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Old 04-18-2005, 09:43 AM   #81
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1973 27' Overlander
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Dennis, Yes, this is a matter of "as long as I'm there". I will be replacing all of the plywood. Just seems to make sense.


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Old 05-06-2005, 06:11 PM   #82
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New stuff

Just so you all donít think Iíve been a ďslackerĒ on the Monte, my plan this weekend is to go ahead a pull the belly pan. Iíve found some welding that needs to be done on the outriggers forward of the wheel wells. Once I get the belly pan off, additional work may be needed on the rear frame as well. So far though, the rust on the rear seems to be minor.

A couple of questions. Iíve read a bunch about folks replacing the belly pan. My belly pan doesnít seem to be damaged too badly. Just some dents and dings from the road, for the most part. There are some missing rivets around the wheel wells that Iím guessing are from vibration, which I will deal with later (the vibration, I mean). But all in all, it looks to be in good shape. The only real exception to this is the torrent of water that leaks in around the ďbeltlineĒ. Iím assuming that this will be cured when I close the pan back around the bottom and Sikaflex everything well.

Anyway, as always, I appreciate your views. One more thing. I bought a new tow vehicle this week. Well, new to me. Itís a í98 Ford F150, 5.4 litre, automatic tranny with 129,000 miles. The other truck is a í97 F150, V6, manual, hence the need for a new TV. I towed the trailer back from North Carolina where we bought it, with the old truck, back in November. It actually did very well for a truck with a V6, except, of course in the mountains. The difference in the towing capacity is 3200 lbs versus 6200 lbs, which is right about where I need to be with the Overlander. The strange part is that, cosmetically, they look almost the same from the outside. But the ďnewĒ truck rides and handles like a dream, and has MUCH more power. The picture below is of the old truck. Please pardon the shameless pitch to sell Girl Scout cookies on the windows, we had about 20 cases left over this year for some reason. Take care.



Jim

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Old 05-07-2005, 11:24 AM   #83
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The water coming in along the beltline area basically needs an application of sealer under the beltline. I thought that the belly pan and/or banana wrap should be under the upper skin there but that is often not the case.

Congratulations on the new vehicle.

Malcolm
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Old 05-07-2005, 05:46 PM   #84
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Tried to post a new thread, no success. Wanted to ask for photos of renovations done to the bath, especially the mirror area. Also would like to see other ideas in the kitchen. My husband and I are starting on our 1978 24ft Argosy, but we are at a loss as to what to do with that bathroom mirror that looks pretty bad. Big problem is there is an outlet behind the mirror, so we don't really want to mount it flush against the wall. Can't find the wiring for the outlet, it must be behind the end cap, so moving it to another location looks like a big job. I know some of you have taken everything out, which makes us look pretty lazy. Just don't think this trailer needs that much work and don't think we are that talented either. Pictures of ideas is what we need. Anyone out there with pictures, please post. Judy and Bob
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Old 05-08-2005, 09:05 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malconium
The water coming in along the beltline area basically needs an application of sealer under the beltline. I thought that the belly pan and/or banana wrap should be under the upper skin there but that is often not the case.

Malcolm
Malcolm, that is exactly the problem with my coach. The belly pan overlaps the the upper skin. I don't have it all apart yet, but if there was ever Vulkem in there to stop the leaks, it is long gone. The bad part is that this will be a real pain to "close back up". Oh well, that's way it goes some days.

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Old 05-08-2005, 09:06 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juel
Tried to post a new thread, no success. Wanted to ask for photos of renovations done to the bath, especially the mirror area. Also would like to see other ideas in the kitchen. My husband and I are starting on our 1978 24ft Argosy, but we are at a loss as to what to do with that bathroom mirror that looks pretty bad. Big problem is there is an outlet behind the mirror, so we don't really want to mount it flush against the wall. Can't find the wiring for the outlet, it must be behind the end cap, so moving it to another location looks like a big job. I know some of you have taken everything out, which makes us look pretty lazy. Just don't think this trailer needs that much work and don't think we are that talented either. Pictures of ideas is what we need. Anyone out there with pictures, please post. Judy and Bob
Juel, I can probably help you out some here with pics. Another post to follow. Jim
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Old 05-08-2005, 09:34 PM   #87
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I don't know if this helps any. The first pic is of the aft section of the trailer just before I removed the walls (and mirror/shelving unit in the bath). The 110v wiring in the bath mirror area is mounted underneath and just to the right of the mirror. You can see a light or drill plugged into it in this pic. The second pic is of the outlet itself. You'll notice that ther are two pieces of romex at the oulet. One feeds the outlet from the breaker panel. The other piece loops back out of the oulet goes across the ceiling and down the curside wall to feed the Univolt which sits underneath, or behind the shower/bath (pic #3). Hope this helps.
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Old 05-14-2005, 08:55 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malconium
The water coming in along the beltline area basically needs an application of sealer under the beltline. I thought that the belly pan and/or banana wrap should be under the upper skin there but that is often not the case.
Malcolm, I finally made a little more progress today. Here are a couple of pics of the beltline area on my TT. It's no wonder it leaks like a seive. There are gaps all along the beltline, no Vulkem at all, and the belly wrap does fold over the top of the upper body skin. I'll have more latter.

Jim
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Old 05-15-2005, 12:52 AM   #89
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Jim,

That looks pretty much like what I was finding too. I put a good bead of Vulkem along the joint before I put the belly band back on. Places where I replaced the banana wrap I put some under the edge of the banana wrap before I rivited it back on. I still don't entirely understand why it is this way. There really was nothing in place to keep water from leaking into the belly pan area.

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Old 05-15-2005, 02:34 AM   #90
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Let me get this straight...

Jim and Malcolm,

Am I correct in reading your posts that on the outer skins that the lowest panel of the wrap is overlapping the next higher panel? Each successive panel should overlap the one below on the outside and the exact opposite should be true on the inside...at least to my way of thinking. In this manner all of the leaks could be minimized excepting for those that crept up the inner side of the outer skin. Additionally, any water that did find its way past the outer skin would have a difficult time penetrating the inner skins.

I am reading these posts with interest and getting ready for my 'monte. Keep up the good work...
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Old 05-15-2005, 08:33 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceKing02
Jim and Malcolm,

Am I correct in reading your posts that on the outer skins that the lowest panel of the wrap is overlapping the next higher panel? Each successive panel should overlap the one below on the outside and the exact opposite should be true on the inside...at least to my way of thinking. In this manner all of the leaks could be minimized excepting for those that crept up the inner side of the outer skin. Additionally, any water that did find its way past the outer skin would have a difficult time penetrating the inner skins.
Iceman, yes you are correct on both counts. Your theory on overlapping is logically correct. The problem is that the shell is mated to the frame and then the belly pan is added afterword. That is what I tried to depict in post number 88 above. The first pic is taken while standing back from the TT a few feet. The second is a closeup of the overlap area. The overlapping piece is from the belly pan. You can clearly see the gaps where water pouring in. Good luck with yours and welcome to the forums.

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Old 05-15-2005, 09:10 PM   #92
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Well, I finally made some progress over the weekend. I got all of the belly pan off forward of the water tank. Looks like itís about time to order some POR-15. A few pics below. Several of the outriggers have damage on the bottom portion. I think Iím going to attempt PizzaChopís solution to this problem, namely, welding angle to the bottom part of the piece.
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Old 05-16-2005, 10:43 PM   #93
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I am a bit confused by this picture. The frame members seem unnaturally close to the grass. Is it that low? Did you cut out these frame pieces?

I'm also looking at your earlier photos and I can't really visualize where your water tank is.

Please pardon my ignorance, these questions may seem stupid. I'm interested in your project, since we are working on similar efforts...

Mary
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Old 05-17-2005, 05:43 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireflyinva
I am a bit confused by this picture. The frame members seem unnaturally close to the grass. Is it that low? Did you cut out these frame pieces?

I'm also looking at your earlier photos and I can't really visualize where your water tank is.

Please pardon my ignorance, these questions may seem stupid. I'm interested in your project, since we are working on similar efforts...

Mary
Mary, The frame members are in their correct places and still on the trailer. The grass illusion is probably just a matter of camera perspective. My point in showing these pics was to give some idea of the amount of rust on these particular members (and therefor the amount of work needed to repair them).

The water tank is just forward of the axles, underneath the floor. I'll try to post a few pics of that area tonight.

BTW, I don't think there is anything such as a stupid question! Thanks for your interest in my project.

Jim
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Old 05-17-2005, 06:48 AM   #95
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Is this belly on top a 70's method? I didn't think they made them that way. both of mine the belly panels go up under the shell. Could it have been replaced in the past by cutting of the old belly and setting up the new one on top because they couldn't get it under the shell. Please take a peek at the edge of the shell and look of an extra layer of aluminumumum.
Anyone know that this was factory at one time. All the pictures I've seen show the belly on before the shell.
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Old 05-17-2005, 07:10 AM   #96
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Looking at trailers, it does look like there was a shift in how they attached the bellypan, I suppose late in the 60s. Your bellypan will probably be like ours, since there were substantial similarities in construction between 59 and 61. Ours is a little trickier--if you loosen the belly pan, you are removing a rivet that holds it to the shell and the U channel. In turn, that channel connects to the flooring and the steel frame. It's a complex clamshell arrangement.

I started detatching my bellypan and the result was not pretty. As the case may be, it really didn't matter--we had to open the whole thing up anyways--and now its held back in place by clecos.

From a purely structural perspective, it appears that it is much safer to open the trailer up from the inside. It may not seem as easy, but long run, it appears to make life much simpler for addressing problems under the floor.

It seems that they resolved this by reconfiguring the bellypan issue later on. At some point, it stops having a structural function, making repairs easier. It also seems that it may have led to leaks (there appears to be no reason to caulk the joint on the earlier trailers).

Mary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Over59
Is this belly on top a 70's method? I didn't think they made them that way. both of mine the belly panels go up under the shell. Could it have been replaced in the past by cutting of the old belly and setting up the new one on top because they couldn't get it under the shell. Please take a peek at the edge of the shell and look of an extra layer of aluminumumum.
Anyone know that this was factory at one time. All the pictures I've seen show the belly on before the shell.
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Old 05-17-2005, 07:44 AM   #97
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Mary...
Did you replace the window cranks? I have six of these windows on a 59 and will need 12 new cranks. I think 59 and 61 are the same hardware.
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Old 05-17-2005, 07:48 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Over59
Is this belly on top a 70's method? I didn't think they made them that way. both of mine the belly panels go up under the shell. Could it have been replaced in the past by cutting of the old belly and setting up the new one on top because they couldn't get it under the shell. Please take a peek at the edge of the shell and look of an extra layer of aluminumumum.
Anyone know that this was factory at one time. All the pictures I've seen show the belly on before the shell.

Yes, its a "70's" thing. the belly pan is just a flat sheet underneath the frame. there is another seperate piece commonly referred to as "banana wrap" that covers the outriggers and is riveted to the shell at the top end, and to the underside of the frame on the other. there are actually mulitple pieces of this banana wrap that extend varying distances. take a close look at some 70's trailers and you'll see seams in various places where they overlap.

the funny thing is that some of them attach outside the shell, as in the "Jim and Susan" pics above, but others slip under the shell. I can't imagine why they did this, but they did. and I think Malcom reported the same finding on his project. anyway, some of them are water scoops, and others aren't...can't tell which is which because the joint between the shell and the banana wrap is covered by a trim molding. I had the back end of mine apart last spring, and the wrap on one side was under the shell...on the other, it was over the shell. go figure.
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Old 05-17-2005, 08:45 AM   #99
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The 70's were a confused time. Prehaps Airstream was experimenting with personal growth self expression management style. They didn't want to upset anyone by telling them how to do their job. From some of the Q reports I see they may still be experimenting.
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Old 05-17-2005, 09:10 AM   #100
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Quote:
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Yes, its a "70's" thing....he belly pan is just a flat sheet underneath the frame....the funny thing is that some of them attach outside the shell, as in the "Jim and Susan" pics above, but others slip under the shell.....anyway, some of them are water scoops, and others aren't...can't tell which is which because the joint between the shell and the banana wrap is covered by a trim molding.... I had the back end of mine apart last spring, and the wrap on one side was under the shell...on the other, it was over the shell. go figure.
Which is why it is SO important to make sure the trim and molding are sealed properly.....along with all of the skin seams and window/door/other penetrations.
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