear, before the tire hits the rear face of the wheel well.

No two of these motorhomes are the same, so it it trial and error based on individual 'instances'.

[kidjedi]

Originally Posted by martin300662

This is exactly why generalizing about wheel sizes does not work on these motorhomes.

I have 225/75R16 tires (29.3in dia) and less than 1in of clearance to the rear, before the tire hits the rear face of the wheel well.

No two of these motorhomes are the same, so it it trial and error based on individual 'instances'.

That is crazy (that there is so much difference)! It doesn't even seem possible.

But what you're saying is, I can go ahead and go with the 19.5's with off-road rubber, right?!

edit: And I do think it's good to have a conversation like this hashed out here, so those who come after can see a specific illustration of how great the differences can be... and maybe they get lucky and have a more similar vehicle where the information will be pertinent.

[kidjedi]

So I'm still grappling with this, but getting ready to pull the trigger (hopefully next week).

The good news is, Discount Tire didn't bat an eye when I asked about mounting the tires and swapping them out for me. I can't figure out why NONE of the Firestone service centers in Denver would do it. One of them even said they wouldn't do 16.5" tires because their machines aren't set up for them, and they have to mount them by hand. I don't even understand what that means (I don't think the person at the counter actually knew what they were talking about).

Anyway, at Discount Tire, 6x 16.5R8.75 Firestone TransForce tires (the only tires on the planet available in this size) mounted on the original wheels will cost $1,354 out the door. Incidentally, he mentioned that they would be drawing from a local stock of 35 tires, and who knows what the manufacture date is. For $100 extra (total, not per tire) you can get a "lifetime warranty" instead of just the tread/mileage warranty.

Six ION 167 wheels plus off-brand rubber from the same place was quoted $1,824 out the door (meaning the wheels are $154 a piece, which is on the low end of what I am able to find online, so that's good). Cooper tires were a little more, which has me a little concerned, because I had been considering Cooper as the low end of what I would consider installing. The guy said 6 tires would be anywhere from $750-$1,000.

But then I specifically asked about the Michelin XLS's that everybody seems to like, and those were quoted around $1300 just for the rubber (so I'd still need to buy wheels, because they don't come in 16.5"). So those Michelins are almost twice what their "standard" would cost.

FWIW, I asked him about going up (17") vs. going down (16"), and he seemed to think that finding 16" tires would be easier (cheaper) than finding 17".

I'm going to comb the local Craigslist, Facebook Market place, etc. for 16" 8x6.5 Alcoa duallies for a couple more days, but I have a feeling I will be going with those IONs next week. I just have to make a decision on which tires.

I also need to get the 16" centramatics ordered.

[CapriRacer]

I wrote up a guide for those changing over from 16.5" tires to 16".

http://barrystiretech.com/165tires.html

It talks in generalities, not specifically about Argosy's.

I would recommend you find someone who knows what they are doing. It's easy to get this wrong!

[kidjedi]

Originally Posted by CapriRacer

I wrote up a guide for those changing over from 16.5" tires to 16".

http://barrystiretech.com/165tires.html

It talks in generalities, not specifically about Argosy's.

I would recommend you find someone who knows what they are doing. It's easy to get this wrong!

Thanks for the link. This Discount Tire location does three or four RV's a week, and I'm doing the same thing that a couple others in this thread have done (same wheels and tires), so I'm anticipating a relatively painless transition... though we all know how that usually goes.

[kidjedi]

Originally Posted by martin300662

As for Centramatics - yes, and unlike the larger wheels they are standard part numbers/always available.

Attachment 384370

I am looking at the Centramatics web page for the correct wheel balancers.

There are a couple different options for 16" 8 bolt by 6.5" spacing.

In Martin's photo, I assume we are looking at two items sitting on top of one another. And that one (the smaller on top) is for the front wheels (steer axle) and the other (larger diameter on the bottom) is for between the duallies (drive axle).

[EDIT: as I look closer, I think we're actually looking at all four, but the "top" and "bottom" reference still applies]

I think this means that I need model #400-408 for the steer axle, and model #400-409 for the drive axle (between the dually wheels).

Just wanna make sure I've got my information correct before I order.

[bkahler]

This is what I bought for mine.

Centramatic wheel balancers - front 400-408, rear 400-409.

[kidjedi]

Originally Posted by bkahler

This is what I bought for mine.

Centramatic wheel balancers - front 400-408, rear 400-409.

Perfect. That's what I'm looking at. Thanks!!!

[Belle]

We went with 16" rims on our 1978 Argosy, and never looked back. When we had some tire issues a couple of years ago while on vacation (de-lam on the treads) we were able to get replacements for those for the 16" quickly and get back on the road. If we had had the others, no telling how long we would have been dead in the water.

[kidjedi]

For the record, I ended up just going with the Firestone Transforce HT 16.5R8.75 this round. It gives me time to keep an eye out for a good deal on 16" Alcoa rims, and by the time I checked prices EVERYWHERE, it just made sense to stick with the stock wheels (and thus tires) for the time being.

I had the tires mounted at Discount Tire. They were basically the only "consumer" place that didn't bat an eye at the 16.5 wheel size. Evidently that tire has steel in the sidewall that can crease, which is why Costco, Firestone, etc. won't touch it. Firestone had quoted me $901 out the door for tires only, and then they were having their "Epic Sale" this week, which meant $100 off when you spend $500, Not only did Discount Tire match the tire price, but they honored the $100 off as well. I got six Firestone Transforce HT load E 16.5R8.75 tires balanced and mounted for $933.09 out the door. They are stamped as manufactured during the 35th week of 2020, so I'm happy with that.

For around $20/tire, Discount Tire also offers a Road Hazard Warranty that is probably a little better than other places. As long as there is 3/32" tread (which is darn near bald), they will replace and mount an un-repairable tire (large puncture, tear, blow out, etc.) at no charge. Not only that, but if there isn't a Discount Tire around, you can buy a replacement where available, and they will reimburse you.

If a tire covered by the Certificate for Repair, Refund or Replacement fails due to a defect or a non repairable road hazard, and still has legal tread (3/32") remaining across the tire, and it has been in use less than 3 years from date of purchase, Discount Tire will give a refund of the full purchase price, together with the applicable sales tax and give you the option to purchase the same new or comparable tire at the refund price, with the payment of any applicable sales tax. There is no prorating, no disqualification for any reason such as run-on damage and no mileage adjustment. It is the very best tire certificate program we know of.

The actual language states that the warranty is only good for 3 years, but I had several sales people tell me it's really for "life" and they honor the warranty long past 3 years all the time.