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Old 04-21-2009, 09:25 AM   #641
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1973 27' Overlander
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You did a great job on that WH door. Looks fabulous. If you have the time, I'd like to see how you laid out the water lines in the back. I have seen Brian's (Lothlorian's) set up and even took a few pictures of it. WHat I should have done is diagram out what he did so that I can simply duplicate his work. If you don't have the time, that's cool. Brian lives nearby and I can probably swing by his place some time soon. He takes beer (or a fine cigar) as a form of payment for advice.

Jim
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:34 AM   #642
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Hey Brian, looks like you just made "rivet master". Congrats. Talk to you soon.

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Old 04-21-2009, 11:49 AM   #643
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1966 20' Globetrotter
Central , Illinois
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original piping

Thanks for the compliment on the door, I really did try to figure out a way to keep the original stainless door and retrofit it to the new Atwood, but I did not see a way to make it as weather resistant as the new door.

Once I made the decision to "clad" the new door, it just took being careful with the new cutouts and was not that difficult. Fortunately I had everything laid out before I mixed the epoxy, because it does have a short working time.

I have split this into two posts, with the first one being pictures of the original piping.

The first picture is where the water enters the trailer and goes into the brass fitting, which is the pressure regulator. In hindsight, I should have tossed it, it doesn't regulate well, and if it does have a backflow prevention component, that doesn't work well either. I now use an in-line regulator on the supply hose outside. The small shiny cap under the alleged regulator is the top of the pressure relief valve.

The second picture is a closer shot that shows the hot and cold water drain valves. You can see the drain line from the pressure relief valve, it's the black plastic pipe with the big kink in it. I replaced that with a copper line so I could get a smooth bend down to the outlet. The big red handles are on gate valves that needed repacking. They got replaced with ball valves that drain the lines much, much faster and don't clog up.

The third picture shows the cold water inlet and hot water outlet to the water heater. The small line coming off the inlet with the red-handled gate valve used to go to the toilet. The installation instructions for the new toilet (my wife was surprised I actually did read them) recommended a 1/2" supply liine, so I put in a "tee" directly off the cold inlet directly behind the toilet and put a new shut-off valve there.

The fourth picture shows that water heater opening after I put in the new floor. You can see the hole for the gas line is only a couple inches from the opening, that had to change with the new unit. Sorry the picture is a little out of focus, the ballasts in the lights in the warehouse I was working in apparently created issues for the camera.

The next post will show new piping.
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Old 04-21-2009, 11:53 AM   #644
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lost pictures

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Old 04-21-2009, 12:11 PM   #645
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Hi guys:

Those pictures of the plumbing and the holes in your floor remind me of my trailer last year. Mac I am very familiar with Bloomington Illinois. I grew up in Joliet. I went to SIU (Ag major) I have been to funk seeds in Bloomington. I was up there in February and froze my *%&$ off.

Jim:

I did not know I made it to the highest level. High honor for a guy who did not know what rivet was last year. Now I know. I will try to make it over this weekend to check out your rig. I will call you tonight. I need to plan a weekend to pull my airconditioner. I have a place to do it in Loganville. The guy has a bucket so I don't have to climb up on top. I am hoping I can make it work

Brian
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Old 04-21-2009, 12:29 PM   #646
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new piping

OK, now new piping. I wanted to make some basic changes to the old piping. First item was to replace all old gate valves with new ball valves. Second item was to install shut-off valves for the shower and sink where none had been before. Third was to put in separate drain lines for the hot water, cold water, and pressure relief valve. They were combined before which made no sense to me. The last item was to put pipe insulation on all hot water pipes (none before), when you only have either 6 or 10 gallons of hot water, it seemed a no-brainer to minimize line loss, at minimal cost.

Now for the pictures. The installation is fairly, but not totally complete when I took the pictures, I added more insulation all around.

The first picture shows the new back layout, with the shut-off valves for the sink and shower and new drain lines and valves. I fed the shower lines from the back rather than the front (as originally done) so I could access the valves. One of the pictures in the previous postings shows the shower valve installed.

The second picture shows the water heater. You can just see the 1/2" stub out for the toilet, the valve hasn't been installed yet. One thing I could have done at this point is put in a by-pass pipe and valves between the hot and cold lines. This would allow someone to winterize by putting anti-freeze in the water pipes and they would not have to fill up the water heater. I choose to do a complete drain-down for winterizing, but other people like the anti-freeze.

The next pictures apply if you go with a 6 gallon heater. Since the 6 gallon is shorter than the 10, a patch has to go either at the top or bottom of the opening. I put in a platform for the heater so I could hide the patch behind the rub rail.

The third picture shows the new platform. You can't see the slight slope on the platform top, but since the sides of our '74 slope in at the rub rail, the side flanges on the new heater fit better against the trailer sides.

The fourth picture shows the new gas line, and flashing and counter flashing. If water gets under or around the water heater, it won't get into the belly pan.

I am not sure if I can fit in another picture, but if I can, it's the new heater installed before the rub rail was replaced.

Please let me know if you have any questions, I hope at least some of this is helpful. This is our first trailer and remodel, so I am sure there are lots of other ways to this sort of thing.

Laird
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Old 04-21-2009, 12:48 PM   #647
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how cold?

Hey Brian, I hope you weren't here in Bloomington when it was 22 degrees below zero. I moved here from Oklahoma in '94 and I am still not used to the winter. Summers aren't that bad, but we will be moving South some day.

Laird
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Old 04-21-2009, 02:16 PM   #648
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Absolutely this is helpful! You do very nice work, I might add. Nice clean looking install. I have a couple of questions for you, but it's going to be a couple of hours before I can get to them. I'll get back to you.

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Old 04-21-2009, 03:49 PM   #649
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Hey Laird, back from work. I have to limit internet surfing at work, especially these days. A couple of observations a couple of questions.

Brian oriented the feed line to the shower valve the same way you did. It makes a lot more sense, IMHO, to do it that way. As you said, it's easier to get to. You really did a nice job installing all of that new copper. If I had the tools and skills. I'd do the same thing. I'm going with Pex because of the lack of skills and a fellow forum memebr offered to trade me some Pex fittings for my labor on his camper. He got a killer deal on a box full of fittings and a tool. Good trade, I think.

What did you do to the subfloor? Is it painted? I epoxied mine because of all of the water back there. The cover that you have over the p-trap for the shower, did you make that yourself or did you buy that someplace? I'm, trying to figure out a way to cover some of exposed holes back there to keep the dust and air out of the interior.

Well, I'm going to put the vinyl floor down tonight, I hope. Talk to you soon.

Jim
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Old 04-21-2009, 04:59 PM   #650
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questions

Hey Jim, I totally understand, no problem. I actually installed new copper for about half the piping you see, the rest is the old copper cleaned up with steel wool. I went with copper simply because that's what I know how to do, I have no experience with PEX at all. I do think you made a good trade with the PEX, I hear the fittings can be expensive.

On the plywood subfloor, I used two coats of Kilz on the top because I installed cork tile, and that is what was recommended. I carried that all the way to the walls because it seemed like cheap insurance in case of any water intrusion. On the underside of the plywood and on the edges I used a exterior quallity deck sealer, your epoxy application is probably even better.

The plastic piece at the tub/shower trap was part of the trailer originally, only it was underneath the subfloor and just sitting on the fiberglass batt insulation. I had to move it to the underside of the plywood when I installed the tub because there was not enough clearance for the trap otherwise. If your piece went missing, and your can access the subfloor from below, there is a 1/4" thick flexible insulation you can get from a big box and fasten that to the bottom of the subfloor to help seal it up.

Good luck with the vinyl floor installation, I think that is the way to go when you are doing the full monte. I am doing mine in phases, so the tile solution works a little better for me. I don't know if you need to go all the way under the tub, but just getting under the cabinets will keep the edges from curling.

Keep up the good work.

Laird
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Old 04-21-2009, 06:16 PM   #651
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Well, I'm going to put the vinyl floor down tonight, I hope. Talk to you soon.

Jim

That's a really big step, can't wait to see what it looks like!

-Marcus
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Old 04-21-2009, 07:35 PM   #652
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Thanks Marcus. But I only got the vinyl down in the bath tonight. We (Susan) decided that we would put vinyl in the rear bath, carpet in the center bedroom and and we're still debating (arguing over) the kitchen/living room area.

With a little luck, Dad and I will get about 2/3 of the bath finished up this weekend. I'm trying to get all of the pre-work done ahead of time. The bath area in a rear bath has a huge portion of the plumbing and with all that plastic stuff, takes a lot of time to get lined up in and the proper places. I'll update with some pictures on the weekend when we get further along.

Thanks to everybody for the kind words and tips. I'll keep you up to date.

Jim
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Old 04-22-2009, 06:23 AM   #653
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Jim:

Do you still have those pictures I sent you of the red and blue water lines? I just blew those things up and copied them. I have no clue about plumbing but when I started doing that it all started to make sense. Just make sure you keep all your valves in the back. That way you fix things are change out fittings if you need to. If I knew what I was doing I would have it knocked out in no time. It took me longer to look at the pictures and make sure I was copying everything perfectly.

Brian
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Old 04-26-2009, 04:11 PM   #654
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Bath before

Let's try a before and after. What a mess.
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Old 04-26-2009, 04:14 PM   #655
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After

More in a few minutes.
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Old 04-26-2009, 04:51 PM   #656
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A couple of observations.

Pex is really easy to work with. The tool is a little cumbersome, but other than that the installation is smooth and relatively easy. Make sure you have lots of room around the connection you are working on, or the tool will be difficult. The finished product doesn't look nearly as nice as Laird's above, but it gets the job done (I hope ). The tub and water heater aren't set yet so all of the Pex runs aren't complete. Once the tub is set, I'll test for water tight. As I stated earlier, the plumbing is this camper was a mess when we got. Does anybody know if the fresh water pipes are supposed to be secured to the floor/walls/etc? Right now, they are simply secured to the drain system using Velcro tape to keep them somewhat stationary.

We had never connected the black water connections to the drain system. So we had to reinstall the Thetford valve and associated 3" pipes. Unbelievably, no leaks. Question here is: Is the Thetford supposed to be tied down to something other than the black tank? The shop manual has instructions for removing and installing the valve that include "unscrewing the four large screws". I see some screws, but they weren't attached to anything when I got the camper.

All of the rest of the bath is ready to go back in except the water heater and its cabinet. Still haven't got the WH yet. I'm sure I'll think of other stuff as I go along. Many thanks to all those that help coach me along here. Especially laird, Brian and Lee.

Jim
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Old 04-26-2009, 08:19 PM   #657
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A couple of observations.

Pex is really easy to work with. The tool is a little cumbersome, but other than that the installation is smooth and relatively easy. Make sure you have lots of room around the connection you are working on, or the tool will be difficult. The finished product doesn't look nearly as nice as Laird's above, but it gets the job done (I hope ). The tub and water heater aren't set yet so all of the Pex runs aren't complete. Once the tub is set, I'll test for water tight. As I stated earlier, the plumbing is this camper was a mess when we got. Does anybody know if the fresh water pipes are supposed to be secured to the floor/walls/etc? Right now, they are simply secured to the drain system using Velcro tape to keep them somewhat stationary.

We had never connected the black water connections to the drain system. So we had to reinstall the Thetford valve and associated 3" pipes. Unbelievably, no leaks. Question here is: Is the Thetford supposed to be tied down to something other than the black tank? The shop manual has instructions for removing and installing the valve that include "unscrewing the four large screws". I see some screws, but they weren't attached to anything when I got the camper.

All of the rest of the bath is ready to go back in except the water heater and its cabinet. Still haven't got the WH yet. I'm sure I'll think of other stuff as I go along. Many thanks to all those that help coach me along here. Especially laird, Brian and Lee.

Jim
The freshwater plumbing is typically secured to the walls, or wheel wells, or floors, or wherever necessary, with those tube holders-- the ones that can clamp around a hose or pipe, and then take one screw through the hole to fasten it (or one nail or even one rivet depending on the application). If you care about winterizing, the idea should be to have all of them gently sloping down to one central drain point. Do this for both the cold and hot water sides. Alternatively, you can just blow out the lines with pressurized air when it's time to winterize. Of, if you're not concerned about freezing, then do nothing at all.

Not sure about your black tank on the 70s models. Mine is designed with a brass flange embedded into the bottom of the fiberglass tank. Four theaded rods screw into threaded openings in that flange, and then the Thetford valve slipped over those threaded rods, and washers and nuts were applied to the bottom to hold the valve tightly against the tank.

Nice progress this weekend, keep it up!

-Marcus
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Old 06-10-2009, 06:57 PM   #658
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Man, I have got to speed this process up somehow. Finally got the plumbing moving along. Had a setback because of leaks. You can read about here, if you're an insomniac: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f446...ons-51419.html

Pipes are now working properly, tub is set, other things in place. Only have the curb side and back side complete. Still working on the roadside. I'm really happy with the results.

A couple of pics to follow.

Jim
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Old 06-10-2009, 07:09 PM   #659
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Found some really cool looking birch at Lowes the other day. I know, I know birch has been done to death. But stick with me here. Birch in the bedroom and hickory in the galley (I hope). The idea here is to use the finished side of the birch toward the bedroom and paint the bath side. Found a way-cool "pecan" stain to use on it. The red in the stain sets nicely against the blue walls of the bedroom. Maybe doesn't show so well in the photos, but looks wonderful in person.

Jim
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Old 06-11-2009, 06:47 AM   #660
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I like the birch. Are you going to seal the stain with polyurethane? Is it going to be flat, semi gloss or gloss? Anyway you go it will look great.

Lothlorian
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