Ben's '78 Argosy thread

[bpg_austin]

Hey everyone. I thought I'd start a thread on my argosy refurb to post everything in one location. I appreciate the warm welcome from this group. Thanks so much.

The old girl passed TX safety inspection over the weekend. While not a terribly daunting task to make sure your brakes/blinkers work.. it does mean I can now transfer the out of state title and pay taxes on the purchase. And.. get a clean TX title in my name. That is a big deal. Thanks to the PO for keeping up the motorhome to a pretty solid mechanical level! The wife and I were ecstatic to cross this hurdle. Heading out the the DMV today to get some new plates.

Question: Anyone know the best source for new side and rear window seals? Ours are completely toast. Crusty and dry rotted to the point the windows jostle around over every bump. I can probably use the shop vac to suck them out they're so broken. Thanks.
Will get some pictures up this weekend when I dive into the brakes.

Ben

[mprokop87]

I think this is what you are looking for, but hard to tell form the tiny picture. It would be worth giving them a call. Out Of Doors Mart will become one of your friends while you own an Airstream.

http://odmrv.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=81&products _id=1302

I had to replace mine because my windows were doing the same thing. I still have 3 more to do this summer, just waiting for a little warmer weather to do it in. The process isnt too hard but the first window will be a royal pain. Here is how I did it (maybe not the 100% right way but it worked!

1. Cut out all of the old seals, remove the windows and screens, and clean out the channels.

2. Since you have your windows out, clean them good. I used this rubber gloves to put them back in and avoid finger prints.

3. Measure the length of seal you will need and cut a peice with a few inches of slack just incase your measurements are off.

4. Start laying the seal at the top of the window frame. If the slider window normally sits closed on the right side of the window, just and in or two to the LEFT of top center. Just the opposite if it normally sits closed on the left side. This allows room to easily put the window pain back in.

5. Lay the track/seal in the channel down the side, along the bottom and part way up the other side. Position the remaining material so its out of your way.

6. Grab you window or screen, and place it in the frame on the side where there is no seal along the top. Slip the top of the window in first and the push the bottom of the window into the seal. Slide the window/screen to the other side of the frame, aligning it into track thats already in place.

7. Finish laying the seal and trim off any excess. Depending on how far off from center you started, you may have to shove some of the seal over the window/screen. I place the seal in the channel just behind the glass and took a pair of pliers and pulled it while sliding the window in the same direction, I just had to move it an inch or two.

8. You aren't done yet. Take a small grinder or cutoff tool and cut a small slot on the bottom of the channel where the outside drains are. This will let any water drain outside rather than inside the RV.

[mprokop87]

I edited my post because I gave you the wrong link. The current link should send you to the right page for the window channel schlegle.

[bpg_austin]

Odmrv looks like a great source. Much appreciated. Sounds like a chore to replace these things.
Adding to the list..

BG

[bpg_austin]

No pics yet, but the new rear main seal/oil pan gasket job is underway.
This is a mess of a job. Tranny has to be pulled back, and possibly taken out completely. (keep you posted, going to find out tonight after work). Then the motor mounts need to be unbolted so the engine can be jacked up enough to pull the oil pan out. This is a big, messy, oily job. But, hopefully one that doesn't need to be done for another 20 years, or until the 454 needs a rebuild.

Currently the trans is unbolted and ready to be slid back, oil pan is loose and linkages etc. are all disconnected.

[bpg_austin]

No pics yet, it was dark plus a few hours when I wrapped things up last night. Trans is pulled back enough now to gain access to the flywheel bolts. Frustrating, but great progress last night.

Question: Is this a factory speaker grill? On ours, there are two of them, one on the exterior wall located above each bed. One side had the cover and one side did not. We actually like them and are looking for another one if it is a factory piece. Any help appreciated here. Thanks.

Ben

[bpg_austin]

OIL PAN REMOVAL. If anyone has fully completed this job please chime in! I've been fighting this for a few days now. Trans is fully disconnected, flywheel off, passenger motor mount disconnected as well as front steering drag link. I can jack up the engine a few inches but it isn't enough at this time. I'm thinking the drivers side MM needs to be pulled also, and the entire engine lifted. Not fun as it'll basically be floating on a jack, or jacks. Time to call in reinforcements and get some bribery beer. This definately looks like a 2 man job to make sure nothing hits up top while the engine is lifted. I wasn't going to to motormounts but have changed my plan. There doesn't seem to be any reason not to since things are broken down this far.
The problem is the oil pick-up tube at the rear of the bottom end on the engine. The pick-up sits so ridiculously low in the pan..
So, I'll be jacking the entire engine up in the coming days as my next course of action. I'd love some tips from someone who's successfully completed this job. I've scoured the net and haven't really found any decent (or successful!) write-ups.
Help appreciated!

Ben

[mprokop87]

It sure sounds like you have quite the project going there. I have yet to have a need to pull my oil pan but I will definitely be contacting you if I ever do!

[bpg_austin]

Finally some progess (and some pics). I had to call for reinforcements. My buddy came over to help with the hoist set-up. In order to get the engine high enough to drop the oil pan out the bottom, you simply have to hoist it from the inside. We decided against tryin to jack from the bottom. Too much weight on the oilpan and we definately did not want to jack on the harmonic balancer. This set-up, although kind of crude, was very effective. A simple harbor freight come-a-long was used to pick up the engine about 3" to get the pan out. A bonus: EASY to change out motormounts at this time. So we did. I highly recommend the lifting plate seen in the picture. It bolts to the carb mounting bolts. (5/16" bolts). It does seem a bit scary to lift 700lbs with these 4 bolts, but its well within the lifting limits of the plate and thread strength.

So, pan comes out, oil pump is pulled and main cap is off. Old seal came out easy and new seal slid in with ease. We're starting to clean things up now and get ready for assembly. I did not have the right gasket sealer for the bearing halves, so had to quit last night. Hopefully another few nights of wrenching will see this project finished. It is a LOT of work. But, would have been easier without the trial and error. If anyone reads this post in the future, please go strait to setting up your engine hoist.
Here are a few pics from along the way. More to come when I start zipping things up. Massive rain here in Central TX for the next week, so progress will be limited.
Oh, I'm also doing the valve cover gaskets since its all accessible right now. The AC compressor has to be unbolted to get enough jacking height on the engine. While its out is the only time you can do the drivers side valve cover. Otherwise AC is in the way. A good 'while your'e in there' item.

Ben

[bkahler]

Ben,

It's amazing how much weight those little plates will hold isn't it! I've used one of those plates to pull two engines from an Argosy and a 345. It looks so flimsy but it sure does work.

Did you see any scoring on the crank from the old seal?

As to your question about the speaker grille, I've not seen one like that on early Argosies or the mid 80s 310s & 345s. Hard to say where it came from.

Brad

[bpg_austin]

Hey Brad. Still downpouring here in Austin. When I'm out there next I'll take a look for crank scoring as I didn't last time. Nothing is zipped up tight yet. I've been impressed with the internals so far though. Main bearing half and crank journal looked really good as well as valves (no carbon build-up). Good note to check the main. Thanks.

Going to move on with the speakergrill. Inland RV as well as OODM had none available. I guess that's the same as telling me its not an airstream part. I think my wife even posted on the FB group with no luck. Off to amazon to find some modern replacements I guess. Dang, we really liked whatever it was that was installed....

Thanks again.
BG

[mprokop87]

Yes, you wife did post on Facebook! I remember seeing the picture come across my news feed not that long ago. I have 4 speakers in my Argosy that you're welcome to if you want. I want to put in modern equipment at some point, once I get to that point, you can have 'em! Ill try to take a picture if I remember.

[bpg_austin]

mprokop87. Thanks! PM sent.

[bpg_austin]

Good and not so good news in this post..
HEY. Oilpan is all zipped up. Got the BMF torque wrench and snugged the bearing cap down to 100ft/lbs (2 bolt main), and snugged the oil pump back in. No troubles there. I purchased a nice rubber Fel-pro oilpan gasket to reinstall. Here's a tip I guess: the gasket is much thicker than the OEM cork unit. Start at the center when installing the pan bolts again and work your way out. Both the front and rear ends did not want to thread. Sure seemed like the bolts were too short. Did I missplace some longer oilpan bolts somewhere? WHY won't these final bolts go in? (scratch head for an hour...) Then, I started snugging things up, working my way insided to out. Beyond the 11 ft/lbs they specify I'm sure. Turns out the pan has a ways to go before it really seats well, especially the ends where the rubber is thickest. Eventually I did get them all in, just took some putzing around. Easy enough though. So.. FINALLY, the bottom end is zipped up.
Motormounts/flywheel/trans tonight with the help of my buddy again.
also pulled the oil filter housing to replace the gasket underneath. Seems this is also a likely item that leaks and is mistaken for an RMS leak. Its a 5 dollar gasket and easy to change. (2 hex head bolts).

And, the bad news.. I had my shopvac in the motorhome to vacuum and generally clean up the interior mess. So, I decided to grab my flathead screwdriver and scrap around on top of the intake manifold to dislodge some caked on dirt. Nothing too serious, then use the shopvac to suck up the debris. No big deal, right? Sigh.. Turns out I poked a hole in the passenger side intake manifold gasket. You can see right through to the valve cover bolt! While this doesn't appear to be into the waterjacket, its apparently time to pull the intake off and throw in some new gaskets. They're 15 bucks.. and the carb etc. is already off.. Geez.. So, once the engine is again sitting on its mounts, I'll drain the coolant and start on the intake. (I will not change out head gaskets While I'm in there, I will not change out head gaskets while I'm in there..)
The picture makes it look worse than it really is. In fact, I suppose I could squirt some gasket maker in there and be fine for a while. But, I'm really not interested in a top end coolant leak while on the road. Especially since its so accessible right now. The joys of a 36 yr old engine.
3 months until a hopeful Minnesota road trip. Gotta keep moving along.

Ben

[Kevininwa]

Looks great, you are getting there. I'm thinking about re-doing my radiator and am worried about some of the 36 year old bolts. It is good to see someone tackling the engine without (too much) difficulty. I've encountered older (printing) machinery at work and it seems less aggravating when I'm getting paid to drill out and helicoil cantankerous fittings. Of course, having my wife asking me which pillow matches the seat cushions better while I'm under the moho trying to insert a front air bag is always a treat.

I did not find the post stating your reason for pulling the oil pan- just a leak, or something more?

[bpg_austin]

Hey Kevin. Thanks. Love the multi-tasking while-under-motorhome story! My wife does the same! Also, my 16 month old crawled under the Moho last night while I was trying to line up motormounts.. Just smile at me and smear grease all over himself. Gotta love it all.

Sorry, I guess I didn't talk about why dropped the pan. Just leaking. When I bought the motorhome there were a few major mechanical things I wanted to get done right away. The underside by the flywheel had a thick nasty layer of oil build-up all over it and was leaking pretty bad from the RMS. I went through a quart and 1/4 of oil on my 750 mile drive home. I'm sure the engine could have burnt some of it, but there was an oil slick running down the back of the trans, down the driveshaft... All starting from the RMS area. It needed to be done. I added a host of 'while-you're'-in-there' items. But, I'm hoping to have a mostly dry undercarriage for a few years after this. As well as not go through nearly as much oil. That's all. The 454 seems to be strong otherwise.
Motormounts had some weather checking but were actually still OK. Transmission mount was Toast. Basically metal to metal on the crossframe.

Sounds like you get to have fun on your job, working on printing equipment. Agreed, its always better when you can get paid for it.

[bpg_austin]

update: Regarding the hole in the upper intake manifold gasket. Its for a heat riser system. Basically a passive intake warming system (casting cavity) that passes from the heads into/thru the lower intake under the carb. This is a non-pressurized, non-wet cavity. Just takes passive heat from the heads and warms the intake faster during cold starts. The waterjacket holes are quite a ways from this part of the gasket and there is zero immediate need to change out the gaskets for now. Basically hotrodders use a block-off plate when rebuilding becuase these don't serve a real purpose in modern engines. Good for me at this time as I don't have to pull the intake. I'll save this job for a cold, rainy weekend sometime down the road when we don't have any immediate travel plans. Took a bit of internet forum poking around to figure this one out. My list just got that much shorter.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by bpg_austin

My list just got that much shorter.

Wow...I'm jealous, I don't think I've ever had my list get shorter...!

[Gregsch]

Nice work on the RMS! Those speaker grills look just like the ones in my 1979 AS 24' MH. I'm with Brad on the list situation. Every time I sit down to review my completion list it seems like I add 3 items for every one I check off.

[bpg_austin]

Rain Rain Rain here in Central Texas. I think this is the wettest May I've seen in the past 13 years here.. Not too conducive to either painting the inside or wrenching underneath.. None the less, nearly completely zipped up on the RMS job. Still have a few items to reassemble before firing her up for the first time in a month. Lets HOPE for no leaks..
Gregsch, if you are able I'd appreciate a picture of that speaker grill. We've about given up on it, but haven't ordered new speakers yet. A model year would help in the search if its the right part!

As for a shorter list.. well.. I'm working hard to focus on the things that have to be done to get her on the road in modest comfort and functionality. And gritting my teeth at the things I'd Like to do, but will put off for later. #1 goal is to use it.. #2 goal will be to fix the pesky things as they come up. I've had so many car projects that have stretched way too long because of WYIT syndrome. At least that's the goal.