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09-26-2021, 01:44 AM
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#1
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1 Rivet Member
1967 26' Overlander
1975 20' Argosy 20
Swansea
, Wales
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 19
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E10 10% ethanol fuel change in UK, Impact?
In the UK from 1st Sept - petrol will move to the E10 variety. This contains up to 10% ethanol, up from 5% for the old E5 grade. Been reading some mixed warnings on how ethanol can have a corrosive effect on metal, plastic and rubber parts in the fuel system etc, especially where fuel is stored in the tank for some time.
I use my Argosy infrequently (just owning it and using it now and again makes me happy) and am likely to go weeks on end without starting it up.
So just checking in with everyone in the US whether they have needed to replace fuel lines or take other steps to make sure their older Chevy engines don't suffer from any of the hygroscopic issues and whether any additives exist to sole any issues.
I will try and seek out the 97 octane fuel when I can but this is not always available and in the UK at all stations and could be phased out in 5 years or more (depending on Gov policy of course).
Many thanks
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09-26-2021, 04:30 AM
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#2
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Keen amature
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield
, Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r1071987
In the UK from 1st Sept - petrol will move to the E10 variety. This contains up to 10% ethanol, up from 5% for the old E5 grade. Been reading some mixed warnings on how ethanol can have a corrosive effect on metal, plastic and rubber parts in the fuel system etc, especially where fuel is stored in the tank for some time.
I use my Argosy infrequently (just owning it and using it now and again makes me happy) and am likely to go weeks on end without starting it up.
So just checking in with everyone in the US whether they have needed to replace fuel lines or take other steps to make sure their older Chevy engines don't suffer from any of the hygroscopic issues and whether any additives exist to sole any issues.
I will try and seek out the 97 octane fuel when I can but this is not always available and in the UK at all stations and could be phased out in 5 years or more (depending on Gov policy of course).
Many thanks
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Frequent use of Seafoam in every tank Laurie.
US has been allowed up to E10 for some time now (driven by using the biofuel generated in the mid-west corn belt).
It rots old rubber fuel lines so make sure yours are replced with modern equivalents.
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09-26-2021, 11:07 AM
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#3
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Rivet Master
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond
, Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin300662
Frequent use of Seafoam in every tank Laurie.
US has been allowed up to E10 for some time now (driven by using the biofuel generated in the mid-west corn belt).
It rots old rubber fuel lines so make sure yours are replced with modern equivalents.
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Yep, what Martin said. Use Sea Foam religiously and replace all of your rubber fuel lines with the latest and greatest version of rubber for fuel systems.
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
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09-26-2021, 11:17 AM
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#4
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Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,740
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Hi
The more ethanol in the fuel, the faster it will become water loaded. That's just how it goes. If you could get away with 6 months on the 5% stuff, figure a lot less with 10%.
I'd bet the issue will be knowing what you actually are getting at the pump. Here it's very common to see "up to 10%" stickers, but nothing at all about what really is in the gas. Yes, this varies and some states are better than others in this regard.
Bob
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09-26-2021, 12:09 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
1972 25' Tradewind
1976 31' Excella 500
1974 31' Excella 500
1975 24' Argosy 24
Denver
, Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,106
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While Sea Foam is probably better than *not* using anything, here is a quote directly from Sea Foam that points out the product can give a false sense of security for long(ish) term storage...
Quote:
Two answers: (1) One rule of thumb is avoid ethanol gasoline for any auto or motorcycle engine older than the late nineties. Your old Fords are not built from ethanol-proof fuel system parts that are able to resist the corrosive combination of ethyl alcohol and water. Just too risky! (2) Because Sea Foam adds protective lubricity to fuel and fuel system parts, it will always help. Even though Sea Foam will help protect against ethanol and water, be careful not to buy into any false sense of security that a fuel additive is going to completely counter the harmful effects of ethanol, particularly when left in a tank for a long period of time. It’s also important to add that ethanol works very well in modern engine fuel systems that are built for it. No worries there.
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09-26-2021, 12:36 PM
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#6
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Site Team
1994 25' Excella
Waukesha
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 5,576
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One thing I have found with my older gasoline equipment is that they all do better with regular use. The newer fuel doesn't store well, and frequent use means less storage time. So, saddle up and hit the road more often, is my advice.
If course, having compatible fuel lines is also necessary.
__________________
Richard
11018
1994 Excella 25 Follow the build on Gertie!
1999 Suburban LS 2500 w/7.4L V8
1974 GMC 4108a - Custom Coach Land Cruiser (Sold)
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09-26-2021, 02:26 PM
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#7
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1 Rivet Member
1967 26' Overlander
1975 20' Argosy 20
Swansea
, Wales
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 19
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Brilliant - thanks all. I will check the fuel lines ASAP and take a look at Sea Foam.
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09-26-2021, 08:34 PM
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#8
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Rivet Master
1988 32' Excella
Robbinsville
, New Jersey
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,164
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I use "Biobor EB" in all my equipment with small engines, it's suppose to help reduce the damage caused by ethanol and help for storing fuel.
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09-27-2021, 09:54 AM
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#9
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Rivet Master
2021 20' Caravel
Plaistow
, New Hampshire
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 712
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We use stabilizer in anything where the fuel sits for any length of time. No shelf life.
__________________
Learning and enjoying as we go !
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09-27-2021, 03:04 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
2012 23' FB International
Woodstock
, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,426
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Agree use a fuel stabilizer. Seafoam is an injection cleaner
JCW
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09-27-2021, 04:54 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
2021 30' Globetrotter
Oviedo
, Florida
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,372
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We have stations that offer ethanol free gas (Wawa for example). When I buy gas for my emergency generator I use that since it will be sitting around for a while. Do you have that option in the UK? It’s more expensive but might suit your usage.
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09-27-2021, 05:14 PM
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#12
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Rivet Master
2019 22' Sport
High River
, Alberta
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,193
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In Canada at least, premium fuel is less likely to have alcohol in it. I buy premium for my lawnmower. What’s left in the Jerry can goes into my car in November each year.
For small engines like generators, a product like Aspen fuel is far more stable if you’re willing to pay the high price. I’ve only seen fire departments buy it to carry on their trucks to fuel their small engines.
Otherwise, consider using a fuel stabilizer like Sta-bil.
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09-28-2021, 01:55 PM
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#13
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1 Rivet Member
1967 26' Overlander
1975 20' Argosy 20
Swansea
, Wales
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 19
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Thanks all for the Fuel Stabilizer info - will research what's available in UK.
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09-28-2021, 02:51 PM
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#14
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin300662
Frequent use of Seafoam in every tank Laurie.
US has been allowed up to E10 for some time now (driven by using the biofuel generated in the mid-west corn belt).
It rots old rubber fuel lines so make sure yours are replced with modern equivalents.
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Seafoam is primarily a CLEANER...I use it in our Mercury outboard as a injection and,(sprayed directly in), cylinder bore, treatment for storage. None in fuel tank.
Sta-bil is the fuel stabilizer I use in the 53 Ford, Burb during the off Season, and all power equipment not used in Winter.👍
I did no fuel system mods when e85 first came out in our 53 ford, just added Sta-Bil year around. When e-free became locally available about 10yrs ago I started using it in everything petrol powered.
When towing I use efree when we can find it and any 87oct available when not.
High oct only benefits the engines designed for it, or if you have a tuner and can change engine settings.( I do have said Tuner but leave it on the 'Towing' tune.)
TETO
Bob
🇺🇸
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
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09-28-2021, 03:10 PM
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#15
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3 Rivet Member
2021 27' International
Raleigh
, North Carolina
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 219
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My Tahoe is E85 "Flex-Fuel" rated but its hard to find that stuff and honestly it runs terribly on it (gas mileage suffers, engine runs hotter and at a higher RPM). The same fuel station that sells E85 near my house also sells E-free gas... so that's what I buy.
I've noticed that I can use cruise control more consistently and more often while towing when the Tahoe is running E-free gas. I can tow up large hills at a slightly lower RPM. Acceleration feels better.
However, if I run a tank or two of E10 and then immediately fill up to tow on E-free, I'm not sure if I'm getting the full benefit. I believe the ECM adjusts over time and it may take a tank or two for the computer to make adjustments to the engine. My Volvo explicitly states this in the manual (albeit, regarding 87 octane vs. 93 octane which it recommends).
You may look into having your truck modified with an engine tuning system that can optimize the engine's performance based on the type of fuel you are using at that instant and what you want to do (getting groceries vs. towing). If my car were worth a little more, I'd probably do that myself.
__________________
-Brad
2021 International 27FBT
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09-28-2021, 03:38 PM
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#16
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4 Rivet Member
2024 19' Caravel
Washougal
, Washington
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 337
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From having seen this come in, in my area - one of the first things you should prepare yourself for is changing the fuel filter a few months into ethanol use. For some reason, the ethanol tends to break loose some fuel system deposits in the tank and lines, and those are (thankfully) trapped by the fuel filter.
May I tag on to what Bob said, offer a viewpoint based on years of use in marine environments. Bob is correct in recommending Sta-bil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS
Sta-bil is the fuel stabilizer I use in the 53 Ford, Burb during the off Season, and all power equipment not used in Winter...
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If it's available for you, Sta-bil MARINE is what you want, here's a link: https://www.amazon.com/STA-BIL-22240.../dp/B001CAW2DK
This is the only thing that I have seen that specifically guards against the type of damage caused from ethanol. I was clued into it long ago by a friend who had a powerboat ('stink-pot' - I was a 'rag-flapper' with an "iron spinnaker"). Since then, I have used it in my outboard's tank, and specifically my old tractors; never had a fuel-related problem with them, no matter how long they sat.
Hope that helps.
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09-28-2021, 09:36 PM
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#17
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Rivet Master
1995 25' Excella
xxxxx
, xxxxxx
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,351
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I have two 70's vehicles and two 80's vehicles. I have been using 10% ethanol for years. All have original fuel lines. Never a problem. I have a 1985 inboard boat engine that also had had 10% ethanol for years. Never have had a fuel related issue. I did rebuild the carb when the boat was 24 years old just because it was time.
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10-11-2021, 12:01 PM
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#18
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Rivet Master
2021 30' Flying Cloud
Airstream - Other
Airstream - Other
Lady Lake
, Florida
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,184
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E10
On your vehicle you will be more worried about water absorption which then leads to lower octane and the fuel degradation.
I am not a fan of stabil as it does not burn in the combustion chamber. It will preserve fuel.
A product called K -100 is superior in my testing as it stops the fuel from breaking and literally burns water.
A carb engine suffers more on e-10 than a fuel injection system. I’ve see concentration of 15-30 percent when I test station fuel.
You can check k-100 fuel on the Web. I am not a dealer
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10-12-2021, 01:59 AM
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#19
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1 Rivet Member
1967 26' Overlander
1975 20' Argosy 20
Swansea
, Wales
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Life is a Highway
On your vehicle you will be more worried about water absorption which then leads to lower octane and the fuel degradation.
I am not a fan of stabil as it does not burn in the combustion chamber. It will preserve fuel.
A product called K -100 is superior in my testing as it stops the fuel from breaking and literally burns water.
A carb engine suffers more on e-10 than a fuel injection system. I’ve see concentration of 15-30 percent when I test station fuel.
You can check k-100 fuel on the Web. I am not a dealer
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Thanks for this - not heard of K-100 before, but will check it out and we can get it in the UK.
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10-13-2021, 07:02 AM
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#20
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Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Life is a Highway
...... literally burns water.
......
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Hi
It would be interesting to see the chemistry backup data on setting water on fire .....
Bob
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