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Old 10-19-2020, 03:53 PM   #61
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I'm under the impression that pressure is not a requirement on our systems because they are 'open' with surplus returning to the tank. You just have to make sure it has enough suck/push to deliver enough volume for the carb not to starve.
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Old 10-19-2020, 04:02 PM   #62
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I'm under the impression that pressure is not a requirement on our systems because they are 'open' with surplus returning to the tank. You just have to make sure it has enough suck/push to deliver enough volume for the carb not to starve.
I also have the significant volume of a Racor Parker S3227 fuel filter/separator between the electric pump and the carb so it takes a few seconds to prime the line before I try to start. So ignition on, wait, then start.
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Old 10-19-2020, 04:13 PM   #63
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I just put the gauge on my Jeep and it's at 9 psi right where it should be. I think I've got a bad pump. That is pretty disappointing considering how much time I've spent on this issue. I guess it goes to show: just because you have a brand new part doesn't mean you've solved the problem.
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Old 10-19-2020, 04:23 PM   #64
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I just put the gauge on my Jeep and it's at 9 psi right where it should be. I think I've got a bad pump. That is pretty disappointing considering how much time I've spent on this issue. I guess it goes to show: just because you have a brand new part doesn't mean you've solved the problem.

Make sure is a genuine carter made in US and not a china knockoff, lots of bad reviews
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Old 10-19-2020, 04:33 PM   #65
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Make sure is a genuine carter made in US and not a china knockoff, lots of bad reviews
It came in a Carter box with all the "official looking" Carter literature (not xeroxed copies), but I guess that doesn't mean anything these days. I did purchase from the exact same Amazon link you posted, so it is in fact the same source as that review...

I just sort of glanced over the reviews when I purchased because pretty much everyone was recommending this pump. I guess I didn't consider the fact that Amazon might be selling something that isn't actually what it is supposed to be. Extremely frustrating.

I guess I'll try ordering from Summit instead, and hope I get better results (and at least have a course of action if it's another dud).
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Old 10-19-2020, 04:41 PM   #66
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It came in a Carter box with all the "official looking" Carter literature (not xeroxed copies), but I guess that doesn't mean anything these days. I did purchase from the exact same Amazon link you posted, so it is in fact the same source as that review...

I just sort of glanced over the reviews when I purchased because pretty much everyone was recommending this pump. I guess I didn't consider the fact that Amazon might be selling something that isn't actually what it is supposed to be. Extremely frustrating.

I guess I'll try ordering from Summit instead, and hope I get better results (and at least have a course of action if it's another dud).

Yes, very frustrating. Besides the hassle, at least Amazon is pretty good about returns.
Since "new" doesn't mean anything in regards to quality and function,
for preventative maintenance (and not like your upgrades), I have made it a habit to replace a working item with an OEM one. The working item goes in the spares bin.
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Old 10-19-2020, 07:55 PM   #67
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Besides the hassle, at least Amazon is pretty good about returns.
As long as you're within their 30 day window. Since I've been trying to figure this out for two months, I am unable to return the non-working pump they sold me. I will see if I can do any kind of warranty return with Carter, but my past experience with factory warranties and products bought from Amazon have been a no go. I guess that should be enough to tell me buying from Amazon is a gamble in regard to gray market and counterfeit products.
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Old 10-20-2020, 04:26 PM   #68
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Pulled the four year old 2.5-4psi $20 Chinese fuel pump (it's just auxiliary lift) from the Jeep just "to see." World of difference. Feels like I could drive right up the mountain now. I can't believe I spent so much time on other stuff. I guess the upside is that I know a lot more about carburetors now.
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Old 10-20-2020, 04:31 PM   #69
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Pulled the four year old 2.5-4psi $20 Chinese fuel pump (it's just auxiliary lift) from the Jeep just "to see." World of difference. Feels like I could drive right up the mountain now. I can't believe I spent so much time on other stuff. I guess the upside is that I know a lot more about carburetors now.

On the job training
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Old 10-21-2020, 12:22 PM   #70
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I believe the Carter P4070 is more to provide "volume" of fuel to the mechanical pump which creates the required "pressure to the carburetor".

As I understand it the basic problem is the mechanical pump can't pull enough fuel from the tank due to it's great distance from the tank. The electric pump provides a high volume of low pressure fuel to the mechanical pump which in turn turns it high pressure low volume to the carburetor.

If you're only running with the electric pump on a 454 then I would expect problems from time to time depending on temperature, hills, etc.
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Old 10-21-2020, 03:32 PM   #71
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Quote:
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I believe the Carter P4070 is more to provide "volume" of fuel to the mechanical pump which creates the required "pressure to the carburetor".
After reviewing a lot of threads and information, it seemed like removing the mechanical pump was the way to go. And then it turned out I didn't have to, because the previous owner had already removed it. My vehicle just has a line out of the tank, an electric fuel pump, and straight to the carb.

And if and if the Carter is not even providing the spec'd 4-8psi (because the pump is bad), then any kind of load is going to starve (which is why I couldn't go).

Quote:
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If you're only running with the electric pump on a 454 then I would expect problems from time to time depending on temperature, hills, etc.
I think there are a lot of 454's (not only RV's, but also muscle cars, etc.) that are running only electric pumps.

I ordered a cheap ($25) electric pump for a "band-aid" while I see if I can warranty exchange the Carter. I think a little 4-9psi 12v pump is a good thing to have around anyway (even if just for transferring fuel).

When I "fix it right," I'm thinking about using a slightly higher PSI electric pump with a pressure regulator right before the carb.
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Old 10-27-2020, 10:52 AM   #72
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Well, it got COLD two nights ago. Like, real cold. Like 4 degrees Fahrenheit cold.

When it was 80 during the day (three days ago) the furnace worked like a champ. Now of course it won't light. When I turn the furnace on at the thermostat, I get the 20 seconds of fan blowing, then a click, then nothing happens. The furnace does not go into lock out mode, and the fan just keeps blowing.

So first I did everything I could think of while it was still installed. I removed and checked the burner tube (clean) and ignitor (no carbon build up or corrosion, slightly bent, so adjusted that to no avail). I had another furnace from a 1976 Excella 500 laying around, and I swapped out the limiter switch because it looked newer (I know that doesn't mean anything, but hey...). I checked the voltage at the plug, and it's reading 14.6, so plenty of power. I loosened the gas line nut to bleed out any potential air.

None of these things solved the problem, so realized I would need to pull it to figure out the problem. Thus, I removed the stove (the furnace is below the stove), and then pulled the furnace.

[As a side note... that's a pretty bad location for the furnace. When the furnace is running, it's pulling a lot of interior air, and most of that air is coming from around and above the furnace. This means you can't run the furnace while you're using the range, because the furnace is pulling all that air down, and the flames on your range burner are all going *down* (if they can even stay lit). And if they don't stay lit and you don't see the flame go out, you are pumping propane into your trailer while the furnace is running.]

I've been reading furnace threads all morning.

The furnace is a Suburban NT30 8 (there is an "8" stamped next to the NT30, though I haven't been able to find anyone else talking about an "8").

The serial number falls outside of all the recalls from the 60's and 70's, so I at least now have that peace of mind.

Lot's of mentions of the sail switch, so as soon as it warms up a bit today, I will find and inspect that.

Looking at the service manual I found here, I am now looking at this stage of operation:

Quote:
The module board checks that the gas valve relay contacts (which are located on themodule board) are open before the ignition sequence starts.



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Old 10-27-2020, 02:54 PM   #73
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did u swap out the circuit board from your old furnace?
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Old 10-27-2020, 02:58 PM   #74
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did u swap out the circuit board from your old furnace?
I have been trying to exhaust all other options before going that route, but I'm just about there. And then if that doesn't work... I guess I'll be looking for replacement options.
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Old 10-27-2020, 03:05 PM   #75
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I have been trying to exhaust all other options before going that route, but I'm just about there. And then if that doesn't work... I guess I'll be looking for replacement options.
I had a furnace that did exactly what your describing and it was the stupid 4wire plug to the circuit board loosing contact. unplug replug would fix it everytime
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Old 10-27-2020, 03:09 PM   #76
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I had a furnace that did exactly what your describing and it was the stupid 4wire plug to the circuit board loosing contact. unplug replug would fix it everytime
Yeah... right now I'm unplugging all those circuit board wires, scrubbing off the connections with steel wool and deoxit, then plugging back in hoping it will fix it.
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Old 10-31-2020, 05:42 PM   #77
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So I've been chasing vacuum hoses and learning online about vintage automobile HVAC systems all morning (and now into the evening). The adventure started by trying to solve the problem of no air flow coming from my vents when dash HVAC fan is on. The previous owner installed TWO extra fans to move dash air (so I have THREE, big, loud fans that push HVAC air), but even with everything on (or even just one fan on), still nothing was coming out of the floor or dash vents. There is actually a FOURTH fan with its own switch that moves air only through the defroster vents, and that works fine (though the dash controlled HVAC doesn't push defrost air on the defrost setting).

By tracing HVAC vacuum lines, I figured out that the things that look like bicycle bells just on the front side of the fire wall are actuators that open and close the flaps to reroute the dash air. I can manipulate them manually to get airflow to the floor and dash vents (so if all else fails, I can
"lock" them open so I'm at least getting dash heat airflow in the cabin). There is also a line that runs from the dash HVAC controls to what looks like a coffee can mounted on the front side of the firewall. A larger line comes out of that and runs back beside the motor (I can access it via the dog house), but that larger line is not hooked up to anything (just flopping around).

I assume the coffee can is a poor man's vacuum reservoir, and the large tube that runs back to the engine compartment should be attached to the carb or manifold somewhere, but I don't see anything obvious. So I'm assuming that if all my lines and actuators are good and the coffee can is functioning like an actual reservoir that is sealed tight with no leaks, once I get the large hose back at the engine hooked up to something with suction I should be able to reroute HVAC air properly from the dash.

However, there is no check valve anywhere in this existing system, and from what I'm reading, I think that's an important part of the equation to keep the vacuum present when their is no "suck" coming from the engine.

The dash A/C has been removed, so it seems like just locking the vent actuators open is going to be the easiest solution to this problem. I've got plenty of air flow from a plethora of fans, and the defrost has it's own fan, so I'm not sure there will ever be a situation where I need to route the vents differently (fan on, fan off, seems all that is really necessary without the presence of an A/C).
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Old 10-31-2020, 05:44 PM   #78
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Oh... forgot to mention that after pulling the furnace and cleaning everything off, it works like a dream. I actually can't believe how quiet it is and that it pushes enough hot air to the bedroom in back of the Argosy, but it does! I wonder which of the many things I did was the thing that fixed it? At least now I know it's clean, and quite, and all hooked up and sealed up like it should be.
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Old 10-31-2020, 06:08 PM   #79
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Could you post a picture of the firewall from the engine side showing the vacuum canister?

Also you mention that the AC has been removed. Are you referring to the compressor or the whole thing?

I have a 75 24' that I'm going to be dismantling for parts this winter and I'm pretty sure it has the complete AC system still installed.

Brad
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Old 10-31-2020, 06:32 PM   #80
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Quote:
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Could you post a picture of the firewall from the engine side showing the vacuum canister?
I've been having issues with getting photos to upload to my server via mobile (why I haven't posted any pics of all this stuff). However, I tee'd into the vacuum line that runs from the top of the engine to the transmission, and voila! My hvac routing switch is working like a champ. I guess the "coffee can" works after all, and maybe the check valve is incorporated into that set up.

The coffee can is mounted on the exterior side of the firewall right about where the steering column is on the inside of the cabin. It can be accessed from the hatch on the front side of the vehicle, but not from the doghouse opening. I'll try and get pics up soon.

Quote:
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Also you mention that the AC has been removed. Are you referring to the compressor or the whole thing?

I have a 75 24' that I'm going to be dismantling for parts this winter and I'm pretty sure it has the complete AC system still installed.

Brad


The '75 you're dismantling is probably the exact same rig I've got. It would be interesting to compare, especially since Argosies were such testing grounds for Airstream and vary so much, even within the same model and year.

The vehicle came to me with no A/C compressor, so I removed the A/C radiator and hoses to make more space and allow for additional air flow to the main rad. From what I've read, the dash A/C is pretty useless for cooling, and while traveling everyone runs the rooftop A/C using the generator anyway.
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