Diskotrek - 1975 Argosy 24

[kidjedi]

The Progressive Dynamics Inteli-power PD9270 arrived today. I can't believe how light it is!

The TRIAD/UTRAD TU-334 weighs 30 pounds 8 ounces. The Inteli-power 9270 weighs 5 pounds 12 oz. with a very heavy umbilical cord already attached (so it likely weighs even less). The weight difference alone is enough to answer the question "why should I update my converter?" But if that isn't enough for you, the original univolt puts out 30 amps max, while the 9270 puts out 70 amps!

I am getting ready to wire it up, but wanted to ask about this...

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f31...ml#post2232362

In the thread/post above, Peter mentions hooking up a 9V power supply to the small white wire coming from the original univolt (which is attached to a fuse marked "Power On Gray SFE 4" on my original 12v fuse panel). There is some debate in the thread as to what voltage and whether ac/dc, but I think the important thing is that the original Univolt has a wire that sends current to the Vehicle's House Control Panel which illuminates when the univolt (now Inteli-Power) produces current.

Just wanted to check and see if anyone else has done this.

EDIT: I forgot I was going to also mention... the original univolt didn't have any sort of chassis ground. I don't know if it was relying on the ground from the 120v plug, or if it just didn't use one, but the InteliPower definitely has a lug to run a ground to the chassis. Just mentioning this to see if anyone had thoughts about why the univolt didn't bother with one, and letting any future readers know they aren't crazy if they're trying to figure out where the original chassis ground for the univolt is!

[kidjedi]

$20 for 20 600 lumen soft white bulbs. That'll replace all of them but one (grrrr). So all the interior lights (except one in the bathroom fixture) are now LED.

I let my waste tanks sit full for a couple of days, and now the (previously stuck) valves will slide open. Huzzah! The level indicators on the control panel seem to work as well, though they aren't very precise!

I'm getting ready to cut a hole in the wall of the closet beside the door. The hole will become an access panel for storage by the exit, but it's original purpose is to be able to install a microwave in that closet (the door is too narrow to slide in a 19" wide microwave). I also removed the door and will flip it over and rivet it to the other side so it opens the other way. One bedroom closet for the bedroom, one "bedroom closet" for the galley.

I removed the ceiling vent screens and threw out years of dead bugs, and will add PIC insulation to the vent lid.

Looking at moving the Converter to the driver's side below-deck compartment where I was planning on placing the house batteries, but also considering moving the house batteries to the below-deck compartment on the passenger side just forward of the fuel tank. That compartment is below where the univolt used to sit in the dinette bench seat (where the new Converter is sitting at the moment), so maybe there would be fewer wires to run.

I will definitely be installing more electrical and 12v outlets, as well as more LED lighting. I am baffled by the poor placement of electrical outlets. Why are all the outlets so far from the shelves and ledges that are obviously made to hold the stuff that needs plugged in?!

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by kidjedi

The Progressive Dynamics Inteli-power PD9270 arrived today. I can't believe how light it is!

The TRIAD/UTRAD TU-334 weighs 30 pounds 8 ounces. The Inteli-power 9270 weighs 5 pounds 12 oz. with a very heavy umbilical cord already attached (so it likely weighs even less). The weight difference alone is enough to answer the question "why should I update my converter?" But if that isn't enough for you, the original univolt puts out 30 amps max, while the 9270 puts out 70 amps!

I am getting ready to wire it up, but wanted to ask about this...

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f31...ml#post2232362

In the thread/post above, Peter mentions hooking up a 9V power supply to the small white wire coming from the original univolt (which is attached to a fuse marked "Power On Gray SFE 4" on my original 12v fuse panel). There is some debate in the thread as to what voltage and whether ac/dc, but I think the important thing is that the original Univolt has a wire that sends current to the Vehicle's House Control Panel which illuminates when the univolt (now Inteli-Power) produces current.

Just wanted to check and see if anyone else has done this.

EDIT: I forgot I was going to also mention... the original univolt didn't have any sort of chassis ground. I don't know if it was relying on the ground from the 120v plug, or if it just didn't use one, but the InteliPower definitely has a lug to run a ground to the chassis. Just mentioning this to see if anyone had thoughts about why the univolt didn't bother with one, and letting any future readers know they aren't crazy if they're trying to figure out where the original chassis ground for the univolt is!

I have the 9V DC for the AC indicator currently working just fine in my 350.
A word of caution: I was told going ~10 amps over the original univolt rating is fine and pretty much desired. Going from 30 to 70 seems to be risky using the original wiring. I would have used a PD9245. Maybe others can chime in on this subject.
nice looking rig.

[kidjedi]

Originally Posted by PeterH-Airstreamer

A word of caution: I was told going ~10 amps over the original univolt rating is fine and pretty much desired. Going from 30 to 70 seems to be risky using the original wiring. I would have used a PD9245. Maybe others can chime in on this subject.
nice looking rig.

I don't think a higher amp unit will be a problem for the actual 12v accessories and lighting. It may have been an issue for something with charging if the wire gauge was small, but the previous owner had already installed a shut-off/house/motor switch and upgraded the cables from the univolt to the switch, batteries, and alternator. As I understand it, a unit with more amps is just able to supply more, it won't try and "force" anything through (and from what I read before making my purchase, higher amperage is also better for charging batteries, and I'm definitely adding more batteries than what the original configuration had).

[kidjedi]

Today the Diskotrek got a bath (and then of course it rained).

It was more for the underside anyway. There was SO MUCH crud under there. Still... not too much rust, and only a couple places where I'll need to reinforce some of the panels to seal up the under carriage storage.

Second item for the day was installing the side access panel in the "kitchen pantry" closet and installing bracing for the shelving in there.

After that I removed the ridiculously cheap and crappy original galley faucet and installed a late 70's vintage Moen single-hole, glacier white, pull-out kitchen faucet. I love it, and it's SO much more functional.

Today I also had the awning out (before the rain) and it seems to be in perfect, functioning condition. Yahoo!!! I did have to fiddle with the "release" lever a bit to get it rolling. The lever itself was VERY stuck, so I used a bunch of penetrating oil and then did a lot of wiggling and jiggling per the instruction of so many people on the internet with the same Dometic awning.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by kidjedi

I don't think a higher amp unit will be a problem for the actual 12v accessories and lighting. It may have been an issue for something with charging if the wire gauge was small, but the previous owner had already installed a shut-off/house/motor switch and upgraded the cables from the univolt to the switch, batteries, and alternator. As I understand it, a unit with more amps is just able to supply more, it won't try and "force" anything through (and from what I read before making my purchase, higher amperage is also better for charging batteries, and I'm definitely adding more batteries than what the original configuration had).

The problem comes when your battery is dead and the charger is trying to charge the battery. 70 amps going through a wire that is too small can lead to a fire. The wire you want to upgrade is the one going from the charger to the battery. Most if not all other circuits should be fine.

Brad

[kidjedi]

Originally Posted by bkahler

The problem comes when your battery is dead and the charger is trying to charge the battery. 70 amps going through a wire that is too small can lead to a fire. The wire you want to upgrade is the one going from the charger to the battery. Most if not all other circuits should be fine.

Exactly. As mentioned, the previous owner had already upgraded the wires (more like cables) running from the Univolt to the battery compartment, so I'm confident the gauge is plenty to support the 70amp Converter upgrade. I haven't put a thickness caliper on them, but they look like they're 1/0 stranded copper. Plenty thick.

Thanks for chiming in, Brad!

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by bkahler

The problem comes when your battery is dead and the charger is trying to charge the battery. 70 amps going through a wire that is too small can lead to a fire. The wire you want to upgrade is the one going from the charger to the battery. Most if not all other circuits should be fine.

Brad

That's on the output side of the converter. The PD9245 uses 750 watts, the PD9270 1250 watts. Thats over 4 amps more that I know the AC would rather have as a buffer down here in the south. Those 110v breakers and 30 amp power cords get awful hot and I have seen them melt more than three times.
Not sure I would want a converter that continuously (I assume) draws 10 + amps, the PD9260, I use at 8.3 amps is bad enough.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by PeterH-Airstreamer

That's on the output side of the converter. The PD9245 uses 750 watts, the PD9270 1250 watts. Thats over 4 amps more that I know the AC would rather have as a buffer down here in the south. Those 110v breakers and 30 amp power cords get awful hot and I have seen them melt more than three times.
Not sure I would want a converter that continuously (I assume) draws 10 + amps, the PD9260, I use at 8.3 amps is bad enough.

Peter,

The internal 120 vac wiring inside coaches is 12 gauge romex which is good for 20 amps. That doesn't mean heat in the cable isn't being generated but it means the cable and the sheath are rated for the heat.

The issue with the shore power cords melting at their connection with shore power is due to the overall load from the coach being to much for the 30 amp connector.

However, I'm not convinced the whole problem is the current draw. I think part of the problem is inside the outlet boxes we plug our shore power cords into. Eventually the female connectors start to get dirty and also lose some of their clamping pressure. As with any electrical connector, if it's loose and/or dirty that creates a high resistance situation at the connection which in turn generates heat. Do this enough times and something is going to melt.

I can only imagine the condition of the shore power outlets in campgrounds. I'm guessing most of them should be replaced every few years but I'll bet money that never happens!

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Peter,

The internal 120 vac wiring inside coaches is 12 gauge romex which is good for 20 amps. That doesn't mean heat in the cable isn't being generated but it means the cable and the sheath are rated for the heat.

The issue with the shore power cords melting at their connection with shore power is due to the overall load from the coach being to much for the 30 amp connector.

However, I'm not convinced the whole problem is the current draw. I think part of the problem is inside the outlet boxes we plug our shore power cords into. Eventually the female connectors start to get dirty and also lose some of their clamping pressure. As with any electrical connector, if it's loose and/or dirty that creates a high resistance situation at the connection which in turn generates heat. Do this enough times and something is going to melt.

I can only imagine the condition of the shore power outlets in campgrounds. I'm guessing most of them should be replaced every few years but I'll bet money that never happens!

Yes, understood. Just to clarify, my post was about the sum of power usage running all the appliances (AC, Fridge, Converter plus whatever else you may have plugged in). using a 10 plus amp converter will get you even closer to your 30 amp limit

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by PeterH-Airstreamer

Yes, understood. Just to clarify, my post was about the sum of power usage running all the appliances (AC, Fridge, Converter plus whatever else you may have plugged in). using a 10 plus amp converter will get you even closer to your 30 amp limit

Or very easily over the 30 amp limit. The Classics have that rotating selector switch for a reason!

[GPurcell]

This is very cool! Definitely will follow along

[Gregsch]

Not sure what you are doing about the fuel tank but, I would recommend removing it ,cleaning it and checking the condition of the pick-up tube and the filter on the end of the pick-up tube while you are at it. Also be advised there may be several sections of rubber fuel line involved. Mine has a section of rubber at the tank, one about half way along the fuel rail and one at the fuel pump mounted on the engine. Don't forget about the fuel return line as well. Modern fuel with ethanol tends to eat the old fuel lines especially when they are old and rotten to start with. The new fuel line you buy today will be resistant to modern fuels. Many of us on the site have been where you are today, some of us several times. Don't hesitate to post questions on the Forum.
Best wishes!
Greg

[kidjedi]

I took care of the blocked fuel line this morning.

The previous owner had already cut an access port in the floor above the fuel tank, so I am able to access the fuel sender and fuel lines without dropping the tank. This is a HUGE plus to servicing this vehicle.

Having this access also makes the idea of an in-tank pump that much more appealing (I wouldn't have to drop the tank to service the in-tank pump), but even so, after having everything apart and seeing how everything works, I think I will forgo the in-tank pump and just use the Carter very close to the tank. It's just that much easier to service. Having a length of fuel line between the fuel sender and the pump *technically* opens things up for the possibility of vapor lock in that portion of the fuel line, but after seeing the Carter function (it's powerful!), I'm not too worried.

This is the sender...



You can see the "sock" at the bottom where the fuel gets sucked up from the bottom of the tank. Not only was the sock filter completely saturated with gunk, but there were balls of black rubbery goo in there as well, some as large as a pea. That same black stuff was also completely blocking the uptake tube.

Here is what I scraped out of the uptake tube with an ice pick and compressed air...



Now that I've got the fuel sender cleared out and everything with the sender seems to be functioning well (the float, etc.), I'm going to head down to the local parts place and grab a fuel sock and put everything back together.

EDIT: I need to do some more reading, but I'm hoping I can clean out the tank via the access port in the floor so I don't have to drop the tank. I assume some sort of pressure and/or steam is the preferred method for cleaning? I know I will need to completely remove any moisture from inside the tank when I'm finished, so maybe this isn't the best method?

[kidjedi]

It was pretty amazing to me how difficult it was to find a fuel pump strainer (the sock) for the sending unit. No auto parts store had one (I visited three different chains), and all of them had a tremendously hard time even figure out what I needed! Strange, considering how ubiquitous this 454 Chevy engine is.

So, for others looking... the "sock" fuel filter/strainer that attaches to the fuel uptake on the fuel sending unit is a 3/8" inside diameter push on fuel strainer.

The closest thing I could find via the auto parts chains (though it still needed to be special ordered) was at O'Reilley's. They found the TS1021, which is an ACDelco Fuel Pump strainer with a 3/8" push on fitting. This strainer differs from the original in that it is a side attachment, but I don't see why that would hurt anything. In fact, I think the fact that it attaches in the middle of the "sock" means it will probably stay flowing longer vs. something that attaches at the end of the sock.

So I came home empty handed, and will be ordering something online (either Amazon or Summit). There seem to be PLENTY of available replacements going this route.

Restoparts makes a replacement called "Manufactured Fuel Sending Unit Strainer Socks CH28638" available via Summit: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/opg-ch28638

Summit also has OER K405: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/oer-k405



For someone looking, those numbers should at least help in finding something that works!

[kidjedi]

A recap list of what's been done so far...

• replaced all rubber fuel lines
• emptied and cleaned Fuel tank
• replaced fuel sender in-tank "sock" filter
• added K&N 81-0300 glass in-line fuel filter before new fuel pump
• Installed Carter P4070 electric fuel pump at fuel tank
• Replaced UniVolt with Progressive Dynamics Inteli-power PD9270
• relocated starting battery from behind the grill to belly compartment (group 78 Interstate battery from Costco with three year warranty)
• relocated house battery from behind the grill to belly compartment (replaced w/ two Deka Unigy 1 12v 96AH AGM batteries)
• thoroughly flushed radiator and coolant lines
• replaced coolant reservoir (Dorman 603-100)
• removed all in-dash a/c components (hoses, compressor, radiator, etc.)
• replaced engine temp. sender wire
• oil/filter change (Mobil1 10W30 High Mileage full synthetic; Purolator PL34631)
• replaced all interior bulbs with LED
• installed new 20amp 120v circuit from main breaker to "pantry closet" for toaster oven and microwave
• installed new 12v wall mount 24" LCD television (19v LG with voltage upconverter)
• installed new 12v line for television
• installed closet side-access panel beside door for shoes and other sundries
• installed 120v outlet at bedside nightstand
• (edit) forgot I replaced the coolant thermostat and gasket!

I think that about covers it. Obviously there was also a WHOLE LOT of cleaning, and I've begun buffing out the super-cool 70's paint job with Meguiar's #67 Marine/RV one step compound.

Now I just need $1,200+ so I can buy all new rubber and get on the road!

[bkahler]

So....what are you going to do for fun when the work is all done?

[kidjedi]

Originally Posted by bkahler

So....what are you going to do for fun when the work is all done?

Riiiiiight.

Well... there's a 31' Excella in the yard that's currently off the chassis, plus I've got two 8' end sections of another Excella that I'm planning on turning into a *very off road* build. Not to mention I've got my eye on a 1976 GMC motorhome that makes me feel like a kid with Hot Wheels.

But right now I have to figure out how I'm supposed to service the Onan Genny in the rear of this Argosy. It's crammed into that tiny little rear storage compartment, and there doesn't seem to be ANY way to access it or get it out, and I need to see why it's not firing (not to mention I need to service everything on it, as it hasn't been started in years).

[kidjedi]

Messing around underneath today, moving wires, fixing the horn, cleaning out gunk, etc.

The airbags inside the front springs have enough air to make a sound when I let air out, but not enough to register on a pressure gauge. At what pressure do people run their front spring airbags? I can't find any information in the manual.

[bkahler]

As far as I know 55 psi is the recommended pressure.